died by drinking water

[Pet with a tail]

this morning i did my usual feeding to my veiled male baby but today i gave him mealworms and i powder dusted them with HERPCARE calcium supplement then i put them i my veileds red food dish and the worm drank some water and died, is that normal it drank its self to death???some others died to and its not alot of water its like a dot.....??

[m1k3_88]

maybe they drowned:confused:

[Pet with a tail]

aww thatssad but he still ate it he knew the shape i guess....but he moves fast to get the mealworms so far id say theor his favorite....

[meow_mix450]

lol thats weird, but ya my bet is they drowned lol, i put a meal in my geckos cage, and theres a dish of shallow water not even a cm, so the worm walks in and drowned lol, what water do you use tap?How big is your mealies?

Meow

[Pet with a tail]

yeah i use tap ater the mealworms are like 1 inch long maybe 1/2 inch long they are small ones

[meow_mix450]

oo ok thats good:), but dont worry probly it drowned lol

Good luck,
Meow

[Bighead]

mealworms drown in very small amounts of water. You will notice that you will never see using a water dish in the meal worm care sheets.

[Brock]

Yeah they just haven't evolved to tolerate much water at all. The sandfish (species of desert skink) also cannot tolerate much water, they get their water intake only from the insects they eat. Kingworms, on the other hand, can survive a washing through the laundry. They come from Brazil I believe so they can handle the moisture.

-Brock

[Matt.B]

King worms are mealworms on steriods are you talking bout supers?
Matt

[panther_dude]

ya hey i know what you guys mean my baby gurl loves the meal worms. i dont know must just be cause they are a treat. i think chams are actually pretty smart. Didnt take her very long not even 5 days to figure out where her feeding dish was in her four foot sqaured cage

[kidchameleon]

eh, i tried the feeding dish one, with both of my chameleons. my jackson just seemed to ignore he. i guess he likes hunting for his food. my veiled wouldnt eat from a dish either, however, since she is still small, i put about a dozen crickets in a cup and put it in front of her and she eats out of there. i still let some raom free in the cage so she can get used to hunting them on her own, but for the most part i feed her from the cup. she is only 8 weeks old though. she is tiny

[panther_dude]

what sort of container did you use. Its doesnt make sence for them not to use it. Is your container clear. They have to be able to see the prey moving around through the sides. other wise they wont know its there.

[oiler17]

I read in a few different places (I don't remember where now, it was a while back) that it's a bad idea to use clear food cups/dishes because they'll mis-judge distance and could hurt their tongue. I don't know if it's one of those extremely anal, overly cautious keepers or what, but that's waht I heard. I just keep my food cup somewhere so he is always above it, that way he'll see the food and stuff but won't try to rip his tongue through the side or anything.

[huhet]

i'm with oiler on that one, i was getting ready to feed my pygmies today, and they were eyeing the crickets on the outside of the cage. i'm positive if i would have left it there any longer, there would have been tounges bouncing off the glass.

[panther_dude]

well i dont know im pretty sure that the impact of hitting a bug on a branch is going to be the same at hitting a bug in the bottom of a feeding dish even hitting glass chameleons dont hit dead on everytime. my baby panther even shoots her tounge out at water drops down the side of the tree and stuff like that with no ill effect

[Chris_Anderson]

Panther_Dude,

Actually, clear feed cups are bad. They increase the chance of the chameleon attempting to shoot their tongue through the clear sides. Chameleons are very good about judging distances and put a very specific amount of force into their tongue projection. By suddenly hitting a barrier with too much force, it can potentially damage the tongue muscles. Bad news.

Chris

[panther_dude]

everyone that owns chams and feeds with feeding dishes has and recomends clear cups would you mind tellimg me how we are all wrong and your so right?
my cham has never tries shooting trought the sides lol if you have it set up proper you dont have to worry bout that.
im sure chams are used to missing in the wild.
keep trying to come up with something else to bring down on me buddy

[Chris_Anderson]

Originally posted by panther_dude
everyone that owns chams and feeds with feeding dishes has and recomends clear cups would you mind tellimg me how we are all wrong and your so right?
my cham has never tries shooting trought the sides lol if you have it set up proper you dont have to worry bout that.
im sure chams are used to missing in the wild.
keep trying to come up with something else to bring down on me buddy

Panther Dude,

Trying? You're making it pretty easy but keep digging yourself a hole, "buddy."

