Ambiant vs Surface temps?

[Vengeance]

Here is a question that I've been curious about for a while, what temps are more important, surface temps or ambiant temps? When people talk about day and night cycle in terms of temps they allways refer to the ambiant air temps. But when people talk about heat gradiants, I assume they are talking about surface temps. So if you are trying to day and night cycle your snake do you only need to lower the ambiant temps or both the ambiant and the surface temps?

I'll use my setup as an example. I allwasy make sure that the surface temps on the hot side are 90 - 95 and I allways make sure that the surface temps on the cool side are 80 - 85. But for ambiant temp I allways get keep it in and around 85 through out the cage. I don't cycle my Ball because I never inteand on useing him in a breeding project. But I am going to be picking up a pair of Ball's that I will be starting a breeding project with and I know day and night cycleing is imparative for breeding purposes. I'm going to create a tempature controlled room where the ambiant air will allways be 84o F and just use 1 UTH to get a hot spot of 90 - 95. But I'm curious to know if when I day and night cycle, does only the ambiant air temp need to change or the surface temps as well?

[Tigergenesis]

I don't worry about ambient. I concentrate on surface/belly temps since that's where the are mostly.

warm=90-95
cool=80-85

I do have a UTH on the warm side and an infrared heat bulb on the cool side (or my temps on the cool side get too low). It just so happens that the light does heat up the ambient temps on the cool side (and probably on the warm side too) - but I still don't worry about it. My BP does go hang out under the heat bulb for a bit some nights - temps under there get to close to 100. But he doesn't seem to mind.

[BoidKeeper]

What ever the surface temp is on the cool side is your ambiant air temp provided you don't have an additional heat source on the cool side. If you're are using an UTH on the hot side then aim for a hot spot of 95. The air above the hot spot will progressive decrease in temp as it rises. However it won't get any colder then you ambiant, which most of the time is the same as the air temp in the room your cage is in.
Ambiant temps are very important for boids that's why a herp room is so great. You can keep the room hotter then you normally would in the other rooms in your house. I set my room to 85 DTH in summer and 80 NTL in summer. In the winter it's 80-82 DTH and 75 NTL while cooling my balls. After copulation I raise the room temp again to about 80 day and night.
What often happens when the snake is kept in a room that is not a herp room the temp in the persons house can drop a lot during the night. I know some rooms in my house go down to 50 in the winter time. If I had a snake in that room I would have to go with heat on both sides of the cage.
For cycling the Sutherlands have their hot spots go down to 85 365 days a year according to day time length. When the sun goes down their helix system drops the basking spots to 85. When the sun comes up the helix system brings the basking spots back up to 95. What they say makes the biggest difference is the ambiant temp difference from summer to winter. In the winter the ambiant air temp in their room drops by 5 degrees compaired to the summer. In the summer their night time ambiant down to 80. So at night their hot spots are 85 and the cool side is 80. During the winter their night time temps are 85 basking and 75 ambiant. They feel this is all that is need to cycle balls and it appears to be working for them. I too think that ambiants play a big role in cycling.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Vengeance]

That's some good info, my cage wasn't really a good example, it a glass tank which I know is horrible for holding temps. My breeding Ball's will be in either rubbermaids or custom built melmane cages haven't decided yet. Right now in my glass tank, without the heating light I have in the cage, the ambiant temps would drop to below the 70's if I just used an UTH. But I won't be useing Fred for breeding so I'm not worried about day and night cycleing. I guess I'll have a better idea on how to get my ambiant temps right once I have the snake room setup.

[Tigergenesis]

After checking, my tank has kind of a criss-cross temp thing going on. Keep in mind I have a UTH on the hot side and an infrared heat lamp on the cool side. My temps are:

Warm surface temps: 90-95
Warm ambient temps: 80's
Cool surface temps: 80-85
Cool ambient temps: up to 100 (the closer to the bulb you get)

Seems to work for me - just more choices for him.

[Vengeance]

What do you keep you Ball in Tiger? I know you've mentioned it before, just can't remember.

[Tigergenesis]

50 gallon breeder glass tank w/ a sliding screen lid. I duct taped the screen (except for where the lights are). This helps with humidity and heat. I found some black duct tape that looks nicer than than the usual grey. During the winter, humidity is so low I had to add a Tropic-Aire Humidifier w/ air pump.

[Vengeance]

Yea, now I remember, it explains the same need for lights for ambiant air temps that I have.