View Full Version : Live Rats Edmonton????
Well, having three BP's that won't eat anything that isnt' moving has now become problematic, kinda. Both my females are eating now 2 adult mice a week. No problem but I would rather give them one sm/med rat or even a gerbil if I could find them live adn available somewhere, not extremely overpriced would work too!! LOL. Thanks anyone/everyone.
m1k3_88
03-08-04, 08:14 PM
I wouldnt feed them gerbils, ive heard that alotta balls fed gerbils will then only take gerbils, and it can get quite expensive when they're adults.
Invictus
03-08-04, 08:42 PM
It is absolutely impossible to get live rats in Alberta, as they are EXTREMELY illegal here because of the pest control act. Even if you could find any live ones, I don't think you'd want to face the fines if someone reported it to fish & wildlife. I hear they can be VERY punishing.
The university uses live rats in labs, I know I have bought them frozen previously from them. They only sell them dead though, they use CO2 to kill them. I guess I'm stuck with gerbils. I have fed mine young gerbils before and had no prob going back to mice. I may definately have to start breeding though if that is what I have to feed, or tell my sister to get some more!!
west hill herp
03-08-04, 08:52 PM
What they don't know whont hurt them.
Hahahaha...... Alberta is rat free, yup so they claim. RIGHT. I have known of people who kept them as pets in the past and they do exist here, maybe they don't get as big as the ontario ones but they aren't mice that is for sure. DH has seen them a couple times downtown, when having to bus it. I wouldnt' want to breed them myself though I don't like the stink of mice let alone a jumbo size mouse!! LOL. So what would be best then, multiple mice from a petstore I'm looking at $2.50 a piece anyway and I can get gerbils there for about $5.00. Unless there is a private mouse breeder in Edmonton, that sells cheaper. In the summer I am willing to make the drive out of town and buy them for $1.00 a piece cause I will buy enough for 2 months and keep them outside in a cage until I need them, won't keep them in the house though, too stinky.
Cruciform
03-08-04, 10:17 PM
Rats aren't nearly as strong smelling as mice. One male mouse will outstink a male rat any day :)
when they get bigger you can feed baby rabbits, or possibly guina pigs.
Toirtis
03-09-04, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by nita
Hahahaha...... Alberta is rat free, yup so they claim. RIGHT. I have known of people who kept them as pets in the past and they do exist here,
It has happened, but the fines range into six-figures, and although the authorities may be fairly lax on enforcing the F&W regs, the rat thing has been very strictly enforced since the 1930's....just not worth the risk.
Slannesh
03-09-04, 12:26 PM
Nita, there are a few relatively local feeder breeders that are around. Since I only have one Ball myself feeding hasn't been a horribly expensive thing but getting rats can be a problem since there won't be anywhere you can buy them live or reliably since they are illegal in Alberta. Your best bet is to have them shipped from BC or Saskatchewan.
There is a breeder that brings a cooler full of frozen feeders in for the ERAS meeting the third tuesday of the month. His prices from what i've seen are more than reasonable and i'm actually going to be putting an order in with him for gerbils myself for next week.
If you'd like to get in touch with him as well his name is Neil from Snakey Acres and you can reach him at
nmweldon @ connect.ab.ca
(take out the spaces)
Big Mike
03-09-04, 12:53 PM
It's so much easier to feed F/T. It's also safer for the snakes. Even if they don't eat for a few weeks/months...I'd suggest that you try to get them eating F/T.
Once you do that, there are lots of options for getting frozen mice/rats/rabbits etc.
Then you don't have to worry about stinky live rodents and having to look after them. Of course you have to live with frozen rodents in your freezer.
I do wish that mine would eat frozen but I have been unsuccessfull with my attempts. I know Neil and Michelle quite well from ERAS and for quite a while. Neil depleted his adult stock pretty badly last summer and doesn't have live I've asked. I think my snakes are still to small for rabbit pinkies and not to mention what a pain to drive out for those once a week!! I will be looking into gerbils though. Thanks all.
