By-Laws

[Cruciform]

I just found the by-laws for my city online, and they restrict the ownership of snakes to under 60 centimeters.

My female garter is already that long.

What is the most effective way to challenge the local by-laws?

[Lrptls]

dont get caught =)

[Cruciform]

Meanwhile the fines increase and the bans become more strict. I don't think so. I'm going to challenge it.

[marisa]

The problem with that IMHO is that unless you have your support all planned out, and plenty of it, and a really strong "case" then you can just create more tension in an already tension filled aspect of the hobby of keeping reptiles. I may be way off here. Then again the only way to get things to work out for us would be to speak up.

For myself, don't ask dont tell. No one knows or needs to know what I keep. ;)

Marisa

[Linds]

Pretty well the only ways around local bylaws are to be a registered business or zoo, or for education...

[claycoke11]

They won't do anything even if you are caught, they have better things to do and as long as they see you are taking the proper care of your animal they won't take him away only to be put in a worse home, or put down. The law probably only was made to stop people from owning those 10ft+ animals, and wasn't even ment for the little guys so don't even wrry about it.

[mykee]

I'm with Marisa, don't be brave, unless you're willing to lose your collection. No one needs to know what you keep. I live in an apartment, and if my neighbours, landlord, or building management knew what I kept, I would be in it deep.

[sleddergirl]

In my city, its illegal to keep any reptiles of any kind. I got a copy of the by-laws concerning animals from City Hall to make sure I always had my butt covered concerning my dog but as I read through all of them, it clearly states that its illegal to own any reptile or anything considered "exotic" which they go on to list.

My neighbour's son had a turtle and when the Animal Control came to her house to take a statement from her concerning another neighbours animals, they saw the turtle and removed it from the home. Maybe it depends on who the animal control officer is............I just keep my mouth shut about most of my pets.

[marisa]

The "don't ask don't keep" for me also covers keeping reptiles in plain view. IMHO this is just really foolish unless you live in an area where reptiles are legal 100%

I keep EVERYTHING I have upstairs behind closed doors.

Marisa

[WRX]

I just found the by-laws for my city online, and they restrict the ownership of snakes to under 60 centimeters.

Wow, thats a bit harsh. I know GTA has some lame law, but unless you cause a stir, I think you're safe. I used to like in Winnipeg, and they passed a by-law for 6ft and over. The person who came up with the list of snakes was a hooved animal guy from the Zoo. I called him and asked him about the smaller BCX species, and he had no idea they existed.! :eek:

Bill T

[Lisa]

Hiding is not the answer, educating and being vocal is.

[WRX]

Hiding is not the answer, educating and being vocal is.

I am not suggesting hiding, but, if your city has a by-law, don't go to the park with your Burmese Python and flaunt it. Its hard to educate people / "experts" who do not want to hear it.
But I agree, it would be nice if local authorities were more open to the whole herp hobby.


BT

[marisa]

Yeah and if I am the only "vocal" person in my area, then what happens to me when no one backs me up? I sacrifice MY collection? No thanks. Unless there is a large group effort, financial and legal support then there is no way I would be letting my city know what I keep.

Marisa

[mykee]

Laws or not, I think that a neighbour finding out you have unlawful reptiles can be a bigger pain in the *** then the city knowing. Best to keep them under wraps.

[Dani33]

Where I live it's illeagal to keep reptiles of any kind. When I got my first few, I didn't even think to check so I called after learning a bit more. Everything is illegal. There is a loop hole though. They can be sold in pet stores here. When I spoke to a woman there, she stated the above and pretty much said that it wasn't a big deal but they have the right to take them if there were complaints. Lesson, don't brag and don't let a 15 foot burm hang out in your front yard.

[Big_V]

Sleddergirl- Are you sure about that...the reptile store is based in Hamilton and they arent shut down...??
Yeah i wouldnt be challenging any bylaws by yourself. Try to rally some fellow herpers and no go it alone because your going to have to present a case that will want to change their minds. Get some "experts" and present a case that is knowledgeable and not this is BS. But its better to keep what I have on the Downlow and see what happens IMHO.
Cheers,
Ryan

[sleddergirl]

Big V - very sure, Paul from the Reptile Store and I have discussed it before. Pet stores, legal rescues, circus', etc. are exempt from the law. As was once pointed out to me, there is a small loophole in Hamiltons by-law........one of the other "things" that are considered exempt is worded in the by-law as a "menagerie" but they fail to give a legal definition of what that is exactly.

In Hamilton, its legal for a pet store to sell you a reptile, just illegal for you to own it..............:confused:

Makes no sense but..........as I said, if animal control ever comes my way, all my animals will be housed at my store in no time...:D

[Toirtis]

Originally posted by claycoke11
They won't do anything even if you are caught,

There are a few people that might argue otherwise....London, Ontario is known for strict enforcement of their bylaws, for instance.

[Toirtis]

Originally posted by WRX
I used to like in Winnipeg, and they passed a by-law for 6ft and over. The person who came up with the list of snakes was a hooved animal guy from the Zoo.

Yes, but the law was created/passed at the insistance of the municipality and animal control after two boas and one ball python were freed and caught roaming parks over a 5 week period in one summer.

[WRX]

Yea, and its a lesson.

Keep your snakes in the cage / backyard. As bad as we want to show em off, its a bad idea where there are laws to prohibit!


BT:)

[Lisa]

Originally posted by sleddergirl
Big V - very sure, Paul from the Reptile Store and I have discussed it before. Pet stores, legal rescues, circus', etc. are exempt from the law. As was once pointed out to me, there is a small loophole in Hamiltons by-law........one of the other "things" that are considered exempt is worded in the by-law as a "menagerie" but they fail to give a legal definition of what that is exactly.

In Hamilton, its legal for a pet store to sell you a reptile, just illegal for you to own it..............:confused:

Makes no sense but..........as I said, if animal control ever comes my way, all my animals will be housed at my store in no time...:D



That's as odd as surrey's law, where you can own but can not sell, buy, trade or otherwise aquire a reptile with in city limits.

[Iguanalady]

You need to get a hold of the city coucillors in person. Don't e-mail or use your computer. Open up your phone book and find out the phone numbers for your mayor and coucil. Phone them up and talk to each one in person. Find out who are the losers who would stand against you and who are the ones who are a bit on your side. There are always a few of both and then a few in the middle. Talk to each one and try to get across the reasons why this by-law needs changing. Always be reasonable and always have good sound reasoning. Dont just say it isnt fair, say its not logical because there are plenty of harmless snakes that are banned by the bylaw and you feel that, though regulation is a good thing perhaps some adjustments could be made to make a compromise so all sides could be happy. Tell them that you know a lot about reptiles and could be a guide to helping them come up with better guidelines as it is obvious that the person who did previously did not really know much about snakes and probably just picked an arbitrary size that sounded good. If you find certain councillors really open to what you say ask to meet them for lunch face to face so you can discuss it further. Ask them how you will go about getting the by-law changed and they can tell you how. Basically you will have to go to a council meeting and make a proposal but that should be done after you have had chats with everyone because you dont get much of an opportunity to convince them in a meeting and it will be all your out of the meeting discussions that will tip the scales so to speak.

Good luck

[monitor boy]

the thing i love about richmond hill is they have by-laws for snakes but nothing for lizards so i can keep my niles no problem and i just need to hide my 2 snakes

[Darren179]

or we can start a crazy ssnakess.com "peacful protest" get everyone to get a ssnakess t-shirt and demand a change :) (while supporting the site at the same time)