View Full Version : Killing Rabbits
What's the most humane way to kill rabbits? Is CO2 the best choice?
rabbit scream when you co2 them, very unsettling. Drowning I feel takes too long so you are left with few choices.
Piers
beth wallbank
03-25-04, 01:48 AM
OMG........i couldnt do either.
i always heard that breaking the neck was the easiest way.. If you know what you're doing that is.. Personally, i have no skill when it comes to doing it.. And i don;t think there's much you can do to have them NOT squeal..
djc3674
03-25-04, 03:02 AM
If your unable to kill it first you have two choices:
1) Buy a frozen rabbit
or
2) Wack it and let the snake do the rest.
Bighead
03-25-04, 04:08 AM
Guillotine.
BoidKeeper
03-25-04, 06:31 AM
I put the rabbit in a garbage bag and bring it down on a chopping block. As for gas you have to release a small amount in the begining to put them to sleep then increas the gas. Too much gass too fast irratates the resperatory track.
Trevor
sapphire_moon
03-25-04, 07:08 AM
why would you drown anything? That is so cruel and inhumane!
nicola_boulton
03-25-04, 07:45 AM
its not that bad, i like the wacking idea, fast and easy.
M_surinamensis
03-25-04, 09:52 AM
Personally I break the necks, but unlike with rats and mice, it's nowhere near as "easy"
A quick twist with the head in one hand and the body in the other will sometimes do the trick, other times though the head will have to be turned greater than 360 degrees before the animal dies and there is a very audible cracking noise (that can be distinctly felt too, you're applying pressure, then suddenly there's no resistance) that I think would disturb some people. They also seem to be a bit more prone to nosebleeds than rats/mice and, having more blood, this can get a bit messy.
I agree with other posters... if you can't personally deal with this, just buy frozen rabbits.
You hold the rabbit by the ears while the rabbit is on the ground, then you take a club or small bat and hit it on the head right behind the ears.
Or put it in a strong bag and whack it hard against something solid.
hey
if u hold them by thier back legs and let them kick while upside down they break thier own necks
elevation24
03-25-04, 02:48 PM
I am sooo glad I don't keep snakes that require something as large as a rabbit.
T.O-SK8TER
03-25-04, 03:30 PM
Buy frozen, it's cheaper in the long run and not as messy. I just piced up 10 rabbits for 80 bucks at pcpc, great deal!
Davio
KingFfaj
03-25-04, 04:02 PM
you shouldnt put them in a bag as you cant tell which part hits the ground first, blunt traumer is good as long as you hit it in the head
Swing hard blunt trauma works no matter where you hit.
It has been 100% successful for me. (zero suffering)
sapphire_moon
03-25-04, 06:26 PM
Why would you just hold it upside down and kick till it breaks its own neck? Do you realize the kind of terror that; that rabbit probably goes through?
Now THAT is really cruel, throw the rabbit into such a panic that it thrashes around and ends up kill itself.
CONCEPT03
03-25-04, 06:33 PM
use a hilti gun with a small peice of 2x4 on its head, instant, painless, may be messy lol
jadegrasse
03-26-04, 11:07 AM
Cervical dislocation and massive head trauma are the preferred methods. It renders unconscious less then a second kills less than 5 seconds.
In Canada we have legislation for killing methods used for euthanasia. http://www.infurmation.com/investig/fash_vic/wspafa08.htm
These methods must be:
‘Painless, achieve rapid unconsciousness and death, require minimum restraint, avoid excitement, and minimize fear and psychological stress. In addition, whatever technique is used to kill an animal it must be carried out efficiently by a suitable trained, skilled operator. All equipment used must be adequate for the task and be maintained to a high degree’.
And
‘CO and CO2 gassing are permissible under existing USA and Canada slaughter legislation’. BUT CO2 is extremely acrid and unpleasant, causing the nasal membranes to sting and burn. Most people can breathe a 15% concentration but a 50% concentration is a irritant to virtually everyone. It has been found that a concentration of 70% fails to kill within 15 minutes and a 100% concentration renders unconscious in about 19 seconds.102 A concentration of 100% is therefore recommended for use.’
I can never get 100% CO2 and given what the research has shown….I prefer massive head trauma.
Cruciform
03-26-04, 09:10 PM
Interesting info.
The link you provided doesn't actually point to the legislation though.
