Switching method

[daver676]

I've been try to switch my bp over to rats for about a month now, and nothing seems to be working. She gets all worked up like she wants to eat, but she doesn't seem to recognize the rat (scented with mouse bedding) is food.

I was suggested this method:

Feed her whatever she will eat, then put the head of an unscented rat against the butt of the mouse as she is swallowing, causing her to swallow the rat as well. Eventually she will recognize the rats as food as well. What do you think?

[lostwithin]

That should probably work, unless she’s like my ball who is VERY shy when eating and would stop eating if I started putting your hands in her face. I'm assuming if your just switching her it means she just out grew mice, are you feeding live or f/t??,

What I would do is first of all get a mouse in there first let her eat it too get her feeding responses up, then get the largest rat pup you can find, and put it in with her live, the rat pup might be too small but this way you can leave it alive, without any danger at all too your snake, and if your lucky the fact that her feeding response is up and that the little thing is squirming around might be enough too get her going.

A few things that might help would be, feed right as its getting dark out, put the rat pup in as soon as she begins too swallow the mouse, put it close too the opening too her hide, and then just leave it alone, my bet is shell get it in the night if not right away.
Good Luck,
Devon

[mykee]

Devon, it is foolhardy to say that a live rat left in a cage with a snake is 'without any danger'. Regardless fo what size rat you throw in, there's always a danger unless you take the proper precautions.

[lostwithin]

Mykee,
You are right I worded that poorly, there is always some danger, I should have said there is VERY little danger too the snake, and when I said the largest rat pups you can find, I should have been more specific, they should be the largest rat pups you can find, that still have yet too open there eyes, at this stage they are still very defenseless and will most likely not be capable of doing harm too the snake. Thank you for pointing out that mistake,
Devon

[daver676]

Mykee,

I know you're a believer in the "starve it till it eats" method, but what do you think of my possible method? I'm interested to hear your thoughts....

[Tim_Cranwill]

In my experience, there is a better chance that the snake will back out of both meals if you try to shove another one in it's face while it's eating.

Just don't offer it food for a few weeks until it sheds and then offer it a really warm f/t rat or a live small rat with supervision.

[mykee]

Daver, I've used your approach, but it usually does more harm than good, because as Tim just mentioned, having a rat shoved in his face while he's still trying to swallow an item, could cause him to regurge, or just scare him off food. When I tried what you're suggesting, I used the longest (24") hemostats so there was less intrusion in front of the snake. It's a gamble at best. It's your call.

[daver676]

She is still eating live mice. Do you think I should try to get her over to f/t mice before I try the rat switch? I really hate feeding live. Too many bad things can happen.

[elevation24]

I would offer her a live unweaned rat. They still have their eyes closed but are scooting around a bit and it may catch her attention.

[mykee]

I think it would be better for you to be feeding live rats, then live mice. In my experiences, mice are meaner and will attack when faced with a snake. My rats, (experiment), just sniff around for a while, and then curl up in a corner and relax. If you restrain your rats when being fed, live rats are probably a better way to begin a switch to f/k or f/t then from live mice. Good luck.

[lostwithin]

Hi, I would have too disagree with mykee on this point, while all my other animals eat f/t my ball unfortunately refuses, she was fed only live for 3 years before I got her and I have yet too be able too switch her over too even freshly killed rats.. And I would have too say live rats Should NOT be left in a cage very long at all, weanling and pups who have yet too open there eyes would be ok, but anything older then that should be dealt with carefully, I have feed live mice and Never seen one attack or go near the snake, most of the time they run around or hide if they can. Rats on the other hand will sit in one spot for short time then begin too explore they are much more bold and almost always attempt too bite and chew on the snake. And the balls natural defense is too curl up and I have heard many times of serious damage being caused bye them if unattended.
Devon

[sapphire_moon]

actually with my expierences, I have fed and attempted to feed many times live rats, 3wks and older. They would crawl all over the snake, and one time even had one try to nurse! (That was a sight! actually laid down, closed her eyes, and started to search for a nipple!)

the FIRST time I attempted to feed a live small adult mouse the mouse opened her mouth to bite the snake! I pulled the mouse back before it was able to bite the snake. The mouse paid for that with it's life (the snake struck and caught it with the mouses head in the snakes mouth.

[elevation24]

I've never had a mouse nor a rat attempt to attack a snake. Gerbils are rather daring and I learned that real quick a few years ago -- they will run right up to the snake and start chewing away until stopped, but the rats and mice usually avoid the snake like the plague. Occasionally rats will be bolder and may climb on the snake, but I generally keep them restrained to keep that from happening since it freaks the snake out so much :p But usually the feeding response from the snake is great enough where the second the rodent goes near the snake, they snatch it right up anyway. I've never had a mouse or a rat attack a snake. Usually when they sense danger they go back into the farthest corner away from the snake and tap their back feet rapidly.

[mykee]

Which is why feeding live anything (especially mice) unrestrained or even worse, unattended is just plain stupid. If you feel the need or necessity to feed live, it should be done both responsibly and cautiously.

[daver676]

OK then. Time to find some live rats I guess.