View Full Version : Well guys, I got banned from KS....... more......
Gregg M
03-02-04, 05:21 PM
All because I took my stand against venomoids....... I guess me telling people that the activities being done on the site are illegal is against TOS........ Oh well I think I am going to sit back and cry now.......LOL...... Not only am I going to go after the venomoid producers I guess I will see what kind of trouble KS can get into now for condoning the sale of illegal animals....... There is nothing but a bunch of tools on that site anyway........ Oh and not once did I ever say anything offensive or slanderous on the forum....... I conducted myself in the same manner I do here....... I guess the truth hurts.......
Janiman
03-02-04, 05:33 PM
A very hearty CONGRATULATIONS!!! I read the thread here last night and could not believe that there were people actually condoning venonoids! Let them rot in their own unethical behavior, and keep up the good fight. Exposing them for being the slime that they are can only make you look better.
F
Crotalus75
03-02-04, 05:35 PM
I got banned too!!!!! The truth always ruffles a few feathers. I signed back up under a new account though. hehe. Ya know it's really sad that a site like kingsnake refuses to stand up for whats right. They could really make a difference for these animals if they decided to do the right thing. What a sad joke. But the fight goes on.......
Crotalus75
03-02-04, 05:38 PM
After they ban all the diehards all they will have left is a bunch of punk venomoid wannabees that don't know a thing about real venomous herpetoculture.
Gregg M
03-02-04, 05:42 PM
Yeah, you seen my post....... Was there anything offensive in them????? I saw yours and did not see anything wrong in them....... The truth is hard for some to take....... Oh and you are excluded from the list of tools on the site.....LOL
Crotalus75
03-02-04, 05:47 PM
LOL....The truth always has its enemies. There was nothing but truth in any of our posts. The reason we were banned was because we were speaking the truth and kingsnake was afraid that we would open a few eyes to their BS. The true losers in this situation are the animals that will have to endure these awful hack jobs because KS refuses to help them.
Crotalus75
03-02-04, 05:51 PM
But I have a plan.....more later....MWAHAHA!!!
Gregg M
03-02-04, 05:58 PM
Me and Scott are working on something....... If you want you can e-mail me and I can give you the particulars...... We can work together to formulate our evil (actually a good plan to benifit hots) plot.........Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! !!
jtpRUGGER
03-02-04, 06:01 PM
Right on, Gregg. It's sad that a forum set up under the guise of education is more concerned with the business opportunities it is able to provide to its 'morally challenged' users. Good thing we still have ssnakess with moderators that still have their heads on straight. I just hope that newbies in venomous herpetoculture are able to find better forums to search for advice, such as this one. Crotalus 75, I look forward to seeing your new devious plan unfurl. Best of luck to you!
Mustangrde1
03-02-04, 06:14 PM
I too was bad and banned from KS but my post were not so well mannered as yours Gregg. I dont think they like hearring that contibuting to an illegal activity could have ramifications.
Not trying to stir anything up, but honestly mistakes happen even on this site, a year or so ago there was a mod trying to sell Illegal snakes here, it was an honest mistake and the add was removed, no harm done. you can't critisize a whole forum over one insedent, anyways good luck on the "evil" fight!
Crotalus75
03-02-04, 06:19 PM
It's good to see that there are other people out there that still care about these animals and are fascinated with them for what they are instead of damaging them in order to show off. The best to you all!!!
Crotalus75
03-02-04, 06:21 PM
Gregg,
I am definitely interested in the specifics, but I can't e-mail you for some reason. Send me a line if you would......Crotalus75@yahoo.com
Good luck guys. Though I dont keep venemous yet I completely believe in what you guys are fighting for.
Cheers, Ryan
Gregg M
03-02-04, 06:27 PM
Like you said Joe, the post was taken down........ This site is fair and the mods and the creator of this site are not blinded by dollar signs......... They have a free classified section for crying out loud........ This site is the best and is my home....... The other place was just a hangout with a bad crowd........ The point is it is being made clear that these animals are illegaly produced and the owner of the other site is just helping it along by allowing these ads to be on the site with no thought as to what is being said........ Thanks for all the support guys and girls.......