In the wild, chameleons aren't faced with what to them seem like invisible barriers (ie transparent cups) that stop their tongue suddenly at full force causing muscle damage. They are used to hitting right sround where they aimed when the force has been calculated. If you took some time to do any research on the mechanics of the chameleon tongue or knew anything about how they react to glass or other transparent barriers, you should realize you are asking for trouble. This has been published many times and there are many known cases of it. What you decide to do with your chameleon is your business though, I'm just looking out for other's chameleons who are subject to poor advice.

Chris

[DragnDrop]

Panther_dude, just a little bit of adivce. Chris Anderson probably has more cham experience than most of us on this forum combined. He knows what he's talking about, not just about the feeding cups, but about chams in general. I don't think he posted anything that was attacking you in the way you seem to have taken it.

[Oliverian]

Jeez... you need to not overreact so much, panther. Someone offers you advice, don't take it as an insult. You'll get a lot farther in life that way.

-TammyR

[panther_dude]

well im sorry guys, but i have an anger managment probleme that is really hard to overcome. And when i feel like people are calling down on me and making me look stupid infront of others i tend to get offensive. Im sorry but the way Andersom was telling me about ice cubes being a bad idea, and then on top of that coming on to my msn to try and argue with me or some crap, anyways it was totally inapropriat and childish.
The fact is that i am new here and none of you know me. So how can you tell me how much knowledge i do or dont have?

Secondly if any of you have ever been in a tropical rain fall specially in an are with lots of mountains like madagascar the rain is cold, because it forms at high alltitudes and if anything gets colder as it falls. So they are constantly drinking cool water, and soaking in it at times.
So dont go letting off like you know me cause you don't.
But if we can put this a side i hope that we can all get along and help those out there that really need it instead of arguing like children, which we are all guilty of.
:w

[Chris_Anderson]

Originally posted by panther_dude
Im sorry but the way Andersom was telling me about ice cubes being a bad idea, and then on top of that coming on to my msn to try and argue with me or some crap, anyways it was totally inapropriat and childish.

Panther Dude, I never contacted you on MSN, email, AIM, PM or any other method other than the posts I've made publicly on this forum and saying anything otherwise is a blatent lie. I'm sorry you have an ager management problem but that is not our problem and now you are resorting to being a liar. It looks to me that you are either attempting slander or the alcohol has impared your judgement:

Originally posted by panther_dude
lol no kidding how dumb was that lol
i think i was smoking crack at that time it all cool cause im drunk now so lol

I trust you will stop coming up with colorful stories and stick to the facts.


Originally posted by panther_dude
Secondly if any of you have ever been in a tropical rain fall specially in an are with lots of mountains like madagascar the rain is cold, because it forms at high alltitudes and if anything gets colder as it falls. So they are constantly drinking cool water, and soaking in it at times.


I will once again ask you how you know this? Have you EVER been to madagascar? I have and I've been to these habitats and can tell you that the water is not as cold as ice melt off. Using melting ice to hydrate your animals is terrible husbandry.


Originally posted by panther_dude
But if we can put this a side i hope that we can all get along and help those out there that really need it instead of arguing like children, which we are all guilty of.



You are the one who started attacking people. I will not stop correcting false information and if you are going to resort to telling lies, how is anyone going to put stuff a side?

Regretfully,

Chris

[Collide]

I find it hard to beleave that u even talked to chris on msn if u did u should know how knowledgable the guy is. Your right I dont know u but u have jumped to conclusions and insulted many of us includeing me assuming that i dont take care of my chams, I would concider myself a knowledgable cham owner, but if advice was givin to me by someone such as Chris or other such cham owners that are soo well educated in chams trust me i would take it. I think u are blowing smok outa areas know to make up for not being able to take any critisim. Sorry but i find all your comments to everone to be rather rude.

[panther_dude]

wow ever post ive made youve had nothing but a comment to chris how can you talk to me maturity. But someone did come on my msn starting crap, and by the way you have been adding stuff after ever single post i have made i did not start this. If your so mature you would have just lauphed and nodded your head but instead you have proceeded to anger me. Weather i am angry for the right reasons or not im sorry but this is the way i am. I have tried appologizing to you even and you still talk crap. What is wrong with you, is there something missing in your life that bashing me fullfills it?

[dank7oo]

*sits and wonders*

Jason

[panther_dude]

well it doesnt help that you put words in my mouth either
Collide:Your right I dont know u but u have jumped to conclusions and insulted many of us includeing me assuming that i dont take care of my chams,
I never said that anyone didnt take proper care of there chams, unless theymade me think other wise lol

[dank7oo]

I hate to tell you but no one here insulted you. Maybe you are being too sensative about constructive critisism for the good of the animal?

