BlackRatSnake to a Corn Snake?

[BurmGuy87]

What would I get? I would buy another BRS but the shows I go to dont allow the sale of Native Species....and I dont like to order over the internet.

So if i breed my WC Black Ratsnake...say to a Normal Cornsnake...what will the babies look like?

If you know or have pics please post them. Oh and any pics of a cross breed...no matter what the snakes!

[sapphire_moon]

if they don't allow sales of a native snake, then isn't it illegal to own a native snake?

[BurmGuy87]

No you just arent allowed to sell anything native at the reptile shows. When I go to petstores I always see garter snakes....and i saw a black rat snake before as well

[Derrick]

I dont know what you'ld get but ordering over the internet is no big deal. I wouldnt have any snakes if it wasnt for the net. just find a good breeder/dealer. if you have any questiond about them ask on the Board of inquiry for references http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=115

[sapphire_moon]

If I were you I would check the laws/bylaws just to be certain.

[JD@reptiles]

you would get a dark snake.. i have seen a yellow x black once... looked like a brownish yellow rat snake

[C.m.pyrrhus]

Laws are prolly like they are here in AZ. No sale or trade of native species (we can buy outside of the state), but we are allowed to keep most natives. Again, checking your state laws is best to keep up on, saves your a$$ in the end.

[M_surinamensis]

Before undertaking a breeding project of this type, there are considerations above and beyond merely the potential appearance of any offspring...

Hybrids are dangerous. No matter how much care and attention is taken to ensure that they don't pollute a larger gene pool there is no way for an individual who produces or owns them to ensure that the animal stays under their control for the remainder of it's life. Getting something into a gene pool is actually fairly easy... might take some work with scenting to get copulation, but it's nowhere near as difficult as isolating and removing genes from a larger population.

Just as a quick example... captive cornsnakes are already heavily polluted by emoryi, as great plains were used in the original "creation" of the creamcicle morph. Due to the continued production of snakes by somewhat innocently ignorant individuals ("Hey I gots a boy corn an'a girl corn, less make some babies") who breed the first two snakes they come across rather than projects with a bit of integrity the larger population of animals has had emoryi introduced and it's possible for people to be producing mixed genetic animals without knowing.

That's about as calm and polite as I can be about this issue... I see hybridization as inherently wrong and fairly immoral to start. While I certainly feel it's a valid position on the issue it does leave me biased- I urge the original poster to look into some of the ethical questions behind hybridization, from sources both for and against, before even considering a project of this nature. With very few exceptions, the overwhelming majority of educated and responsible keepers are against it. I am confident that, with some research into the subject, pretty much everyone else would be as well.

[Katt]

Hey, I love hybrids, I've produced my own and bought them and sold them, and keep them. However, in my opinion black rat crosses are the ugliest crosses. All that dark melanin just makes for a dirty and dark snake. You just get a dark looking corn, so really there is no point in crossing them.

Get yourself an albino black rat. Those are gorgeous.

Even looking at it profit wise, ugly snakes don't sell for much. A pure black rat or pure corn baby will fetch you more than a hybrid of the two.

[MouseKilla]

Originally posted by M_surinamensis


Hybrids are dangerous.

That's about as calm and polite as I can be about this issue... I see hybridization as inherently wrong and fairly immoral to start.

With very few exceptions, the overwhelming majority of educated and responsible keepers are against it. I am confident that, with some research into the subject, pretty much everyone else would be as well.

Who exactly are hybrids dangerous to? We're talking about captive populations here so it certainly isn't ecologically dangerous...

What could possibly be immoral about breeding two of your own captive snakes that remain in private collections? What difference does it make to you or anyone else what two snakes hump? This doesn't harm the animals in any way, at very worst a misidentified animal may screw up another captive breeding project. Big deal. Buyer beware, get a reputable source if you're intent on getting a particular set of genes.

When you say that "most educated and responsible keepers" are against hybridization you obviously aren't talking about most breeders in North America. I must wonder who this "moral" majority you're talking about consists of. In my experience the only people that are against breeding hybrids are those who have chosen, for whatever reason, to concentrate on breeding specific localities of animals. So while breeding hybrids may cause some of these breeders an annoyance from time to time it hardly qualifies as "immoral".

Don't get me wrong, I personally want to know what genes I'm dealing with when selecting animals to pair up for breeding so I am in favour of honestly represented animals in the trade. I just don't see what harm there is in having genetically different or new animals out there as well so long as they are accurately and honestly represented in the market.

If you don't like hybrids then don't buy any, but calling it a moral or ethical issue is going a little nuts I think.

[gonesnakee]

In reguards to the Hybrid thing it's already been discussed plenty. Give up already on trying to push your morals, each their own. Get over it or take it up on the threads already there.

The Hybrid mentioned here would be a waste of time IMHO (points mentioned above by Katt) & futhermore you state the BRS is a native species. Native species are not allowed to be sold correct? Therefore any hybrids or intergrades of those species are also therefore illegal to buy, sell, trade also. Why start up an illegal breeding project that produces ugly (IMHO) hybrids that are illegal to sell. Doesn't make sense to me. Maybe consider a project that will be more feesible for your situation or at least legal. Mark

[Andy_G]

I agree with others about the hybrid "thing" and the fact that a very ugly snake would be produced! :)

[Jeff Hathaway]

Well, I'm in that 'moral majority' as I do think hybrids have the potential for damage to wild populations due to escapes and releases of unwanted specimens. This might not be too much of a problem in Canada- with our cold winters, most species being hybridized wouldn't survive anyway. But, farther south, offspring of corns X black rats could survive and breed with wild specimens.

Pet stores shouldn't be selling PA species either, the law doesn't just apply to shows. But, possession is okay.

Why not travel a few hours to another state and buy what you want there?

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[BurmGuy87]

OK thanks.....just wondering:)