Mustangrde1
03-02-04, 06:31 PM
Tad my email works fine same name just add a @aol.com...
Joe KS has made it a very long standing policy to BAN people who do not agree with them. This has been long published on other sites. It is a shame however as they are so large if they simply said to all vendors you must have on your adds that the animals surgery was performed by a Licensed Veterinary Doctor and then be willing to furnish the vets name for verification it would go a long way to stopping these illegal deadly surgeries. But hey the money talks and their payment for right to use thier classifieds certainly fills the bills.
If all the venodor on that sight would stand up and say WE WILL NO LONGER BUY ADD SPACE OR PAY FOR YOUR CLASSIFIEDS SERVICES TILL YOU STOP ALLOWING VENOMOIDS. I will bet you they stop allowing it very fast as money is a powerful motivater.
Lol, hehe thsoe jerks, it'll come back to bite'em in the *** I'm sure... BTW jtp RUGGER, I love the nasicornis in your avatar.
Im not dissagreeing with what your fighting for or what have you, I just don't think it's fair to put down a whole site over one instance.. good luck with whatever it is you do!
Gregg M
03-02-04, 07:02 PM
Tad,
You got Mail...... :)
Mustangrde1
03-02-04, 07:05 PM
wait gregg to cold to mail them .. or mine best be in the mail
Campbellvenomou
03-02-04, 07:11 PM
Unfortunately Commercial gain often blinds people. Money has that effect sadly. It also does not help that KS has grown as exponentially over the years as it has. The growth has also taken place in a few egos, not just pocket books.
Joe as to it being isolated, it isn't. The venomoid issue is just one of many. Many species are offered for sale through Kingsnake that are CITES and Lacey Act violations when they cross state lines. Not to mention taxa advertised for sale from regions where those taxa are prohibited species.
I think that it is a good thing in life to have a stand in something you believe in. Further when that stand is made in regard to something as despicable as the butchering of snakes for the sole purpose of commercial gain.....the I only have one question...Where do I sign?
M_surinamensis
03-03-04, 02:29 AM
Kingsnake used to be something good once... It was made that way by the competent and educated people who chose to take their time and utilize the site to communicate with other individuals. The people who made Kingsnake aren't the Moderators or Jeffyboy, it's the people who took the time to answer questions and participate in hosted chats and advertise their animals.
Then Jeff decided that he was somehow making a major contribution to herpetology... instead of simply providing a place for others to do so. His ego got out of control and he somehow ended up thinking of himself as an indisputable master of internet herpetoculture. He invited in some serious psychotics to help him moderate and the entire thing has gone right down the crapper ever since.
Thankfully though he is slowly and surely alienating everyone who really did make his site a great fixture once. They leave... but remain active elsewhere. Sites like this one and fieldherpers and Fauna, all growing... all expanding, becoming better and better, more and more active.
Kingsnake may still have the highest number of web hits and use the most bandwidth, but it's falling. Slowly... but always moving downwards, with fewer hits every month than the one before. Other sites are increasing at an amazing pace, expanding almost exponentially as they fill with refugees from the KS totalitarian regime.
Mustangrde1
03-03-04, 09:48 AM
Well Said Seamus. We owe are thanks to people who run other sites with a more open mind. The Owner of this site asked us about breaking up this forum in to others and listened These Moderators allow subjects to go as far as they possibly can so long as they are fruitfull in content and participate in them not just edit the hell out of them. I think an big THANK YOU is in order to them and Jeff especially. Rich Z runs Fauna much the same way and cuddos to The Evil lOVE BOMBER and his Moderators for that site. You are right there are better places on the web now and many are leaving the dictatorship known as KINGSNAKE. With the banned list growing daily over there for people speaking their minds he is not only running people off that could be helpful and knowledgable he is banning people that can too. Self distruction of ones bussiness do to ego.