Jason

[Chris_Anderson]

Panther Dude,

In your post you continued to give bad information, tried to blackball me with lies that I did things I did not and then you asked to move on.

You are the one who is pushing wrong information as fact and acting like you have experience to back it up. Now its time to lay that experience out as I did. As I said before, what chameleon habitat have you been in that the rain was as cold as melting ice?

You then made claims that I came on your MSN and started attacking you, which I did not do. Thats called slander. You honestly can sit there and say that you are acting more mature than me after your posts?

Chris

[Chris_Anderson]

Originally posted by panther_dude
well it doesnt help that you put words in my mouth either
I never said that anyone didnt take proper care of there chams, unless theymade me think other wise lol

Let me help you out with this one:

Originally posted by panther_dude
well i dont know you guys must not be doing something right.
panther chameleons are of the most sexually active chameleons out there.

[panther_dude]

yes and what does that proove, Are you saying that panthers are not of the more sexually active chameleons. I didnt say they didnt know what they are doing but there must be some reason that they are not reproducing and most people would think that husbandry is an issue. I dont feel that that would be insulting, talking to me about taking things the wrong way lol
As i mentioned already i was sorry for accusing you but you were the only one making a reply after every single post i made. And who ever it was didnt denie being you when cofronted and asked it it was Anderson. So for that I am sorry.
Plus to begin with I only said that it might be alright to use ice cubes. And that the water from them would warm up just as fast as hot water cools down.
I have never once lied on here there would be no reason my words may have gotten mixed around but never once tried to lie or give out false info. This is all nothing but a waste of all of our times, and to continue on is purely childish.
Every forum ive been on i see lots of favortism to older members, its just not right.

[dank7oo]

Plus to begin with I only said that it might be alright to use ice cubes. And that the water from them would warm up just as fast as hot water cools down.

Not true because the water would be where when they were drinking? On the ice itself, and there is no way the ice would be warm.

Chris only responded to your posts which contained information considered by the vast majority of owners to be false, even if a select few consider it allright.

Jason

[Chris_Anderson]

Originally posted by panther_dude
And who ever it was didnt denie being you when cofronted and asked it it was Anderson.

All you have to do is look in your files and see what the person's email address was and you can find out exactly who it was. (My Documents->received files->History) You should never make assumptions like that and then post false acusations based on them.


Originally posted by panther_dude
Plus to begin with I only said that it might be alright to use ice cubes. And that the water from them would warm up just as fast as hot water cools down.

the water from the ice is falling a matter of inches to a couple feet before the chameleon would be exposed to it. This is not enough for the water to heat up to a safe level.


Originally posted by panther_dude
Every forum ive been on i see lots of favortism to older members, its just not right.

What do you mean by this? Are you mad that people with more experience are given more credibility than self proclaimed experts who have been keeping only a short time and are handing out known bad advice? Are you mad that older individuals (in reference to age) are favored? If the latter, it simply is not true. There are a number of young keepers with extensive experience who give out good info who are more respected the older, less experienced individuals. If you are mad that people favor good advice from more experienced keepers over bad advice from relative newbies, i'm fail to see your logic.

Chris

[panther_dude]

ok i dont even know why im explaining this but a single drop of water will either break up or spread out on a leaf and has a large surface area. Now if there is a heat lamp on these leaves your telling me the water droplets will not heat up? Ontop of the ambient temp in the cage being around 85 degrees F
No im not mad that people with more experience are given more credibility, its just the fact that you never even asked for my proper explantion you just pointed a finger and said I was wrong. Sure you may have lots of knowledge but that doesnt mean you have the right to call down on people the way you did.
And i do you some younge guys that are really knowledgable and its cool cause it reminds me of myself at that age.
If i gave off the impresion that i think im an expert im sorry I know im not. I was just trying to get the point across that im not your average day joe, that comes in here not knowing anything. Maybe i went about it the wrong way but whats done is done.
Again can we not get on with ours lives. This is childish

[DragnDrop]

In order for a drop of water to heat from near freezing(melting temp of 32F), to 'warm' by cham standards, it's got to absorb a lot of heat in short drop from the ice cube container to the leaf. If you're expecting your ambient temp of 85F to do it, you're not going to be successful. Your heat/basking light will have to crank out a lot more heat than it takes to attain that 85F temp. An increase around 50 F degrees in a few seconds is more along the lines attainable by a stovetop element, fire or microwave, not a basking light.
Let's just give it up, this is getting nowhere. Some people learn by reading, some by watching, and some just have to learn by their own mistakes.

There's not much more left to be added, this seems to only be heading down a path of useless bickering.