housing a baby veiled

[kidchameleon]

i am going to be getting a baby veiled chameleon, approximately 2 - 2.5 inches. i have a cage 2x2x4, but it is too big to put a baby in. i know you can house babies in a ten gallon aquarium until they get a little bigger, but i was wondering can you house it in an 18 gallon rubbermaid container? you can have papertowels on the bottom, and plenty of branches and plants to climb on. i would cut a hole on each side and cover it with a part ofa screen.so this way he can get a pretty good ventilation. also, i think this might be better because it would help hold in more humidity then a 10 gallon tank with a screen top. if anyone has done this before, or thinks it is a bad or good idea, please let me know.
thanks a lot.

hmm, i forgot something - heating. i guess i could cut out a hole the size of a dome light on the top and put screen on it. then i could rest the light on that patch of screen

[meow_mix450]

i wouldnt go for it, i would make my own cage. Made of mesh and wood. 10 gallon tank is really point less, they grow like weed, and with in weeks, he'll grow out of it, so i suggest you make a bigger cage, so then you can save money. Tanks, have very low ventilation. IMO

Meow

[kidchameleon]

well i do have a bigger cage, a 2x2x4. but that is too big for him when he's a baby. when i get him hes only gonna be about 2-3 inches. thats why i was wondering if he could stay in a rubbermaid for a little just till he got big enough for his big cage.

[carl]

Hey Kid,can you use your big cage but rig up a temporary screen roof that fits inside the big cage,that you can adjust the height you want as the cham grows.But if not I would just use the big cage.Rather than the tank or the rubbermaid container.You can cup feed since you will be feeding pinheads to your baby for now.
Good Luck

[kidchameleon]

yeah i see what you;re saying. do you think i could do this though - let him live and sleep and everything n the big cage, except eat. i could take him out and put in in like one of those small plastic containers that have the flip up lid and feed him in there? i could put a small branch and a few leaves in there....

[choriona]

First of all - taking a cham out of its house where it feels comfortable and feeding it in a small enclosed container will not be very fun for the baby. It will feel exposed and frightened and not at all like eating. It would be better if you could find a way to keep its food in its cage, so it can snack when it feels like it. (Like when you are not watching.)
Second of all - I have used a rubbermaide container in the past for my young ones. Except, I used a clamp light and had no lid. I just kept all sticks far enough away from the edges that it can't reach up and walk right out. But this sorta served as a graduation container into life as a free roamer. So, it can be done, but you have to think like a chameleon. I did not put any screen on the sides. Also, you have to watch how much heat you are putting into such a small area. Really check temps out with a thermometer. Having too hot of a heat lamp on a small container is like leaving your dog in the car in the middle of the summer without the windows open! :) Not a happy situation.
The smaller container is good for making sure your little chamey friend is eating properly, getting enough water and humidity and just overall adapting well to its new home and owner. I am not saying that the large cage is insufficient, just as long as you find a way to make it work.

[kidchameleon]

well i was going to use a 60w lightbulb in a clamp lamp and rest it about 6 inches above the basking spot. but with no lid, wont it lose the temperature quickly and not hold in much humidity? and also, without putting screen on the sides, wont there not be enough ventilation?

[Collide]

Ok there is a extencive thered on this already (just egnore the off topic stuff)

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36242

My opinion on this is if your able to provide them with food there is no need for a baby cage!

[kidchameleon]

alright thanks, im gonna check that out.

well i think it would be able to catch its food in the big cage, but i think i would just feel safer with it in a smaller one, just until it gets a little bigger.

[meow_mix450]

i think hell be fine, what about them in the wild, how do they find food??? lol but its all good, i like the idea, that carl made.

Meow

[carl]

I was thinking about your cage dilema.my first answer was the roof thing,but it might be easier with a faulse bottom you can stand on 1 by 2s or what ever you have in the work shop.that way you can have a 2 foot cage till he`s big enough for the full 4 foot cage.It should be sturdy enough to hold your real plants.If theres a will theres allways a way.But use that cage.

[i have a cham04]

okay first off kid i think your baby cam would do good in that rubbermaid idea you have thats genius! the main reason i agree is because your going to move it to the bigger one when it grows correct? and also in the wild veiled chams often die because they are in a huge area and mostly cannot find food, surprises me too, but i also would feel safer if u had your baby cham in a smaller tank. i am having mine in a 10 gal til he is big enough for a bigger screen enclosure.

[Bighead]

Don't forget about UV lights if you do the rubbermaid thing.

"I have cham 04" Do you really feel like you're in a position to give advice on chams when a couple days ago you had yours on sand, didn't know what to feed it, had a basking temp of 75F, thought that you could keep him in there because "reptiles only grow to the size of their environment", etc???

[kidchameleon]

yeah, i had everyting set up good in the rubbermaid. i had a basking spot, cooler spots, and a UV light. the thing is, i changed my mind and decided not to get another cham, haha. but oh well, the rubbermaid and plants were only like 12$, but i can use those plants and vines for my jackson, so it kind of worked out OK.

[i have a cham04]

uh i was only giving my opinion and bighead **** is more like it because i never asked what to feed it i said is there anything different to feed it and there is nothing wrong with sand and a cham ive done it before and its fine...kid cham i was trying to say its better to have a little creature in something its going to feel comfortable in

[Matt.B]

woah " i have a cham04" calm down you do realize that even people like me that dont even own a cham know not to put them on sand :grab: LOL this guys opinions are halarios!
Matt

[Chris_Anderson]

Originally posted by i have a cham04
there is nothing wrong with sand and a cham ive done it before and its fine

No you haven't, you said yourself you'd never kept a chameleon before but that you had kept an anole where you said they were basically the same thing. You are in no place to represent your advice as experience. You've had a matter of days worth of experience vs decades worth of experience between others on this forum.

