Killing rodents?

[Wizwise2000]

Whacked a hopper today and since I've been handling the little ones, I didn't like it. Today I was told by my brother inlaw to use pure oxygen to kill rodents instead of Co2. Anyone use this method or have any comments concerning oxygen?

Thanks
Shane

[Cruciform]

It will kill them eventually, but you'd be better off sticking to CO2.
Pure oxygen is toxic, but at sea level it takes a while (days in humans) to kick in. If you were scuba diving, the deeper you were the more immediate the danger would be. They have special blends of lowered oxygen content, as well as replacing nitrogen with helium to prevent nitrogen narcosis (the bends).

CO would be even more efficient than CO2 because it is more readily absorbed into the bloodstream than oxygen, but CO2 is easier to get and painless.

[sapphire_moon]

much easier to get, go to your local paint store and ask them for a remote and a canister of co2.
At my local place it is only 30cents an ounce to refil it. Don't know if that is good or bad, but it seems pretty cheap to me.

[mykee]

Whatever method causes the least amount of pain in ultimately providing our snakes with food. It's our responsibility as reptile owners.

[Wizwise2000]

CO scares me, never used it but I've heard bad things. To set up a gas chamber for rodents what would I need and how do I build it? Any links or anything to show something like this? Also, how long does it take to kill them?

Thanks
Shane

[Lrptls]

why dont you just get frozen food at the pet store or order it? you can stock up, dont have to kill any thing, its safer for the animals cause it kills off any parasites...

[Lisa]

For my Dry Ice set up (makes CO2) I use a garbage can, a deli cup with holes in the lid, some hot water and dry ice. I get the dry ice from praxair, often for free. it's a dollar per pound if I pay.

I take the rats, put them in the garbage can. I take the deli cup, fill it with hot water, add dry ice, close the lid and place in the garbage can. the dry ice in hot water makes a CO2 fog that slowly intermixes with the air in the garbage can causing the rodents to go to sleep and then die of oxygen deprivation.

I find the fog allows the air mixture to slowly get stronger with CO2 and then overpower the rats instead of just tossing them into a strong mixture of CO2 (which can cause the rats to panic and gasp for air cause they just never get enough oxigen off the bat).

I come back in 15 minutes to half an hour (this is a good time to clean cages) and package the rats for freezing.

Hope this helps.

Oh ya, be careful with the dry ice and the CO2 it generates. It can kill you or any other oxygen breathing creature like it killed the rats, and you won't even notice, you'll just feel tired.
If you have left over CO2 try to dispose of it safely.

[Gregg M]

I either break their necks or let my snakes do the dirty work....... I am a lover of all animals....... Even rats...... I want to do it the quickest way possible so the breaking of the neck is the most humane way to me........

[crazyboy]

get a pellet pistol.

[Lisa]

Originally posted by crazyboy
get a pellet pistol.

{sarcasm}
There's a great idea, put lead shot into the food items for your snakes.... so either you give your snake food poisoning or you have to dig out a piece of lead from the rat - sounds like fun.
{/sarcasm}

[Wizwise2000]

Scared to use CO2 now.

Cheers
Shane

[snakeylesnake]

co2 is fine to use. but because its heavier than the air we breath, it will sink to the floor if it escapes. so dont do ur laces up if you think it is leaking. the gas chambers i use are made from heavy duty rubbermaids and the tube that feeds th co2 in is insulated with tape to ensure an airtight fit. once i have the right number of rats in the chamber (depends on size of rat) the gas is turned on for about 15 - 20 seconds. it will usually render them unconscious within 10 secs. after a bit of natural reflexes they stop moving and are safe to take out and freeze or feed. always male sure they are dead, i know that sounds stupid but ive had one or two that i thought were dead only to come alive in the bag. not very nice to be surrounded by dead siblings. like other people have said, even though they are food, doesn't mean they have to be maltreated.
cheers
paul

[sapphire_moon]

It's not hard, and not scary.

You need a remote and a co2 canister. The quickest easiest thing to do is.

Do it outside or in an open area.

Attach the remote to the canister, put the hose in a rubbermaid, put the rats in, cover the rubbermaid with the lid (it won't go on all the way, but that should be fine.)
Add rats, turn on canister.

or if you want, put a small hole in the side of the rubbermaid, put the hose in the small hole, apply some sort of seal, like aquarium sealant, or something like that.

Then put another hole on the top of the lid.

I'm not sure how the last idea would work, I only seen it set up. I didn't see it in use.

I hope to get a set up in a couple of weeks to do some rats in.

[M_surinamensis]

Not sure if it matters much but I personally agree with Gregg... Quickly breaking the neck has always seemed to be the quickest way and quite humane.

