Fiesty Albinos

[Classic]

Are your albino's aggressive? I would love to see your defensive poses. These two don't like to be disturbed much but are mostly fine once out of their enclosure.

I would love to hear some theories as to why the albino gyne seems to coincide with agressiveness.

Cal King
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1478Picture_013-med.jpg
A.Nelson
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1478DSC01916-med.JPG

Brian
HighWaterHerps

[marisa]

Maybe their vision is even less than a normal variety, making them more defensive?????????

Although this is probably way off and just a guess. LOL. Everyone says albino does nothing but change color, but I haven't seen any vision studies on albino morph snakes specifically. But obviously breeders wouldn't want to hear that news.

Marisa

[Tim_Cranwill]

Maybe because they are more visible and need the extra attitude to survive. :) I doubt there's anything different besides the color but I've also noticed the aggression in some of mine. Who knows!? :D

[vanderkm]

Many people seem to find albino cal kings more aggressive - certainly has been our experience - but our numbers are low - we only have one albino and one normal! The albino is quite intense - lots of strike poses but never bites.

I've posted these before but think he is pretty cute!
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6304_Jan_2_Elvis_reduced.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6304_Jan_2_Elvis_2_reduced.jpg

I have not seen or heard about albino aggression in other species - at least not consistently. Our albino jungle corn is much mellower than her normal brother and our albino and snow corns are some of the calmest.

I wonder if the genes for an intense or aggressive personality might be closely linked to that for albino in some species. When albino is selected for, the ones that are close to it on the chromosome end up being selected for too. This type of gene linkage effect has been demonstrated for other traits in livestock species - not sure about snakes though.

mary v.

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by marisa
Maybe their vision is even less than a normal variety, making them more defensive?????????


I think you're close with this guess Marisa. Tim's guess may be a little unlikely as the animal would have to be cognitive to both it's surroundings and it's own body colour and make a conscious decision to be more defensive, unlikely in a reptile (good idea nonetheless and is certainly valid until disproven).
Vision is made possible through photic excitation of photosensitive pigments. Any genetic anomaly that affects pigment production would likely also have an affect on the photosensitive pigments necessary for vision. If I were to explore this further in the lab my hypothesis would certainly be that a genetic inability to produce a specific pigment will affect the detectable range of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Interesting observation....
Ryan

[snakehunter]

RMB My head is spinning!

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by snakehunter
RMB My head is spinning!

LOL, reworded: I just think that amelanism affects the range of light that the eye can detect.
R

[marisa]

I wonder what implications it would have it we did in fact find out vision is changed or not as good in albinos as it is in regular versions?

Obviously the albinos grow, reproduce and become healthy adults. But if it was a fact that albinisim can cause poor vision then wouldn't that be a difficult moral problem? I myself don't like venemoids, and I certaintly couldn't put them down while at the same time breeding animals known to have poor vision because of a trait I am breeding into them. Two different issues obviously, but both have a core of a human changing an animals natural defenses. Although then again, they do grow into producing healthy animals.

Marisa

[Will]

RMBolton: Thems are alot of big words - give me a minute...

If albinos Cals are more aggressive overall, I couldn't tell you why, but I thought I'd throw it out there that my 2 females are complete dolls. I do know that their mother(an albino) was a spazz and I'm sure Mark Isbell could back that up

I've heard this conversation regarding Cals a few times before, but never any other species, I'd be interested in hearing if anyone here has noticed this in other Lampros, Colubrids or Boids, etc.

[Classic]

1

[sapphire_moon]

I've heard of this with albino/pew rats to. That if you watch them they sway a bit when standing still, so they can get their vision just right. I have noticed it alot in all my albino/pew rats, with my darker ones they do not sway at all.

Actually considering that albinos are a natural occuring "morph?". Then you aren't "making" anything. It was already there to begin with.

The only difference is, in the wild, they would have been killed quickly by predators. In captivitiy you give albinos a chance to live a full happy live (assuming they get a good keeper). Without having to "worry" about where it's going to get it's next meal and without having to "worry" about predators.

Did I confuse you yet? I'm sure someone lse will be able to word it better than I did.....lol

[Classic]

Makes perfect sense. But, I noticed that most of my rats sway. I watched a show on National Georaphic awhile back about rodents. They said rats have relatively poor eye-sight. The swaying motion is how rats judge distance. For the agressive side of it though...i mainly have an even number of female rats(albino and normal) that will take a piece outta me if i give them the opporunity.

I also had a snow corn last fall that had a nasty demeanor.
I would have to say that all my other colubrids have not attempted to bite or even strike the pose.

Is there anything in the "Book" Roy?

Brian

[Dani33]

I had an amel corn that was a biter. I chose to get a corn as my first snake because they are docile - blah, blah, blah. She never outgrew it. She almost consistently rattled her tail when I opened her viv and she struck quite a few times. She is the only captive snake that I've been tagged by - lol. Anyhow, I occasionally wondered if it had to do with her being an amel. Maybe she was just an exception. I loved her anyway though. Bites from a corn aren't a big deal anyhow, can't even feel it really.

[Removed_2815]

I did some searches in our database and turned up some information on human albinism that is applicable to the topic at hand (research hasn't been done on reptiles as of yet, but the physiology is likely the same).
Standard disclaimer: I should apologize for my use of "big words" but I have been trained my whole life to convey the maximum amount of information in the minimum of space, so I suppose it is a habit and I realize it may come off as being pompous. If ever I become hard to understand, just ask for a clarification.

So, here is some of the information I was able to find (most of this information was compiled by Brenda Zea):
"Most human albinos have serious vision difficulties. Their eyes do not have the correct amount of melanin and during the fetal and infant stages of their life, this causes abnormal development of the macular hypoplasia (don't worry about these words), as well as abnormal nerve connections between the brain and their eyes (source (http://www.lowvision.org/albinism.htm)). Many human albinos are considered legally blind, or have such poor eyesight that they must use intensive prescription bifocals. While limited eyesight can be a problem, many albinos have multiple sight deficiencies as well. Often albinism can also come with a nystagmus of the eyes or strabismus (Nystagmus is where eyes tend to jump and jerk in all directions, while strabismus means that the eyes do not focus together as a binocular team, that is, an eye may cross or turn out) (source (http://www.lowvision.org/albinism.htm)). This often results in crossed-eyes or 'lazy eye' (source (http://www.albinism.org/)). Albinos may also encounter photosensitivity (sensitivity to light) or have astigmatism (distorted field of view). When the eye does not have enough pigmentation, it cannot keep out excess light, thus making people incredibly sensitive to bright lights as too much enters their eye (source (http://www.albinism.org/))."
So this all goes back to my original suggestion, unfortunately I realize I lost people in my wording.
Hope this helps :)
Cheers,
R

[Classic]

2

[Simon Sansom]

Hmmm...I wonder if the amels tend to be more "defensive" (let's make sure we use the right term here), because light hurts their eyes because of photosensitivity, as RMB has so eloquently stated.

For example; there you are, lying quietly and comfortably in your relatively dimly-lit cage, when a giant human suddenly opens the enclosure letting in enough light to be physically uncomfortable to you - you have no choice but to voice your displeasure and discomfort in the only way you know how, by an defensive display and possibly even biting.

I'd be curious to know if albino kings are any more manageable if handled under subdued lighting...??? I don't own any so I don't have any practical experience with them.

Just a thought...

Cheers all!

Simon