BWSmith
03-03-04, 10:51 AM
"Hi, my name is BW, and I was banned from KS"
"HI BW"
:D
Like most serious keepers, I have been banned from there several times as well. there are still some good people on the forums, but it is overunn with the ignorant and power hungry. The final straw for me was when a 14 year old kid was giving out Black mamba Care. uggh.
herpetological
03-03-04, 11:02 AM
I've YET to be banned from anywhere... However, i'm sure it's due to my COMMERCIAL input rather than my views...LOL's!!! Again the almighty dollar. Everyone here knows my stand on venmoids and it will not change. I've seen it first hand and have had to save the lives of these poor souls post op. Let me know what I can do.... Thanks Ray G. HBR
Dark_Angel_25
03-03-04, 11:04 AM
couldn't someone send the Link for the venomids to the fish and wildlife or something to that effect? If they are illegal and it is made known to government officials or something, could they not look into it either? Just a thought to maybe further your 'plan'...
Mustangrde1
03-03-04, 11:28 AM
Angel
Trust me I do not only the link but the seller and if possible the butcher. Along with their own states Law to show them they do have this law and need to proceed and fallow though with it this I send to their fish and game the USFW service regional office the veterinary licensing board and the local ASPCA branch of enforcement along with any other agency who may have juristiction. Problem is one persons voice is not enough.
drewlowe
03-03-04, 11:37 AM
Mustangrde 1 What can us non venomous keepers do to help, If we don't know all the legalities of it. If i had a shove in the right directions i would be willing to e-mail people or even snail mail.
Mustangrde1
03-03-04, 11:46 AM
Drew it is very simple actually. If you see a add on venomoids being posted just go to
http://www.law.utexas.edu/dawson/cruelty/cruelty.htm
Go to the bottom of the page find the state the animal is being sold from and then get the pertaining law/laws and send the add and the laws to all that states agencies.
Also contacting people you might know and say stand up and YELL do not support anyone who sells these animals or any site that sells them will put a major dent in it. Money talks and hitting in the money belt works.
I am no fool and relise fully we will never completely stop it but we sure as hell can put a major dent in the practice, if there is no demand there is no supply first laws of bussiness in reverse. Stop the Demand and the Supply will severally decrease.
Let's consider all sides of the issue here. Some of the folks in the anti-venomoid camp did get a bit hot under the collar, and their posts were deleted because they were personal attacks on the site owner and not reasoned arguments about its policies.
I did not read every post on these threads, but a few did come to my attention as being a remarkably rude way to ask anyone to do anything. Insulting someone is not a really good way to get them to do what you want, and I did see some of that going on.
My personal wish is that anyone dealing in venomoids should be bitten by a large cytotoxic snake in the most painful of private places so that they can more clearly understand what pain and suffering feels like. Obviously they don't have this understanding if they are able to mutilate animals for money. However I understand **************'s position on not wanting to interfere with the sale of any legally produced animal. I am hoping that they will agree to do a bit more checking as to whether or not animals are legally produced before allowing them to be put up for sale.
Mustangrde1
03-05-04, 08:24 AM
Daboia russelli to the groin comes to mind add a bit of Bitis gabonica to the worm in the middle for good measure. If the websites, magazinesand other outlits for sales of these mutilation stand up and say we will not allow it demand for supply will be seriously and drastically be cut. We can only hope for that day and fight to make it happen!!!
Crotalus75
03-05-04, 09:13 AM
"Daboia russelli to the groin comes to mind "
....Ouch!!! Bites from some D. russelli have been known to cause serious gonadal atrophy....seriously.....:)
Mustangrde1
03-05-04, 09:20 AM
Steroylization of shade tree butchers such a bad idea Tad? Then again with the main vein hit I suppose we could call that a true void lmfao
Crotalus75
03-05-04, 09:22 AM
LOL:) What goes around comes around..... I don't think we want some of those people reproducing anyway...