Might be a time thing... Gassing feeder rodents was virtually unheard of for a hobbiest when I was new to herp ownership. Learning how to quickly and cleanly break the necks was the humane alternative to whacking the rodent off a wall or the floor... Breaking the neck has worked for decades though and done properly the rodent is dead before it even realizes what's happening.

[snakeylesnake]

i remember reading in books that the easiest way to kill rodents was to insert a needle into the spinal column. but because we can now humanely gas them more humanely i think that any other method is inhumane. greg maxwell states in his chondro book that he kills his feeders by starving them of oxygen. not very nice is it? big time breeder, small time humitarian
cheers
paul

[Wizwise2000]

What's a remote? And if it's done outside it's totally safe for us?

Thanks
Shane

[sapphire_moon]

Yes, it's totally safe if you don't inhale, lol.

This is a remote

http://www.paintball-discounters.co...-16104222054.e5


For those of you who said something about breaking their necks. Someone said that when they were new to the hobby it was quickest and most humane to learn to break their necks.

The key word there is LEARN. If you don't do it right, all you are doing is putting the animal through some pretty bad pain.

[M_surinamensis]

Sapphire, I hope to hell that wasn't some kind of attempt at critisizing my personal (Or Gregg's) experience and knowledge.

Breaking the neck of a rodent quickly and cleanly is really a very simple action. All it takes to learn how to do so is watching someone else do it once... The only way to mess up and leave the animal alive and in pain is to approach it squeamishly and fail to complete the required motion (there are a couple of equally quick methods).

The general point of my post being... Why screw around with CO2 chambers when there exists an equally humane, even quicker and FREE option for prekilling rodents prior to feeding or freezing?

Respect for living organisms is great... The modern crusade for "Animal Rights" can be taken way too far by otherwise seemingly well intentioned individuals who are simply ignorant of basic biology. If using a CO2 chamber makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside or somehow removes any residual guilt for ending one animal's life to prolong the life of another... then use it I guess. Just don't promulgate it as the only humane way of approaching the situation... doing so leaves everyone two steps away from having pet ownership banned right along with medical research and eating hamburgers.

Incidentally... it's just as easy to fail to properly euthanize a rodent using CO2 as it is when breaking the neck. If the CO2 is administered too quickly the animal panics... too slowly and it might not be dead when you remove it... Brain damaged but not dead. If the point of your post was to legitimately point out that one must take a bit of care and ensure they are competent before undertaking ANY form of euthanization, then you really should make certain that you explain the potential flaws and pitfalls in ALL methods.

Of course... I suspect your post was more the result of some kind of perverse morally induced need to proclaim your way as being superior without having any real knowledge of the subject matter or who you were dealing with but that's pure speculation on my part.

[crazyboy]

{sarcasm}
There's a great idea, put lead shot into the food items for your snakes.... so either you give your snake food poisoning or you have to dig out a piece of lead from the rat - sounds like fun.
{/sarcasm}

lol.. i was just joking. i would definelty go with the co2.

[Gregg M]

Seamus,
There are not too many of us old school herpers around......LOL...... What some of these new school herper have to understand is that some of the "older" methods are the best methods....... I agree that hesitation will indeed make an animal suffer sometimes but as stated, if you see it done one time, you know how to do it....... I do it with no guilt because I know that this rat or mouse is being killed to keep another alive...... I do not feel good about killing them but my snakes need to eat........ Besides, what is the differance if you put it in a gas chamber or break its neck????? You are still killing it......... Anyway, dont knock our way of doing it........ You get the same result but our way is quicker......

[Gregg M]

i remember reading in books that the easiest way to kill rodents was to insert a needle into the spinal column. but because we can now humanely gas them more humanely i think that any other method is inhumane. greg maxwell states in his chondro book that he kills his feeders by starving them of oxygen. not very nice is it? big time breeder, small time humitarian
What do you think gassing them does????? It takes their oxygen away......... And sticking a needle in the spine will not always cause it to die....... All this other stuff is just a waste of time........ You can break its neck in 1.3 seconds flat....... Do not believe everything you read......

[Wizwise2000]

Is there a site that shows how to break their necks?

Thanks
Shane

[sapphire_moon]

In no way was I critisizing Greggs knowledge or technique. I respect his opinons to much.
I happen to agree that breaking the necks is a good way to kill the rats, IF you don't mind the hands on approach. :D

I was just saying, gassing is best if you don't like the hands on approach.

I hate the hands on approach. It's to........hands on! lol.
Now if It's "doing in day" and a rat bites me, thats another story!

But Wizwise said they didn't want a hands on approach because they didn't even like killing a fuzzy hands on. So I figured breaking their necks was the last thing they would want to do.



EDIT:
Actually my post was about MY opinion on how I want to kill my rats. And I was only putting MY THOUGHTS out there for Wizwise to consider, Along with Greggs thoughts, and yours as well.

