The best Baby Setups

[Ciddian]

Hello again,

I have seen plenty amazing adult cham setups but i need one right now for a baby veiled.

I currently have mine in a 5.5 tank with cocnut fiber, plants and vines. She is always a bright green but she does a lot of digging wich has led to dirt getting stuck in one of her eyes and is now infected.....(as i posted a few posts down :) I also took some good advice and have moved her to a less busy room.

Should i buy one of those screen cages?? She will not get to lost will she? She is only about 3 inches long.

Does anyone have pictures of how they keep their babies??

Thanks for your time! :)

[tHeGiNo]

There was an interesting post on the subject of "big or small" cages for chameleons, you should take a look for that.

Personally, I feel both work perfectly, so long as they are adjusted accordingly. If you do not mind switching cages as it grows, then I would go with a small cage. However what I have found is, once someone purchases or builds one cage, they are not interesting in building / purchasing one as the chameleons grows out of it, which will not take long in most cases. I would suggest do what works best with you. Whatever the case, though, a screened enclosure is required to permit proper ventilation.

Whatever the case, ensure that the cage is filled with branches and foliage, with branches small enough for them to grip firmly. If you decide to go with an enclosure of a suitable size for an adult veiled, just add extra foliage - ie. plants and branches. You may also want to put substrate on the bottom to lighten a fall, which is possible.

When you say that she is digging a lot, to me that means she is on the ground a lot. This may suggest improper husbandry, are you sure it is not too hot in there? In such a tiny cage, it is hard to set up a basking spot without overheating the whole enclosure.

I have seen plenty amazing adult cham setups but i need one right now for a baby veiled.

Again, and in my opinion, the only difference between an adult setup and a neonate set up is the added foliage. Stick with the substrate you are using, it is great stuff.

[K1LOS]

I'd ditch that 5.5 gallon and go right to a good sized cage. I have my little guy (3-4") in a 4' x 3' x 2' cage and have so since the last expo. He has never once come close to falling, he knows where his dripper is, and he knows where his food is. So basically, he is just fine, and has a lot of space to himself.

If you won't do that, i'd at least remove the substrate, and find out why he is on the ground. Put paper towels down on the ground instead of that coconut fiber. Get a good digital thermometer, and check multiple points in the cages temps. There needs to be a good variance in temps. Is he eating? maybe he is trying to go find food or water. Seperate the cat from the cham, no good can come from that situation. Keep us posted

Geoff

[huhet]

5.5??? holy crap man. my baby didn't even want to be in a well planted 30 gallon.

i'd do what geoff recommended. you don't have to build a cage quite that big, but you may want one some day.

[meow_mix450]

i dont have time to read the other post right now, srry. But make or buy a screen cage, so there is more ventalation, or fungis will start growing. No subsrate is best, i would use tiles instead.

Meow

[i have a cham04]

I just got my baby cham and the set up i have for him is sand substrate a plastic torarium plant to hide in and under. i am working on getting him a chinese evergreen i have bird perch like sticks i made myself. i put themaround the cage some high so hean bask better some leading to it so his food will go to him and some going from his plants to the higher one....its up to you how you set the tank up i have mine in a 10 gallon and soon to a 29 low and so on and so on...im sure you know the lizzzard grows with the size of its home...if you want ill send you pics when i get some i just got my cham yesterday so im still experimenting but my bio teacher said not to change its habitat alot they will get more stressed.and dont listen to the ones giving yuo trouble,its your cham so experiment...just do the best you can...its no harder than taking care of an iguana.

[Ciddian]

Ohhh trust me, she won't be in the 5.5 for long. I have no problem with expanding cage sizes.

Thank you for all your imput! I will definatly keep your tips in mind has i design larger Cham cages. (It's nice to have a father in law who is a carpenter :)

OOhh! And as far as the infected eye....it has cleared up wonderfully

Thanks again!!