ChokeOnSmoke
03-26-04, 09:50 PM
The hilti method is pretty savage dont you have to apply a lot of pressure before it will fire?
claycoke11
03-27-04, 12:10 AM
YOU GUYS ARE ALL SICK KILLING RABBITS THATS JUST GROSS AND MEAN AND CRUEL LIKE FEED YOUR SNAKES SOMETHING ELSE. THIS THREAD IS SICK
Claycoke11, there are many species of snake that get to large to feed on rats and mice. They need much larger prey. Why is this any different than the rats, mice, worms, crickets etc.? To me there isn't any.
BoidKeeper
03-27-04, 12:53 AM
I suppose we could try to feed them cats,chickens,bunnies,ducks,
peacocks,pigs,pot-bellied pigs,pigeons,partridges,quail,and guinea hens.
Trevor
Cruciform
03-27-04, 01:05 AM
Claycoke, as devil's advocate, what would you suggest? Some people here like snakes, some like lizards, some like rodents, others like invertebrates.
We can't really say any one species life is worth more or less than others without someone differing in opinion.
At least the conversation focuses on causing the least suffering to the animal.
elevation24
03-27-04, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by BoidKeeper
I suppose we could try to feed them cats,chickens,bunnies,ducks,
peacocks,pigs,pot-bellied pigs,pigeons,partridges,quail,and guinea hens.
Trevor
LOL!! :D :D :D
dbacklover29
03-27-04, 01:25 AM
God, I'm glad I'M not a rabbit!
BoAddict
03-27-04, 02:56 AM
AMEN to im not a rabbit
Ya I think I'm kinda screwed in a way because there's no way in hell that I could do any of those things. The only reason I ask is because suddenly rabbits have become kind of hard to come by in my area. I like rabbits actually and have and do still, keep them as pets. I don't enjoy killing anything and if I personally can avoid it I will. I can manage rats and mice but there's no way I can do a rabbit, especially given the information you guys have all provided. If anyone has a source of frozen rabbits please let me know ASAP. I'm in B.C. .
M_surinamensis
03-27-04, 04:07 AM
I don't enjoy killing anything
I don't think anyone *enjoys* killing feeders, it's simply something which has to be done and there's no sense in doing it wrong. Rabbits can kick... hard. When feeding live prey in captivity you're taking an animal which would normally be ambushed, stressing it, getting it aggitated and uppity and triggering all it's fear responses and then surprising the snake with it. Rabbits are kinda dangerous and should be killed prior to feeding for the health of your snake. Additionally, while constriction is a fairly quick death (It's not just axphyxiation, there's an element of hypertension and heart failure) it's nowhere near as fast or clean as what a human, setting out to be fast and clean, can acchieve.
People who enjoy killing animals are a whole different set of problems... even casually implying that herpers might be in that group is damaging to the hobby as a whole. While herpers may end up being somewhat pragmatic and have a sensible idea of life and death as they figure in nature, it doesn't make the act of prekilling feeders in any way pleasureable... just necessary.
sapphire_moon
03-27-04, 11:32 AM
Why kill rabbits for snake food? Becuase, you would have to feed like 10 rats about 1 lbs to amount to one 10lb rabbit.
As someone else said, there is no way to say what animals life is more prescious than the next.
As for Rats, They are extremely social, and intelligent animals, that CAN be potty trained, learn to come to their names, and can even learn tricks.
I personally don't think I could ever kill a rabbit, it almost kills ME to have to kill rats! You could always find a rabbit farm and buy some rabbits are are all prekilled.
as for someone that sells frozen rabbits...
www.rodentpro.com
Siretsap
03-27-04, 12:27 PM
I know the spca would make more money of they would sell the cats and dogs they put down each day. Could help them have more money and have better enclosures for their rescues...
I would go buy a frozen cat for a big snake or even a frozen dog...
Only problem, is where do you thaw it? on your counter? lolol and it must take quite a long time to thaw. lolol
sapphire_moon
03-27-04, 12:40 PM
ewww can you imagine the smell? if you forgot it!
Siretsap
03-27-04, 12:47 PM
imagine your freezer giving up while you are gone for a week and you come back to see your freeser filled with frozen cats leaking all over the place...
makes you want to move to an other place.
daver676
03-27-04, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Siretsap
imagine your freezer giving up while you are gone for a week and you come back to see your freeser filled with frozen cats leaking all over the place...
makes you want to move to an other place.