Killing is killing, whether you whack, break their necks, gass, or just use some morbid way of killing the rat like suffocation (as someone on another post put) in saran rap in water or something like that.

[Linds]

My advice is condition yourself to the idea as best you can. In the beginning it can be difficult to bring yourself to kill them, but with time and discipline you get yourself used to it. If you really cannot handle hands-on, then the only other "humane" method is co2. I personally wack or snap necks of older rodents, I pinch the brains back in to the bodies of the pinkies. "Humane" and doesn't cost a penny :)

Originally posted by snakeylesnake
greg maxwell states in his chondro book that he kills his feeders by starving them of oxygen. not very nice is it?

Originally posted by Gregg M
What do you think gassing them does????? It takes their oxygen away.........

All depends on the method of oxygen deprivation whether or not it is "nice". Gassing (done correctly) is painless - the animal should just become dizzy, lose consciousness, then die. Drowning on the other hand, that is one of the worst ways to go. It may take minutes and the animal is in full panic the entire time (you know what I am talking about if you've ever been at the bottom of a pool and run out of air... and think how long those few seconds to the top seemed?).

[Gregg M]

WizWise,
I do not believe there is a site that shows you how to kill a rat....... Well not with pics anyway....... I think that would give these animal activist ammo for their silly little cause to shut down the pet trade........As stated by Sapphire Moon, gassing would be the best if you do not want the hands on approach......... Like I said, I love all animals, furry, feathered, and scaled And do not think the other bad methods like drowning or suffocation, or pellet gun or a needle in the spine or freezing should never be an option........ If gassing is done right, is a good method........ For me the best method is breaking the neck...... Another thing to consider is that freezing rodents can have an impact on its nutritional value....... Freezing will break down some protines that are very important to maintain good health in your reptiles....... Fresh killed is allways the best for your snakes....... That is another reason why breaking the neck is a good option for me.........

[Jayson]

Gasing is the same as depriving the animal from oxygen. If you put an animal in a air tight room, it slowly runs out of oxygen and gets drowsy and passes out. All the gas does is speeds it up by actually eating up the oxygen that is already in the blood stream.

If you hold your breath long enough you dont feel any pain however you do panic untill you are unconcious, and at that point if you do not start getting oxygen again then your body start to shut down one organ at a time leaving your brain last to die.

If you are in a air tight room you take away some of the panic because you are actually still breathing but because with every breath there is less oxygen in the room you get sleepy and pass out. The getting sleepy and passing out is the bodies way of conserving the little bit of oxygen that is left in your blood to prolong live as long as possible.

[BurmGuy87]

Very interesting Jayson....thanks:)

[Wizwise2000]

I'll be whacking them for now, I will eventually set up a gas chamber. Thanks for all the responses everyone, greatly appreciated:)

Thanks
Shane

[YummyCdnMale]

LOL get a pellet gun?????????<<<<<< hell why don't you just go one step stupider and feed them rat poison.....DUH!!!!!

[Vengeance]

Gasing is the same as depriving the animal from oxygen. If you put an animal in a air tight room, it slowly runs out of oxygen and gets drowsy and passes out. All the gas does is speeds it up by actually eating up the oxygen that is already in the blood stream.

Is this an acceptable method? I don't have to kill rodents right now but in the event I ever had too this seems like a inexpensive way of doing it was well as humane. May take a while longer then a gas chamber, but I got time. Any thoughts on this process?

[vanderkm]

Suffocation from putting an animal in an enclosed container is not the same as killing with CO2 and is not an accepted humane method of killing.

CO2 gas, when given correctly, results in rapid loss of consciousness so the animal passes out quickly before it suffers from being deprived of oxygen.

Suffocation from being placed in a closed container causes the CO2 buildup to be very slow and the animal experiences the distress of being deprived of oxygen and struggling to breathe before it becomes unconscious. This can be a prolonged process and is certainly not as humane as breaking their neck or blunt trauma to destroy the brain.

CO2, cervical dislocation and decapitation are considered humane methods to kill rodents by organizations like the Canadian Council on Animal Care.

mary v.

[YummyCdnMale]

Take them by the tail.... then wack there head on a table etc. takes seconds and is over very fast and simple would you like to die fast or aganizingly as to be gased to the point your lungs burn literaly? I think the older method of breaking there necks would be the most humain way no?

[sapphire_moon]

It would be humane. But in a situation where you have no one to show you how to do it properly, then you could possibly just end up injuring the animal (Especially if it is a large rat).

Gassing does not burn the lungs. If done properly it puts them to sleep first, then they die. It is the most humane way of killing rats (as said by labs, I had a website for it, but deleted it)

[Siretsap]

what is the use of decapitation on your rat that you wnat to feed to your snake?

just wack it on a table. If you kill hundreds at a time, use the co2 method.
if you kill 5 or 10 at a time, well wack or cervical dislocation.
as for babies, wack too, or gaz if you kill many or freese if you have 5 or 10.