(Once i get a digital i'll take some piccys)

[Collide]

"i have a cham04" im sorry to pick u out here i just have to say there are alot of things you are doing that could be major health risks to your cham.

sand substrate is not good at all

Tanks are a big no no . and tempature gradent is imposible to obtain and there is no air flow, and mosture gets traped which leads to stagnet water mold ect... ie recipe for a respatory infection. Also a 29 gallon tank is way way way too small for a adult cham which WILL outgrow that inclosure within a year for sure. also u would be needing a tall inclosure to alow your cham to climb.


Chameleons Will out grow there small enclosures the size of there envoroment will not determin its size.

And a cham in my opion is one of the hardest lizzards to care for. not that i know much about many lizzard other then chams but they are not recomended for the unexperienced thats for sure.


I think that u should read some of the older posts in here and check out some chameleon info sites, I think u have been given some bad advice when it comes to your cham. i will garentee that your little guy will be dead in 6 months if keept in those conditions

do u have a UV light?
what kind of suplements are u giving your cham?
what are the temps in the hot spot and the cooler spot?

I dont mean to come down on u Im just very concerned about your cham.

Here are some sites u should read up on about chameleon care and I hope that u understand that i only want to help your little guy he its a little life u got there not a experiment.

www.chameleonjournals.com
www.adcham.com
www.chamownersweb.com

[Ciddian]

First off... I do not consider my cham to be an experiment. I cannot help but be offended.

Secondly...i was not the one who puchased this for me. My boyfriend just showed up with the little girl as we where leaving the reptile show. I do not concider myself a begginer at all and i am not an impusle buyer.

She is not on sand substrate, she is on coconut fibers which i am told is fine. Yes, she is in a tank but that is temporay like i had said. If I had known we where bringing home a cham that day i would have had a set up ready and going a week before.

I have Uv lighting on the tank and her basking spot isn't as warm as i would like but as soon as i get a correct tall tank that will be fixed. The warmest spot i would say is 89-90 degrees. The coolest is 83-80.

I suppliment her diet by gut loading my pinheads with fish food, lettus, spinich and carrots plus i also dust them.

Yes....I am "new" to chamelions that is true but i have spent many hours trying to sort out the good tips from the bad. I thank you for your links and i will definatly use them.

I just wanted to clear myself and prove to you that i am not a mindless consumer of living things. I cherish and care deeply for all of my pets (And i have plenty! LOL)

Thank you...

[Collide]

you cant help but be offended because that was not ment for you i was responding to cham o4 guy sorry if u thought that was about u .

[Ciddian]

I am terribly sorry.......I mis-read :)

Thank you for the links however ^_^

[K1LOS]

I have a cham04:

First off, i agree with collide completely that chams are not for beginners. Not to say a beginner can't be succesful, but i'd suggest it is a rarity. The constant attention required just to maintain the humidity would rule it out for beginners in my mind.

secondly, sand is definately a no no for chams.

third, a 29 low tank, must be THE WORST enclosure for a cham. Only thing that could make it worse would be if it were even smaller. I seriously hope you will at least have it on its end.

your biology teacher must be insane if he is suggesting you experiment with the time tested, proven, husbandry methods for these chams. The information is readily available to you, just ask. Lots of chameleons died working out the kinks of their husbandry, and you think you'll be able to work it all out on your first (and only) cham? Good luck to you and your animal.

[i have a cham04]

1 im not a beginner 2 he is only being in this tank for a short period i am building him a screened enclosure and the sand substrate is fine because that is what the book reccommended and his basking is about 75-80 degrees and his lower temp is like 60-70 degress anyways the cage i am building is going to be like 5x3x7 for now til i build bigger but he is well misted and vitamins on all his meal he is fine he enjoys the attention i give him

[i have a cham04]

oh and the only reason he is in a 10 gal. is because he was a last minute gift.....so sorry if your worried he will be fine and thecage im building will be on wheelsso he can be wheeled outside when it is nice out and im buying him a new hibiscus tree or maybe a chinese evergreen