We do alot of talking and debating about this issue on these boards. What is actually being done to stop this procedure? Lets put something in motion. I am sure the void sellers have to be feeling some sort of pressure. It is obviously "cruelty to animals". How can we get these laws that have been posted enforced?
It is a very sensative issue. Attacking people like we all feel like doing because of our frustration is only going to put void keepers/sellers on the defensive. That is obvious by now. We need these laws enforced so we can back our position with legal ramifications.
Sloane Russeck
BWSmith
03-10-04, 09:47 AM
Actually, somehow using existing laws is better. If they write new ones, it is too easy to just say "to hell with it, let's just ban ALL venomous and be done with it"
Crotalus75
03-10-04, 05:01 PM
I am all in favor of action. I would volunteer to head something up, but I am swamped to the gills with my studies. Maybe if we could form some sort petition and circulate it throughout the herpetoculture and herpetology communities. Something like that could at least be a community voice to parties involved in the venomoid trade (dealers, hacks and the services that support them i.e. KS, etc..). It's not much but it would at least be a move toward action.
Tad,
I would as well. I think flyers with facts, statistics and laws should be made up and circulated at the different reptile shows like Daytona. It is something that the whole venomous community should get together and make a stand. I am sure alot of the dealers who dont deal in voids would be happy to participate.
Sloane Russeck
Mustangrde1
03-10-04, 06:51 PM
Ok everyone e-mail Ray Goushaw and ask him to sing Seminole Wind... oppss that Kareoke<sp> Ray and I will be getting together as soon as time permits to work on a petition. He has a cooler head then mine when it comes to something I tend to be very emotional about.
Crotalus75
03-10-04, 09:50 PM
Sounds great guys. Sloane, I think shows like Daytona, etc.. would be a very powerful platform for disseminating this information. Hank Molt and other key people there are already very antivenomoid. I wonder if a few of us could maybe even pool a few bucks and get a booth to display this info and pass out flyers, sell t-shirts.....etc... I am planning to attend Daytona this year...... Who knows..??????
I would always donate money to a good cause.
Sloane Russeck
Crotalus75
03-10-04, 10:18 PM
Would any of you guys be interested in getting a display/booth together? I think that with a handful of us involved in a project like this we could come up with some very good, very professional ideas. I wouldn't be opposed to working the booth myself as long as I had a few others that would work it with me.....
Snake Getters will have a booth at Daytona. We will be very glad to make information about venomoids available to people in accordance with our mission of venomous snake rehabilitation and rescue.
Crotalus75
03-11-04, 12:49 AM
Thats great, MsTT! Do you know what vendors are on the line up for Daytona this year? I heard that there are supposed to be more vendors than last year. I haven't seen much info on the 2004 show yet.
jtpRUGGER
03-11-04, 03:26 AM
It's great to hear such enthusiasm against venomoid procedures. Unfortunately, venomoid sellers already have their own petition, and it's a very powerful one: the list of venomoid buyers. I think disseminating information, particularly at the larger shows, is a great idea, however, I think giving out the info at the hot, AND not-hot shows is imperative. Doing that, in line with what other anti-void herpers are currently doing through legislative channels, is a great beginning to what will hopefully be the end of hot-mutilation. I'll sign a petition. I would be willing to help gather info for brochures.
Josh
I think we are all on the right track. We need to find out exactly what the void sellers petition is, where and who is selling voids. On the brochures and flyers we need to print responses to all of the silly justifications that void sellers and buyers make(like comparing it to spaying and declawing, practice for hots etc). I think that it is important to get this information on as many websites and shows as possible(without getting banned). It is also important that when debating/educating people on this issue we need to be professional. Blasting people and being insulting will work against us in getting our point across.
If anybody is in Florida and wants to set up a meeting and start to put get some kind of official game plan together I am all for it.
Sloane Russeck
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