The correct way to freehandle a hot...... Pics..... [Archive]

Ed_r

03-05-04, 08:59 PM

Bill Haast(sp) even though its not recomended. They say In a pinch they have used some of his blood for part of the making of some exotic hot envenomation treatment because of its properties. not sure how much of that is true.

Just remember this post seems to have been made in jest.

cobraman

03-06-04, 12:36 AM

"What about "Cobraman"... In his gallery, he has a bunch of pics of him freehandling hots... unless he takes daily shots of antivenom cocktails, I think it's very dangerous and irresponsible. Why not be safe, and handle them properly? I'd really like to know."

627, The pics of me "free handling" are for entertainment purposes only. I DO NOT condone free handling hots. I self immunize with 9 different venoms (since 1991) and am relatively resistant to the venoms of the snake I handle. This factor may or may not justify what I do, or how I do it, but I do what I do and I won't judge you (by calling you irresponsible) for whatever you do. As Lt. Charlie Dennis said after my last cobra bite "The way I see it, the only one you present a danger to is yourself".

I am NOT going to get into a pissing contest with any self rightious handlers. You do what you do, and as long as I don't endanger others, I will do what I do. Again, I do not condone the free handling of venomous snakes, and with the exception of Bill Haast, I refuse to be around anyone that free handles hots. When I allow people to take photos of me with a venomous snake, I am more than aware of the calculated risk I am taking. I stock antivenoms, and self immunize. These are the same precautions Mr. Haast takes, and yet I don't hear anyone calling him irresponsible or making an issue out of his free handling.

All the very best to you,
Ray Hunter a.k.a. Cobraman

Gregg M

03-06-04, 08:27 AM

Hey Ray, for some reason, you are the only one I cant get mad at here for freehandling hots.......LOL Maybe it has something to do with the fact you self immunize and worked with Bill........ Hey Ray I have a question......... Have you tried self immunization with viper venom????? I would think if you used something like Bitis venom you may be resistant to to the cyto and nurotoxic part of the venom but would it keep the tissue from becoming necrotic????? Just curious...... I am not qualified to inject myself with gaboon venom......LOL.....

672

03-06-04, 10:53 AM

Still, I don't understand why you would risk your life (unless it's a snake you're immune to) to freehandle venemous snakes like you do...

jay72

03-06-04, 11:34 AM

I think that the whole freehandling subject can get blown out of proportion. What does one consider feehandling? The other night we had to forcefeed an EDB. The snake was pinned and tube fed. Is that freehandling? We had both hands on it. In some of Rays pictures he is handling large cobras. When working with large 14' 20+ pound King Cobras, it is sometimes easier to get both hands on it rather than use a hook. Using a hook with a snake like that can get cumbersome. I am not saying that these snakes should be handled like nonvenomous, and anybody who attempts that without an understanding of what they are doing is putting themselves at great risk.

For the post by 672; It is not for you to say that Ray is irresponsible until you have worked around snakes like that and have an understanding of the snakes behavior.

Sloane Russeck

Gregg M

03-06-04, 11:40 AM

Jay, I would not consider what you did with the EDB freehandling...... It was restrained....... Freehandling is when one reaches into a cage and picks up a hot like it was a non-hot......

Mustangrde1

03-06-04, 12:32 PM

It must be getting close to spring again the forums are heating up much like are weather.

Freehandling is always a fun topic had to go bring it up didnt you Gregg. And some would call freehandling the hadnling of a reptile free of any safety instruments.So yes restraining can be called free handling. Holding a Crot in a restraint or any other hot while sticking a tube down its throat to feed it may even be more dangerous then those who hold a snake unrestrained as the restraint is uncomfortable and the snake may try more so to deffend itself.

As to what Ray does. His knowledge and understanding of venomous reptiles and there actions afford him a much higher degree of safety then most along with his self immunizations. HE WILL NOT PUT OTHERS IN DANGER. As he himseff said its for entertainment value. Then again so is JACKASS care to stand in front of a car and get hit... I would bet you wont do that but sure laugh at the idiots who do. Enjoy the pictures and the entertainment . Use COMMON SINCE...........Dont get me going on this or im bring up 2 real stupid people that like to do it on TV which certainly influeances children and drunk rednecks lol...

jay72

03-06-04, 12:40 PM

Scott,

That would not be Steve Irwin and Austin Stevens now would it?