[meow_mix450]

sand can cause impaction, and that is wut kills ALOT of reptiles! so please take it off. Have you owned another chameleon??? If not then im gonna say your a beginner, i use to be a beginner and i sorta still am, instead of reading jsut one book check out the sites collide gave you, good luck

Meow

[tHeGiNo]

I just got my baby cham and the set up i have for him is sand substrate a plastic torarium plant to hide in and under. i am working on getting him a chinese evergreen i have bird perch like sticks i made myself. i put themaround the cage some high so hean bask better some leading to it so his food will go to him and some going from his plants to the higher one....its up to you how you set the tank up i have mine in a 10 gallon and soon to a 29 low and so on and so on...im sure you know the lizzzard grows with the size of its home...if you want ill send you pics when i get some i just got my cham yesterday so im still experimenting but my bio teacher said not to change its habitat alot they will get more stressed.and dont listen to the ones giving yuo trouble,its your cham so experiment...just do the best you can...its no harder than taking care of an iguana.

Hmm, using sand, in an AQUARIUM, for a veiled? Yet not a begginner? That sounds like quite the oxymoron to me. First off, I would LOVE to know the book that told you sand is ok for chameleons. Last I checked, they lived in the mountains of Yemen, not the deserts of Egypt.

his basking is about 75-80 degrees

First, sand as a substrate. Then, basking spots of 75? Really dude, what book ARE you reading?

he is fine he enjoys the attention i give him

And you know this how? An animal psychologist are we?

[tHeGiNo]

....its up to you how you set the tank up i have mine in a 10 gallon and soon to a 29 low and so on and so on...im sure you know the lizzzard grows with the size of its home...if you want ill send you pics when i get some i just got my cham yesterday so im still experimenting but my bio teacher said not to change its habitat alot they will get more stressed.and dont listen to the ones giving yuo trouble,its your cham so experiment...just do the best you can...its no harder than taking care of an iguana.

Ok, somehow I avoided your first post. Yet, I read it, and must reply to the stupidity. You have yours in a 10 GALLON AQUARIUM. And you plan to steadily increase the size of its AQUARIUM. And lizards GROW TO THEIR ENVIRONMENTS? Then, you say husbandry is an experiment? I am starting to wonder if your experimenting how small your brain is man. I am also getting the idea that you are saying things just to get under peoples skin. I mean, I didn't there there was anyone left who actually believed that reptiles grow to the size of their enclosure.

Several individuals have kept chameleons in the past, for YEARS and YEARS now. They experimented, and have over the years developed PROPER HUSBANDRY. It is no longer experiments, it is proven facts.

Also, iguanas are quite complicated to care for. Properly, that is. Smarten up man.

[i have a cham04]

have checked out plenty bit also i have owned anoles which is kinda the same but not really...anyway everyone starts out a beginner but i will learn as for the sand i am gonna replace it with zoomed carpet for cages maybea pretty blue to go with his cage and maybe some coloured counters....but ill use the 0 pound bag of sand for my daughters turtle sandbox this summer...thanks for the help

[Chris_Anderson]

I Have a Cham04

Correct me if I'm wrong ( and please inform me what you are using) but you are using Schmidt, Tamm and Wallikewitz's book that was written over a decade ago, right? It would take me hours to write about all the errors in that book and discuss all the husbandry advances in the past 10 years.

Chameleons are nothing like anoles in their care, natural history or anything else for that matter. The closest they can be compared is that they are a lizard that changes color. Anoles are one of the easiest reptiles to keep, chameleons easily one of the hardest.

No chameleon experience = Novice (beginner) keeper

Chameleons of the subfamily Chamaeleonidae are for the most part arboreal with a couple exceptions. This means they need to be kept in enclosures 30" tall or taller with the top of the cage at approximately 6' high so they feel secure.

The reason you think your cham enjoys the attention is because when you stick your hand in the cage, the chameleon wants to be high (thats how they feel secure) and your hand is higher than his tank so he allows himself to be taken out. This does not mean it isn't extremely stressful for him.