Tortoise man
03-09-04, 09:40 PM
Isnt't it too cold to have thse kinda thing live in Edmonton,
LOL, Just kiddin around ,you guys had one heck of a winter eh!
CHRISANDBOIDS14
03-09-04, 09:49 PM
Nita and Slannesh. I believe all three of us are members of ERAS. I myself breed mice, well im starting but I plan to have an output of about 1000 mice every 20 days. I belive I have the lowest prices for mice in alberta with my individual pinkie prices beating the 1000 lot price for pinkies from other large distributors. I am going to start carrying all sizes in about 2 months. Contact me for pricing.
Chris
BTW. The university has special permits and facilities and all that to keep the rats.
Big Mike
03-10-04, 10:29 AM
Nita,
If you are thinking about gerbils, ask Mary V. (if you haven't already) I remember that she said she bred gerbils and was feeding then to her kings & corns.
Mike is that the Mary who was previous treasurer?
Big Mike
03-10-04, 04:13 PM
That's her. She is a member here at sSnakeSs.com...Vanderkm
Slannesh
03-10-04, 05:01 PM
Sorry to hear that your ball is so picky Nita. Hopefully your quest for live works out for you. I assume you've tried F/K or stunned with poor results?
My GF worked at the University for years and was concerned that anyone would be selling frozen rats out of their labs. It's very against regulations. Not to mention that you may not know what sort of project they were working on. I forget the name of the regulatory body but the GF said that all live animals that are euthanized as a result of research are supposed to be frozen and then incinerated according to the regulations. I assume she knows what she's talking about since she did work with live rats on several of the projects she's worked on over the years.
gonesnakee
03-10-04, 05:42 PM
You claim someone you know has seen them in downtown EDM? I say B.S. lets see the proof. Anyone you know that keeps them as pets is very foolish based on the upto 1 millon dollar fine. I have lived in AB my whole life (as has my Dad) & no one I/he know(s) has ever seen one live or in the wild either in Cities or in buildings at farms, acerages, ranches etc. EVER even when looking for them specifically. I'm talking feedlots, barns, grain bins & elevators, everywhere. I think your friend has a very vivid imagination. I'm not saying its impossible but very unlikely indeed. If Alberta did have live Rats Edmonton would be the City to find them in though, heh heh LOL Mark
P.S. "Stupid" BPs anyway eh, mine are the same DOH!
vanderkm
03-11-04, 03:34 PM
Hi Nita - sorry to have missed this thread until today - have been out of town for work. I bred gerbils extensively as feeders (for troublesome ball pythons when we had them) and while I don't have any live stock any more, you can certainly get in touch with me for breeding information. Gerbils are quite different from rats or mice in terms of breeding set ups but they have almost no smell - very easy to breed but expensive - they waste a lot of food and have a slow growth rate. I would encourage you to get more advice on converting your ball pythons to killed (perhaps fresh killed first) but know how hard that can be - if you want more info on gerbils let me know.
I agree with those who have posted about rats being illegal and the fines being taken seriously - not worth the risk to keep them here -
mary v.
Slannesh
03-11-04, 03:38 PM
I'd actually be interested in getting some breeding info for Gerbils myself Mary... I used to keep a small colony of mice for my ball when she was smaller but she's long outgrown mice now...
Thanks Mary I would like to get some info on Gerbil breeding my older sister has them as pets for her kids but has had no luck breeding them. I also would never keep rats, my mom's friend from when she lived up north on the farms used to keep them as pets. I'm a stickler for the law myself :) Most of the time :P
I have tried FK and FT but they don't take them, although Isis and Osiris will take stunned Demetae won't touch it unless it is moving she ignores it until it starts crawling around and then zeros in on it.
vanderkm
03-14-04, 07:54 PM
Finally getting back to info on gerbil breeding - they are monogamous and highly territorial - will kill other gerbils they are not familiar with so it can be a long hard process to set up breeding pairs if you start with adults - they need lots of time to get to know each other from separate cages close together.