[sapphire_moon]

Just flick pinks/fuzzies on the back of the head, or break their necks. Don't freeze them, and it's pointless to gas pinks because they have a gasp reflex. I think it's inhumane to just toss them in the freezer!

I'll soon be having about 20 or more/less rats to kill soon, and I will be gassing them.
PLUS some people (including me) just don't like the hands on approach. Not saying it's wrong way to do it. servical dislocation, and whacking work perfectly fine. Some people just don't like to do it.

[Cas]

Just for interest's sake..... here's the link to the American Veterinary Medical Association's recommendations for euthanasia: http://iacuc.cwru.edu/resources/euthanasia.pdf (the tables at the bottom are a good summary).

Dawn

[Will]

Back to the original question of using pure Oxygen to kill rodents. Nobody seems to have mentioned(as far as I could see quickly browsing the responses) that pure oxygen is extremely flammable, and in my opinion, probably isn't a good thing to have around unless you know what you are doing. CO scares me, never used it but I've heard bad things. Personally, I'd rather use the CO2 in a ventilated area rather than having pure oxygen all around me...

[Lisa]

One thing with using a CO2 tank... I inquired into getting a tank from praxair the other day... here were the costs (in canadian funds).

Tank lease $50/year (20 pound tank)
Tank fill $30 (probably last a year)
Regulator $120 (required, the gas is under extream pressure, and most likely to blow anything in it's path out of it's way.)

I opted for the dry ice because it's free, I only need a pound and they can't be bothered to write up a receit for that.

btw, a pound of dry ice is alot of dry ice, if i have to store it it lasts about 24 hours.

[C.m.pyrrhus]

I have switched over from whacking to using dry ice as well. It is simply to easy not to use this method as a way to dispatch rodents. It, for me, is a lot easier than whacking. Buying dry ice here you must be 18 years of age...but otherwise it is cheap, simple and stress-free. It is $1.09 where I purchased it.

I simply take about a pound of dry ice, place it in a tub with a lid (such as a larger used margerine tub) and a few holes placed into the lid. Place this, with the rodents into a larger rubbermaid container and lid.....and presto....a humane and simple way to kill off feeder rodents. Takes all but about 15 minutes at most. No blood or mess. Just freshly dispatched prey for the freezer. I do not see why anyone would be scared to use this method...? Pure oxygen, by the way...is very dangerous for anyone to use. CO2 will do nothing cept dispatch prey and make some cool fog effects.

[Cruciform]

Well, it's still dangerous too.

ALWAYS use in a well ventilated area. And if you're going to be usng it indoors, never do so when you're alone. Have someone check in on you periodically.

The gas pools in low lying places so you want to make sure that it doesn't build up in the corner your cat likes to snuggle up in too.

[Vengeance]

Where do you buy Dry Ice?

[Auskan]

Originally posted by Siretsap
what is the use of decapitation on your rat that you wnat to feed to your snake?

just wack it on a table. If you kill hundreds at a time, use the co2 method.
if you kill 5 or 10 at a time, well wack or cervical dislocation.
as for babies, wack too, or gaz if you kill many or freese if you have 5 or 10.

No-one's talking about decapitating. Breaking their neck does not decapitate them.

Edit: A couple of people mentioned that in their opinion, breaking the neck is more humane than whacking. Not sure why this would be so? I whack (put them in an opaque cloth bag & whack against the edge of a table) and it seems to be pretty much instantaneous death.

[Cruciform]

Vengeance:

Lisa mentioned Praxair. http://www.praxair.com

They're a fairly big company so they should have a location near to you :) My father dealt with them a lot and they've got a good reputation for customer service.

[MouseKilla]

Ya know what works really well? Here's a truly Canadian solution. The little piece of wood that comes off a hockey stick when you cut it down to size. I had a nice piece about 1 foot long that came off my daughter's hockey stick and I just taped up one end of it like you would if it were an entire hockey stick.

I've tried the gory bag method and it's just too clumsy and inaccurate. I can't be bothered to build any gas chambers or find sources for gas or dry ice because I only kill maybe a dozen or so rodents at a time. I just pick them up one at a time by their tails, wait till they naturally look up and BLAM! End of story, bag it and weigh it and toss it in the freezer.

I can't believe how difficult and complicated some people make this stuff. I would switch to a gas chamber method of some kind if it got to be hundreds of kills in a session but other than that I say don't be a little girl about things, just pick it up and kill it like a bug. It's not the most pleasant thing to do at first but after a while it's so routine and quick you don't give it a second thought. Why make it harder than it needs to be?

[Vengeance]

Thanks, yea they have a location in Scarbrough that's close to me. Will be good to know when and if I ever have to kill rats. Don't like the idea of whacking or neck breaking, dry ice seems like a good alternative.