*curses at Siretsap, then gives up on the rest of his lunch*
:medpuke:
C.m.pyrrhus
03-27-04, 05:05 PM
YOU GUYS ARE ALL SICK KILLING RABBITS THATS JUST GROSS AND MEAN AND CRUEL LIKE FEED YOUR SNAKES SOMETHING ELSE. THIS THREAD IS SICK
It is simply only nature of the hobby, not sick. Although some people do find them to be great animals, they also make great food items for larger snake species. Regardless of how you feel, they are simply a prey item to larger predators. Be it wild canine, feline, snakes, bears and birds. They can even be bought at the grocery for human consumption. Just have to know how to cook them.
People who enjoy killing animals are a whole different set of problems... even casually implying that herpers might be in that group is damaging to the hobby as a whole. While herpers may end up being somewhat pragmatic and have a sensible idea of life and death as they figure in nature, it doesn't make the act of prekilling feeders in any way pleasureable... just necessary.
This pretty much somes it up. Necessity. It may seem odd to the the average person out in society to kill one (or many) animal to feed another. It is something of necessity for many herpers. Herpers also tend to be those that understand lifes natural roles of life and death. Generally we are natural thinking persons that can understand why it is being done and have not a worry that we are being "evil" or "mentally challanged". It is not done to bring about pride and happiness to see a creature die, but yet to see one thrive and live. How this is not a thought and idea across the whole herp community I have no clue....that is the odd part.
Then there are those that cannot stomach the thought of killing a feeder. Thus this is why we have the frozen foods industry. "From their freezer to yours." If neither of these is possible for you, think about the animal that needs it to survive...then think about why you keep it. Somewhere in there lies your truth. Now go get that bunny....
I wasn't suggesting that anyone here enjoys killing anything. I was simply stating my own feelings. I agree it is a necessary part of the hobby, I'm just not sure how much of it I'm capable of. Sorry to have offended anyone.
Cruciform
03-27-04, 05:34 PM
Kevyn, you didn't say anything to offend anyone. It was clay's, um, less than enthusiastic response to the thread that people have had to clarify their intent to :)
jadegrasse
03-27-04, 09:07 PM
No offence taken here. All predators need to feed on other living or dead things that were once alive. I tried some of those 'snake sausages' they sell in the US and was surprised at the number of snakes that would take them. They say alot of research went in to them. I often wonder what the processing plant looks like. Too bad they don't make 'bunny' size snake sausages. Can you imagine? it would be the size of a small roast!
I wonder how many long term users there are out there using these sausages. and wonder if there are any long term effects on the snakes as many animals that eat whole prey items need the hair just as much as the rest of the animal.
The hair acts as a pipe cleaner for the animals intestines in some spicies of animals and cant seen why snakes would be any different as they do not get any other ruffage in thier diet.
BoidKeeper
03-28-04, 10:47 AM
They're probably as healthy as sausage intended for humans. Just doesn't seem natural enough for me. They eat whole items in the wild, they'll eat whole items while in my care. Also, I raise my food so I always know what they've been fed and what they've been kept on. When someone else is doing it how do you know if they're doing it right? It's not like producing food for human consuption. The rodent producers out there don't have safety and health inspectors coming in to make sure everything is done right. I've wanted to stop producing my own and buy from other people but I just can't trust my collections food to anyone else.
Cheers,
Trevor
sapphire_moon
03-29-04, 12:14 AM
My cousin owns a pet shop in california. he says snakes that come in that has been eating the snake sausages have bacterial infections in their stomaches because the casing of the sausages are really hard for the snakes to digest.
YummyCdnMale
04-01-04, 04:51 PM
I have one reply to this question, I agree buy a frozen rabbit. Where i come from they are the same price dead or alive don't you think having the "dirty deed" already done is worth a couple of bucks more?! Atleast we are the ones sleeping tonight LOL!!!
johnf45069
04-03-04, 06:24 PM
i say put the rabbit in a big black trash bag pull it tight and hit the rabit over the head with a hammers or big book
testdrivehemi
04-03-04, 09:38 PM
I keep a number of large pythons they are all fed fresh killed or frozen-thawed prey,and they are all fed large rats,guinea pigs and rabbits, don't want to sound crude,but clubbing them in back of the ears hard enough to break the spine seems to be the best way,guess if you can't see yourself clubbing bunnies ,well get yourself a cornsnake.....or a budgie :)) just joking take care
Originally posted by C.m.pyrrhus
It is simply only nature of the hobby, not sick. Although some people do find them to be great animals, they also make great food items for larger snake species. Regardless of how you feel, they are simply a prey item to larger predators. Be it wild canine, feline, snakes, bears and birds. They can even be bought at the grocery for human consumption. Just have to know how to cook them.