Start with some that are newly weaned and put one pair per 10 gallon tank. They chew a lot, so plastic tubs are risky - they will chew their way out. A metal water bottle guard is a good idea - they don't drink much, but should have access to water. I had better luck with aspen than pine bedding - babies have leg problems if kept on slippery surfaces, and eye and respiratory problems occur with pine or cedar bedding. Paper products like carefresh work well but are too expensive for feeder rodents.
They need a wheel - have tons of energy and if they don't have a wheel, they will take it out on the corners of the tank. Lots of bedding for digging is a good idea. They chew and dig a lot, and actually chew up food blocks - not eating them - just turning them into dust! Quite expensive in feed costs for gerbils.
A good pair will produce 4-8 babies every couple months. Wean the babies when they are 4-6 weeks old - that is about the only age you can safely mix gerbils that don't know each other. I put males from one litter in with females from another at weaning time and could pick my replacement breeders from those tubs without fear of inbreeding. The youngsters will not usually start breeding until a pair is removed and isolated. This works well because you can grow them to quite a good size without worrying about girls getting pregnant, and you can pull replacement pairs from your feeder tub if you need them.
If the babies are left with the parents, the parents will usually tolerate them, even when they are raising another litter, but the youngsters will not breed, and they won't establish colony breeding very readily. Some parents will try and drive the youngsters away and they can be very aggressive - they will kill them - so best to wean to separate tub.
They need only spot cleaning weekly - they use the corners of the tank - very clean and not smelly, but the growth rate is slow and they are dusty to keep around due to all the chewing and digging. I really enjoyed keeping them - we had Siames and Burmese - sold some to Neil and Michele (Snakey Acres) and he may still have some of those lines. They had good temperaments and were very productive - some lines have small litters and are too aggressive,
best of luck,
mary v.
Slannesh
03-14-04, 09:45 PM
Great.. thanks for the info Mary!
Toirtis
03-15-04, 12:27 AM
Amusing point....gerbils are technically illegal in Alberta. :p
Slannesh
03-15-04, 02:56 AM
Toirtis: How so?
Toirtis
03-15-04, 04:12 AM
When the Alberta F&W regs were written in late '97-early '98, Jirds (Genus Meriones) were listed under the controlled species schedule, but due to an oversight, someone forgot to exclude Meriones unguiculatus, the common gerbil. So technically, since March 1998, gerbils have been illegal in Alberta.
Another interesting technicality is that all animals (and their young) of any species whose adults commonly exceed 10 kg are illegal to possess in Edmonton (under the most recent Edmonton bylaws), which could, technically, include common boas, blood pythons, large tortoises, etc (even red-tail catfish, for that matter).....even if the spirit of the law was to restrict large mammals and birds.
can you tell me where I might find a listing of edmonton bylaws for animals??? Thanks.
Toirtis
03-15-04, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by nita
can you tell me where I might find a listing of edmonton bylaws for animals??? Thanks.
Here:
http://www.edmonton.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_263_209_0_43/http://CMSServer/NR/rdonlyres/EBF7981F-801B-4A53-B32B-2C8E4A584169/9702/13145.doc
The herp-relevant sections are: Part V, 27(1)(a), as defined by Part I, 2(f); and Part V, 27(1)(d).
Boy that knocks the selection for edmontonians down a bit. They certainly don't carry out the bylaw with respect to reptiles anyway. BCC are one of the most commonly sold snakes in Edmonton, I see them in the pet stores all the time. I've seen Bloods on the rare occasion too. Scary thing is if we try to bring it to light to get it changed all they would probably do is crack down and enforce the stupid thing!! Politicians for ya.
Slannesh
03-16-04, 02:25 AM
Strange about the gerbil bit...
Nita: I was sorta wondering about that myself because they do make special exception for domestic dogs and cats. I don't have any large snakes myself at the moment but it's sucky to know that they're technically illegal.
I get a kick out of this section...
ANIMALS ON PUBLIC TRANSIT 30 Subject to section 13(4), no person shall have an animal in any transit vehicle or facility of the City unless:
(a) it is within a fully enclosed carrier;
(b) it is carried by the person at all times; and
(c) the full adult fare is paid for the animal.
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