Sloane

KrokadilyanGuy3

03-06-04, 01:03 PM

Heh, I so got got.. Gregg, I though this isnt the right fourm, but you mentioned youve been stung multiple times by several species of scorpions.. Isn't there a safty measure when it comes to handling scorps, much like any other venomous animal? Just curious, Im bug(heh) illiterate anyways..
Xain

Gregg M

03-06-04, 01:03 PM

LOL...... Now ya did it....... Hey Scott, I gotta liven up the room somehow......LOL....... Hey Xain, I guess there is but I am not dealing with anything that hot....... If I was dealing with death stalkers or some species of androctonus I would be much more careful about how I handle them....... Forcepts would be what I would use on species like that........ I pretty much use my fingers to grab the tails when I need to move them....... I am very hands on with my scorps...... I am pretty much immune or used to stings from the species I handle.......... Never had a bad reaction yet....... Just feels like hitting your finger with a hammer for a few minutes....... I try to avoid getting stung by my parabuthus species as much as I can........ They hurt pretty bad....... There are not many species of scorpion that can kill you....... I only have 3 species that have been known to cause human fatalities.......... Arizona barks, Texas barks, and thick tailed spitters......... There usually has to be some other health issue inorder for you to have a really bad reaction to these species.........

Mustangrde1

03-06-04, 03:04 PM

Sloan :X

KrokadilyanGuy3

03-06-04, 07:37 PM

Awesome. Never really cared much for arachs, kinda wondered how one would handle them.. Thanks

Crotalus75

03-06-04, 08:34 PM

Hey Gregg,

What Parabuthus have you been stung by? I have heard that transvaalicus is the worst. I have only been nailed by Pandinus imperator and Centuroides vittatus. They were both less painful than a bee sting. I am very hands on with most of my scorps as well, but I definitely use forceps with ALL of my Androctonus!

I would say that the most toxic scorpions worldwide would be:

1) Leiurus quinquestriatus
2) Androctonus australis
3) Androctonus bicolor
4) Centruroides gracilis (Central American populations)

Any species from extremely arid regions are usually pretty bad This is probably do to water conservation. More potent toxin = less venom needed = fluid conservation.

Gregg M

03-07-04, 01:15 AM

Tad,
P. transvaalicus is the worst I have been stung by but not the worst out of all Parabuthus....... Hurts like he!! but normaly wont do any serious damage....... I have been stung quite a few times......

Hamster of Borg

03-07-04, 04:24 AM

Centruroides gracilis is no worse than vittatus. About the only time you're going to have a real problem is if you have an allergic reaction. :P

Ham

Gregg M

03-07-04, 09:33 AM

Actually,
There have been deaths attributed to C. vittatus....... It is actually considered the hottest US scorpion........ The are more potent than C. exilicauda......... C. hentzi and C. gracilis are on the lower toxicity scale of Centruroides....... There is a species of Centruroides that inhabits southern Mexico that is suppoesed to be very hot........ I would have to agree that the death stalker is the hottest scorp around...... I am pretty sure that A. bicolor would not make the top 5........ Another thing we are finding out is that scorpions may not use the same venom in defensive stings as they do in killing prey all the time....... Pretty interesting stuff........

Crotalus75

03-07-04, 12:45 PM

C. vittatus varies greatly in toxicity throughout its range. The northern specimens are more like a bee sting. Other more southern populations have been know to be quite a bit more dangerous. The same goes for Centruroides gracilis. The FL populations are not very toxic at all. The Central American form, however, is near the top of the LD50 list.

Crotalus75

03-07-04, 01:05 PM

Gregg,

I have seen numerous sources that say that all Parabuthus species are capable of spraying/flicking venom. I have personally never witnessed this with any of mine. Just wondering if you have experienced this with any of your specimens.

Gregg M

03-07-04, 02:13 PM

I never saw it either Tad and I have alot of P. trans..... Infact I do not know anyone that has....... I think it may be a last resort for them if stings did not make a predator leave it alone........ They are very quick to sting........

cobraman

03-08-04, 11:03 PM

"Still, I don't understand why you would risk your life (unless it's a snake you're immune to) to freehandle venemous snakes like you do..."

