Witnessing colubrid breeding?

[Tim_Cranwill]

I have several pairs of corns/kings/milks paired up and I have heard a lot of action but seen none. Out of certain boxes, there is "tail whipping" and all sorts of commotion going on every night but I haven't seen any actual copulation yet. All of the snakes have had their 1st post brumation shed between 1 and 3 weeks ago.

Just wondering how often everyone witnesses copulation between their colubrid pairs.


Here are some pics of the pairs during cage cleaning. I have been leaving the hides and water dish in for their mating sessions and have been putting the male in the female's box (no pun intended ;)).

Corns: She's proven but it's his first year....
http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~cranwill/net_pics/cornpair01.jpg

Brooksi: Both first time breeders. She's 575g and between 3 and 4 feet...
http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~cranwill/net_pics/brooksipair01.jpg

Cal kings: She had an infertile clutch last year (long story) but it's his first year...
http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~cranwill/net_pics/calkingpair01.jpg

Mex Blks: Sold to me as proven breeders...
http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~cranwill/net_pics/mexblkpair01.jpg


Thanks all. :cool:

[Tim_Cranwill]

Roy, Jeff, Mark (any of the Marcs or Marks), Simon... anyone????

Any thoughts or experiences???

[Stockwell]

My stuff is all just out as of last weekend.
I usually observe most matings. I think it's still too early. Sometimes they don't mate until after the second shed, and after being well packed with food for a month(the girls). I've tried breeding stuff early by shortening brumation, but this has never really worked for me. Most of my colubrids breed in May, no matter when I take them out of brumation.
In my collection Corns, Pueblans and Hognose snakes are the first to breed, possibly as early as April. Getulas would breed in May.
I find some things don't breed until much later, like Hondurans, and Sinaloans/Nelsons, which don't breed for me until late May or June, but other guys breed them earlier.
The latest breeders by far are Transpecos ratsnakes, which don't seem to breed until late summer July or even August. I feel this is one problem with the lack of supply. Keepers miss the window, by trying to breed them in May and June, and then separating them over a month before they are fertile
Lots of noise and tail whipping is generally an indication that females aren't ready, although those non-copulatory encounters might act like a trigger to ovulation.
If I put pairs together and there is lots of fuss and no copulation after an hour or so, I separate them, and try again the next week.
When females are ripe, they'll accept the male usually after less than 30 minutes of courtship and often in a matter of a few minutes.

Tim those are some nice snakes you have. I use to breed all of those.
I don't work with the getulas anymore, but I still miss my Nigritus, and I guess that's why I got the
black milks
Best of luck for a great season!

[Will]

Well Tim, I've been 2 for 2 this year. Both times I put them together, she accepted within an hour. He seems to take his sweet time, so I got to visually comfirm it both times. This may not be of any value because as you know, those 2 times constitute the entire extent of my breeding experiences thus far, but...

My question is, from Roy's observations that most getulas breed in April or May, would these breedings I am seeing now actually be doing anything, or is it too early for a successful breeding...? The first was on the 10th, the second was on the 14th. Her first shed was in the first week of March. Obviously, I'll keep putting them together as long as she's 'in the mood', but I'm just curious.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Thanks guys. :)

I guess I'll try them less frequently and focus more on feeding for the next month or so.

[gonesnakee]

Usually you catch them when you have no camera LOL Some I have never seen the act, but get to see the results : ) heh heh I was lucky enough to catch the Blue Beauties in action a few times already (as well as the JCPs). All the others are to be introduced to one another yet so we will see, but I didn't "catch" many of them last year. Mark

[Tim_Cranwill]

Last year out of two clutches, I only saw them locked up twice so I wondered how common it was to actually see them in action. :)

[Tim_Cranwill]

How many of you guys wait for the 2nd shed before pairing them up?

[Yness]

K, Tim, when and if you succeed with those mex blacks I get one...;)

[Tim_Cranwill]

You're the first one on the list... besides what I hold back! ;)

[gonesnakee]

Tim, I don't even wait for the first sheds anymore. I've had females come out of burmation & not shed until their prelay before, so I don't take any chances on missing out. Mark

[Tim_Cranwill]

Interesting. What are your findings on different species/sub-species and how long until they will generally begin to copulate?

If you don't mind sharing. ;)

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL, I never see the damn things copulate. Their faster than 17 year olds on prom night!

But then again, my perception might be next to nothing, as I've missed 3 out of 3 python ovulations AND pre-lay sheds this year, LOL!

[Tim_Cranwill]

Thanks Jeff, that's good to know too. I have read about a lot of people seeing their pairs copulate... when? Don't get me wrong, I secretly watch and listen but I'm not there the whole time they are together. They could have locked up several times for hours on end when I'm not there. I'm comfortable with letting them work things out but I was really curious about who sees what and how often.

I have been keeping my pairs together for a couple days, separating to feed and then reintroducing them for a few more days and yadda yadda... I also read about people who pair their snakes up for a few seconds, they lock up and do their thing and then they separate them. Who knows? All I know is that I am not in charge of their nasty goings on, the best I can do lend them my car and extend their curfew! :D

[Classic]

Tim, I warmed my pueblans in early Feb. I've power fed my female since warming her. I have been introducing her to the males enclosure 1-3 times/week since Feb 20. The male just had his first shed and the female has just had her second.
I witnessed no breeding behavior until 17 March. When the female was placed in the males enclosure yesterday...he was all over her. She is very large and the ovarian foliciles are very prominant to the feel.

Brian

[MouseKilla]

I must be experiencing some beginner's luck because the only pair I'm breeding this season (a male normal corn X female snow) have been shagging eachother stupid for nearly a month now.

Here's what I did:

Nov. 23 - Jan. 25 - Cooling

Jan. 31 - Feb. 15 - 3 substantial feedings

Feb. 22 - Female opaque

Feb. 26 - Female shed - paired immediately w/ male - copulation witnessed within an hour

Feb. 28 - Seperated and fed

Mar. 1 - Paired again - copulation witnessed within minutes


It's gone on like this since. They've been at it when I'm not looking as well judging by the icky stains on the newspaper beneath them. They seem to be especially interested in eachother immediately after I reintroduce them.

The female has now become quite round and swollen and I'm impatiently waiting the egg laying shed. It's gone as I hoped it would so far so it's suprising to hear you guys say nothing happens for you until later in the year. I don't know what to think about that. Makes me wonder if I screwed up somewhere but at the same time she is getting FAT! I guess I'm gonna have to just wait and see what happens.

[Classic]

I witnessed no breeding behavior until 17 March. When the female was placed in the males enclosure yesterday...he was all over her. She is very large and the ovarian foliciles are very prominant to the feel.

Well Jeff, As you can see from my Pueblan Eggs post from last night, they weren't folicles i was feeling...lol! I was really caught off guard when i found my female laying those eggs. I was putting them together a fair bit and i didn't think they were bumping uglies at all until earlier this week. I guess i missed it for this year with this couple.

Brian
HighWaterHerps

[wyz]

Would that be it ??? :D

http://www.wyzza.ca/album/cornsnake/copulation_amel_hypo_230304_1.JPG

http://www.wyzza.ca/album/cornsnake/copulation_amel_hypo_230304_4.JPG

[Tim_Cranwill]

Oooh yeah! :D