first time breeding mice....

[nguyen_inc]

Well, I am planning on breed mice for some of my mice eating reptiles. I am thinking of buying a 1 to 3 or 4 ratio in a Rubbermaid. I was food shopping with my mom the other day and I found a bag of dog food for a good price, it's called "bit size meals", I think. Can I use this? Would pine shavings be good for the bedding and do I need to add cotton or any thing for the females to make a nest? Which males would do better, ones which looks psycho or the tamer ones? Last, how do I find out of the sex of pinkies and fuzzys (websites or pics will help the most)? I have looked at tons of sites but none of them answered my ??s.

[snakehunter]

USE ASPEN pine is poisonous to many reptiles, and if their food wher raised in it, then the animal may injest some.

Ive heard dog food can be used, but have not tried it myself, or for the mice for that matter!

Females will make their own nest in the aspen.

Calm males are better, so they will be less likely to eat your pinks, and bite while you are cleaning.

Sexing pinks will be difficult b/c they have not begun to grow reproductive organs b/c they really dont need them. Once they hit the fuzzy/hopper stage i would recon it would be easier to sex.

[Auskan]

Don't use pine. It will cause respiratory problems for the mice and you want your breeders as healthy as possible to provide healthy food for your snakes. You can use Aspen or Carefresh (carefresh might be the best thing for controlling odor).

Don't feed only dog food. You can add a little to their diet for extra protein but it shouldn't be their main source of food. Some breeders don't even recommend a little dog food in the diet as it can cause runny stools. I have found that mine aren't affected in that way and they need the extra protein for heavy breeding.

Food: I make up my own mix which consists of a cup each of oatmeal, cheerios, rice puffs, wheat puffs, Total (cereal). Then add 1/2 cup of the tri-colored rotini noodles. Maybe a few raisins, banana chips, unsalted peanuts or soy nuts. To this mix, I add a little dog food (a small handful per day consisting of 6-8 "pellets" of dog food). I feed them about 50% cereal mix & 50% bird seed, and the dog food is just an extra.

Sexing: In general, when you look at the pinkies, you can see an anus and a "nodule" on both sexes. There is a greater distance between the anus and the nodule in males than in females. However this will not be very apparent when they are first born, and it increases as they get older. By a week old it is quite easy to distinguish them, but younger than that, its difficult to tell. The good news is that the snakes don't care.

[nguyen_inc]

thanks, good thing you told me about the pine huh? sexing pinkys, I am pretty sure you can, I think its got to do with the space or something.....

[nguyen_inc]

opps sorry my internet was kicked off for 10 minutes, and when i press submit it Auskan, already posted.... : )

[nguyen_inc]

well thanks everyone! I think this is all of the info I need for now.

[nguyen_inc]

I just came back for a petstore to look at the feeders, and some looks somewhat pregnant. Is there any way I can make sure?

[mykee]

You cannot sex a pinky, you'll have to wait for them to become fuzzies.

[Cruciform]

One problem with a "trail mix" feed is that some of the mice will only eat their favorite items and ignore the others, so they don't get the nutrition that they need for breeding or feeding. So definitely throw in a rat pellet or something similar as a buffer.

Don't get too attached to the first babies either. I was surprised to see them completely ignore the babies. By the time the mother starting taking care of the lone survivor it was too late. The posts down below this thread were very helpful though :) The next batch should fare better.

[Auskan]

Originally posted by nguyen_inc
I just came back for a petstore to look at the feeders, and some looks somewhat pregnant. Is there any way I can make sure?

As far as I know they haven't developed a pregnancy test for mice yet! If they were yours and you'd had them for awhile, keeping track of weight would give you an idea. Even at the end of the first week, and before they are "showing", you will notice a weight gain on the scales. If the female mice at the pet store are being kept in with males, there is a good chance they are already pregnant, as they are sexually mature at 3-4 weeks old.

[Auskan]

Here is a pic of one of my mice taken this afternoon. This is one that I raised and this will be her first litter.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Looks like she will have 12-15 eh?

[Auskan]

I'll keep you posted. I think she'll have to pop tonight, but I don't know - I've been saying that for 4 days now :) One thing I've learned with my rats is that looks can be deceptive. My 2 females with their last litters, one looked absolutely enormous - and gained almost 100g during her pregnancy, then gave birth to only 3. The other, I didn't even know was pregnant as she didn't "look" any different, and one day I came home from work to find that she'd had 13!!!

The above mouse is the daughter of my best mouse producer. The mother consistently has 10 with each litter, which is why I chose to keep one of hers - I am hoping she has passed on good genes for producing large litters.

[marisa]

I have never once had respitory problems from pine, nor have I seen any research proving snakes eating mice housed on pine harbor any ill effects. I am going on three-four years on pine, (500+ mice per year) and my snakes are healthy happy and breeding.

I suppose it depends on your ventilation as well.

Marisa

[mykee]

I'm with Marisa, as you would probably be changing your breeders every year or two, chances are there would be no problems there, and seeing as how feeders are only kept on pine for two months tops, you shouldn't have top worry about any ill-effects that pine may cause to your feeders, let alone your snakes.

[GreenNeutron]

http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html This article has some information on the effects pine and cedar bedding used for mice and rats kept long term as pets and also lists some alternative beddings.

[Auskan]

Ha ha! I forgot to update on this. I posted the pic earlier in this thread of my very pregnant mouse and said I would post how many she had when the time came. Well, she had 12 last Tuesday. Not bad for a first litter. Her mother also consistently has good sized litters too so maybe that's a genetic thing. Anyway, I'll be using this line for my breeders from now on, I think, as I like these big litters.

[Stockwell]

I'm with Marisa and Mike..Pine has been used for lab bedding for eons, and it still is... Pine bedding is the staple inexpensive shavings used everywhere
I currently keep snakes on Alpha Chip...it's pine chips.
Years ago I kept snakes on pine shavings..
I never had any problems, and produced lots of snakes during that period.
Someone should tell pine snakes they are living in unsafe habitat. LOL

[marisa]

Bu that article is for PET mice. My mice don't live long enough to be pets, or suffer the consequences from pine. They are alive about 8-12 months, then I just replace them. I don't bother keeping them around until they "wear out" I just replace once per year or more. Get 3-4 litters, then whack em.

And as with all other articles it mentions nothing about snakes eating pine housed mice. Only that liver problems won't show up until after autopsy. But the problem with that is PLENTY of snakes have lived 30 years now breeding, and eating pine housed rodents.

Marisa

[pikachu]

we've bred mice at our petstore for years.
pine doesnt always cause resp. illness but it CAN. it has a very high level of dust compared to aspen. so much, our store has stopped selling pine altogether. try bagging the stuff! animals always seemed to fare worse and we had higher levels of resp. illness using it. your safest bet is aspen or carefresh(cuts the smell really well) with rodent blocks(lab chow) and a little seed. fresh fruits and veg are great too. feed em well, or they eat their babies!

[zendog]

Garbage in, garbage out!

The idea is to feed your reptiles the best quality, most nutritious food. Don't look at 'cheap' as a good deal. Your animals will pay the full price in reduced quality health and loss of vitality, even increased incidents of disease. Do some research and 'window' shopping. Quality, nutritionally balanced feeder food is available out there.