Fake plants are for fake chameleons and glass tanks are not for chameleons, get a fish.

The enclosure should have a lot of foliage and horizontal perches.

Chameleons need to have a large enough cage that an effective temperature gradient can be setup, a 10 gallon is not large enough and a tank is just bad news, you're asking for problems from stress, imunological failure and upper respiritory infection (URI) among other problems.

How are you watering the chameleon, what supplements are you using, what lighting are you using, etc?

Chris

[Chris_Anderson]

Also, a chameleon is not a goldfish, it doesn't grow with the size of its enclosure. Whoever told you that doesn't have any idea what they are talking about.

You're teacher was right that altering the habitat frequently stressed the chameleon but if he/she knew the conditions your animal was being kept in versus what they should be kept in, i'm sure they would agree that setting the cham up properly is vital.

Advising someone to experiment and ignore what experienced keepers and breeders are saying is necessary is very irresponsible. That type of advice is why more chameleons die every year than almost any other reptile.

Chris

[blazinreps]

I just wanted to add a couple things yea a screen cage is pretty much manditory for chamelions as it promotes ventalation. and sand is deffintily not the best substrate. the only 2 thinsg i wanted to comment on is plastic plants are not bad for chamelions but real ones are a bit better as they help with humidity and the outher thing is that there IS a species of chamelion that does live in the desert.

[Chris_Anderson]

Originally posted by blazinreps
I just wanted to add a couple things yea a screen cage is pretty much manditory for chamelions as it promotes ventalation. and sand is deffintily not the best substrate. the only 2 thinsg i wanted to comment on is plastic plants are not bad for chamelions but real ones are a bit better as they help with humidity and the outher thing is that there IS a species of chamelion that does live in the desert.

Yes there is a species that lives in the desert (Chamaeleo namaquensis) but Ch. calyptratus does not. Ch. namaquensis is not kept in captivity (with maybe a couple exceptions) and almost all efforts to do so have failed. Its like saying a snake can be kept in a salt water tank cause there are sea snakes. (not trying to bash you, just making sure your information isn't misinterperated as "its okay to..."). Also, Ch. calyptratus are omnivores so live, non toxic, edible plants are required for proper care. Just my 2 cents,

Chris

[meow_mix450]

I find that fake plants are fine, as long as you have one or two live plants then its fine, you dont want to much plants, where its impossible for it to go through lol. Ya Chris made a good point, the only reason why its climbing on you is probly cause the cage is to small and cause your higer then the tank, a chameleon feels a lot sfare when higher cause its able to see everything around him. As for subsrate use tiles!

Meow

[i have a cham04]

well the sand is out of the aquarium and i got carpet on the cage floor instead and i got him a pothos plant and spider plant...

[Chris_Anderson]

Still waiting to hear about your lighting and watering techniques. I have my suspisions about it but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and let you tell us about it. I'm concerned though about your animal so I'm pushing you to post about these aspects so we can help you.

Chris

[i have a cham04]

chris who are you wanting to hear about lighting and watering from?

[Chris_Anderson]

Originally posted by i have a cham04
chris who are you wanting to hear about lighting and watering from?

You

[huhet]

Originally posted by Chris_Anderson
Yes there is a species that lives in the desert (Chamaeleo namaquensis) but Ch. calyptratus does not. Ch. namaquensis is not kept in captivity (with maybe a couple exceptions) and almost all efforts to do so have failed. Its like saying a snake can be kept in a salt water tank cause there are sea snakes. (not trying to bash you, just making sure your information isn't misinterperated as "its okay to..."). Also, Ch. calyptratus are omnivores so live, non toxic, edible plants are required for proper care. Just my 2 cents,

Chris

speaking of c. namaquensis, i just watched a great documentary on this species tonight on the national geographic channel. it's strange to see chameleons walking around in the desert, fighting off vipers and whatnot. i was very impressed though it was rather sad to see the adults eating the freshly hatched young ones.