I find a spit on the bbq works best.
as for the snake sausages, i've heard (i can't establish this as fact) that they are high in soy content.
C.m.pyrrhus
04-04-04, 02:05 PM
I personnaly feel that anything that is processed or manufactured is just a backwards way at feeding animals. Even for the basic personal consumption of processed food is wrong, just more widely accepted by us. I do like the processed cheese, tastes good. But not as good as a block of sharp cheddar, brie or blue cheese.
All of these snake sausages, Iguana and Bearded Dragon pellets and so on are simply just a waste IMO. Why not take the time to get the natural food for these animals? I mean why go through all the problems to give your Bearded Dragon dry colored pellets that look like reptile cereal without the milk? Why not just buy crickets and foliage? Is it cool or something, am I missing something here? Who cares if they are 'nutritionally complete', or that the guy with herp experience at the register says his animal do great on them.... I see it as simple waste of time and resources. If you have a hard time feeding animal matter, do not purchase the animal. Easy as that. If you hate to deal with crickets..then your in the wrong hobby. Take up HO scale railroading, it is a blast.
jungleguy
04-04-04, 02:19 PM
i feed my snake live mice i mean besides the own human opinion of it being wrong is there any thing wrong with it...i mean for the snake itself...i cant get my carpet to eat a dead pinky to save my life
C.m.pyrrhus
04-04-04, 02:34 PM
Live rodents have sharp lil' teeth. That is the basic reason we recommend that live rodents to be a last option. Nearly any snake can be switched over to dead prey as well, some just may take a ton of work is all. Stuned prey is certainly an option over offering full out live prey. Taking a rodent, pissing it off, freaking it out and throwing it in a small area to an animal that may not be hungry is a bit risky. Feeding snakes in captivety is not like they would naturally feed in the wild, so some changes are adapted to fit captive needs.
I know many folks that use live prey, but these are seasoned herpers who know what to look for and have been keeping herps for several years. Just that the average keeper is not going to know what to look for, or any basic general feeding knowledge.
YummyCdnMale
04-05-04, 08:54 PM
I have a Yellow Rat Snake that won't eat any mice that are dead. I have tryed real hard to but she just won't. Before i let her starve i think it's best to give in to her needs... Works well with the wife as well LOL P.s I don't think it's wrong to give live!
thats our problem,i have to give my ball python live rats!theres no way in hell she'll eat dead,we tried many times,we just watch,to make sure..but when we put the rat in,before it can take 3 steps its gone..
as for killing rabbits,i cant kill anything,not even a rat or mouse,i have a rabbit named thunder..i love all animals and cant hurt any(thats why i get the guy at reptile amazone to kill the rat for me for my burm :) )
It took me a good while to get up to stunning and then killing my food for my snakes. Now they all take stunned or prekilled. We also just got rabbits wich the 5 we currently have are pets and would never be fed to snakes but their offspring are snake/people food. I do like rabbit either in stew or on a bbq. Killing them is another story glad for this thread, given me a few ideas and since the ones my snakes will be eating will probably only be about 6 weeks old or so I will probably be able to break the neck easily. I will sell them to other herpers but they will have to kill them. As for the ones that will go into my freezer, I'll invite my dad over to take care of the killing, he killed all the ones that were our pets when we were kids they all became dinner. After that we never asked for a dog though, too scared!! :eek:
CONCEPT03
04-22-04, 09:01 PM
you guys talk about all this natural ways of feeding your snakes, i agree but i just missed one thing, who pre kills all the prey for the wild snakes?........ god?
Originally posted by CONCEPT03
you guys talk about all this natural ways of feeding your snakes, i agree but i just missed one thing, who pre kills all the prey for the wild snakes?........ god?
It comes down to the flight or fight mechanism. the prey is better geared for flight and only fights if cornered. Ie when you chase a rabbit it runs away, if you catch it it will struggle and fight for freedom
In the wild the prey isn't captive and has a chance to get away.
in captivity the prey can not get away so it has no choice but to fight.
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