Well you have a good point. I don't understand why race car drivers drive so fast into walls, or why people jump out of a air craft, or why people pet sharks while they dive, or bungie jump, or or for that matter drive in cars. You know how many people die each year in cars? Injections of antivenom can save your life after a snake bite, but not when a drunk crashes into you head-on at 70 mph. Life is full of risks. I would not be at all surprised if you do things that I would not consider doing. I stopped trying to figure people out a long time ago.
Hope this helps ya some.
Blessings
Ray Hunter

TheRedDragon

03-09-04, 12:12 AM

Very well said Ray. :)

cobraman

03-10-04, 12:42 AM

Thank you. My soap box gave out under all my weight :)
Blessings
Ray

jtpRUGGER

03-10-04, 05:28 PM

just curious if this is how you handle your giant pigmy, scott...You said she is big...is she as big as this male?? By the way, I don't condone freehandling, with very frew exceptions, including photoshop.

Gregg M

03-10-04, 05:58 PM

Wow is that one of those horned pigmys???? Can you breed it to one of my femals so I can get some double hets for huge and horned?????? I will give you like 10,000 for stud services......LOL..... You should practice alittle more with your photoshop......LOL...... Not bad though.......

jtpRUGGER

03-10-04, 06:03 PM

Trying to not make pic look too good. I spent a little under a minute on that one. More for humor than anything. Although he IS my male, he is hardly that big. Nor has he sprouted any horns since I got him...I figure with lots of food, and the right amount of supplements (you DO give you snakes vitamins, etc., right?) he might grow some...lots of calcium??

Gregg M

03-10-04, 06:14 PM

Actually, I do not suppliment my snakes........ Never felt the need to do so........ They get everything they need from their prey........ No suppliments in the wild.......

jtpRUGGER

03-10-04, 06:21 PM

Really? I've regularly seen copperheads on our cattle ranch licking the salt licks..hmm.....Sorry, sometimes its hard to show sarcasm on the net. I don't supplement food for any of my snakes.

Cruciform

03-10-04, 06:22 PM

Heh, isn't that the pic from the giant grizzly?

Never mind :) Took an extra minute and looked for it. Not the same guy.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/5103.jpg

Gregg M

03-10-04, 06:24 PM

Thats why you gotta put {sarcasm} like that in your post.....LOL...... Sorry dude.....LOL

jtpRUGGER

03-10-04, 06:33 PM

Sorry, cruciform, not the same guy. That was actually me in the first pic "freehandling" my pigmy. Hes really only about 20" long, though. Nowhere near the female that Scott WILL give me some day...right scott? I'll beg.

Mustangrde1

03-10-04, 06:46 PM

NO YOUR NOT GETTING MY GIRL. Have i not told you she is heavily guarded. Be nice or you dont get the sister thats close to her size.

YummyCdnMale

03-12-04, 04:18 PM

I will stick to the Jack Daniels venom thanks *wink*

Cruciform

03-12-04, 04:33 PM

Jack Daniels venom? First we have to watch out for hillbilly's with banjos and now we find out they're poisonous? Jeez!

No more canoe trips with Jon, Ronny, Burt and Ned for me.

Mustangrde1

03-12-04, 05:10 PM

Ha You aint seen nothing. try driving down a state road and See a Airboat jump both lanes in front of you, Then as you stop in puzzlement you hear { HEY BUBBA WATCH THIS } and Poof another one. If you see Beer or Jack laying on the ground below the Mason Dixen line and there hear { HEY BUBBA WATCH THIS} RUN THE OPPOSITE WAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN LOL...

Mustangrde1

03-12-04, 05:13 PM

Awe I almost forgot one of my favorites.... As my wife and I were driving through Alabama to pick up our son, Along side the road were two gentlemen sitting in lawn chairs and drinking beer. Now this in itself was not funny but as we got closer we could see two women in the Van in front of them Pointing and shaking fingers at eachother and you could tell it was a fight. Obviously one that had been going awhile as the men already appeared to be on the secound beer. lol true story