Originally posted by i have a cham04
bighead your no damn expert so stfu

Bighead has more experience than you with chameleons so you may want to think twice about making comments like that.

Chris

[i have a cham04]

no he isnt an expert and i said ive never had a veiled cham before.....anyways the sand is gone i only used it til i got the carpeting....anyways,,,i bet all of you had no clue about your veiled and needed help to when you first got one so...
anyway instead of being **** about it you should be trying to help politely

[Chris_Anderson]

Originally posted by i have a cham04
no he isnt an expert and i said ive never had a veiled cham before.....anyways the sand is gone i only used it til i got the carpeting....anyways,,,i bet all of you had no clue about your veiled and needed help to when you first got one so...
anyway instead of being dicks about it you should be trying to help politely

Actually I did research before I bought a chameleon, I realized their complexities and took about 6 months where I purchased every book on the market (not just decade old petstore books), spoke with breeders and keepers and read everything i could find on chameleons. As a result, my first chameleon died of old age which is very uncommon for most captive animals. People who don't research first and then act like experts telling people wrong information and calling more experienced keepers dumba**es and d*cks are the reason so many chameleons die. When you feel like you can stop being a self proclaimed expert with 4 days of experience, maybe you'll find people are more willing to give you the information you are going to need for your chameleon to survive.

Chris

[tHeGiNo]

o he isnt an expert and i said ive never had a veiled cham before.....anyways the sand is gone i only used it til i got the carpeting....anyways,,,i bet all of you had no clue about your veiled and needed help to when you first got one so...

Actually, I researched for months before purchasing my first chameleon. And, I had the set up already prepared. I wasn't taking guesses and making assumptions on husbandry like your doing. Nor did I post on a public forum, pretending to be experienced, and bashing those who try to help.

[i have a cham04]

omg when did i pretnd to be "experienced" never did i you all are bashing when i tld kidchameleon that i thought his thought was a good thought. i never said i was experienced and i live in this fabulous state of illinois where i went to different towns looking for books on veileds and guess what, they had two and those i got from the petshop, i did research and was set-up but how i do things is none of your business i didnt ask for help with my research or set-up the only things u should reply to is the things i ask help on anyway...i only try to help on things i do know about chameleons, and you know what new things are revealed everyday on reptiles,amphibians, etc...so everyone is still not an expert.....didnt mean to be rude at any time,but i do admit yes i am a beginner with chams the only reptiles/lizzard ive had is iguanas,anoles, and like 20 turtles that i have not to mention the rabbits and birds i have, animals aremy thing i want to purchase what animals i can to learn more of course i did my research but its hard in this **** of a state....anyways maybe you shouldnt assume i dont have the right set-ups or temps maybe you should ask that would be nice or if you think mine is wrong since your all such experts maybe give me an idea of how i should try and build the cage i am building, the screening im thinking about using is 1) the screening used on an aquarium topper or two the screening used from windows. ????try and be easier on me and help since your worried about my geck.

[Collide]

here are some pics of my cages they work for me but might not for u it will give u an idea though some are potted soem are not and some are coated alunimun screening and soem are hardwere coloth there are benifets and draw backs to both anyway here is a pic.

http://www.elev8r.com/chams/enclosure14.jpg
http://www.elev8r.com/chams/enclosure08.jpg
http://www.elev8r.com/chams/enclosure10.jpg

oh and see the soil with the little white balls, of your potting use organic soil with none of the whit stff sorry its late and the name of it eluds me right now. I would have replaced that cage but she never eats them or even hits the crix off the soil soo i dont worrie about it in that cage.

[Matt.B]

God one of the moderators should ban this guy!!!! BTW the white balls are probably perlite.
Matt

[Chris_Anderson]

Originally posted by i have a cham04
omg when did i pretnd to be "experienced" never did i

Here, lets list a few times shall we:

Originally posted by i have a cham04
there is nothing wrong with sand and a cham ive done it before and its fine

That sounds a lot like pertending to be experienced to me. Lets look at some more.

Originally posted by i have a cham04
its no harder than taking care of an iguana.

One can't make that statement without having kept chameleons before so it sounds like you are presenting yourself as experienced enought to make the comparison. How long did your iguana live? Funny how then you posted when you realized you couldn't hold a cham all the time saying:

Originally posted by i have a cham04
so it is totally different from iguana then....

Lets keep going though shall we?

Originally posted by i have a cham04
1 im not a beginner

No cham experience = beginner. Thats a number of times that you've pretended to be experienced with chams.

We are bashing you for making BS claims, not saying you thought the cage idea was a good one. for instance:

Originally posted by i have a cham04
the lizzzard grows with the size of its home

I advice you not make statements you are not sure about or make very certain you are giving correct information because that is simply incorrect. While we're talking about you making bogus claims as facts, can you explain this one?

Originally posted by i have a cham04
in the wild veiled chams often die because they are in a huge area and mostly cannot find food

Please provide a single sourse of published data that says most baby chameleons die in the wild cause they cannot find food. Have you ever been to ANY chameleon habitat? FYI, most deaths with baby chams is due to predation and extreme environmental conditions. While I'm sure a few die of not being able to find food, most certainly do not.

Rather than continue to list all the bogus claims and statements you've made, since I think I made my point, I'll just address the rest of your post.

Originally posted by i have a cham04
i live in this fabulous state of illinois where i went to different towns looking for books on veileds and guess what, they had two and those i got from the petshop

My recommendation would be to buy more online and have them sent to you.

Originally posted by i have a cham04
how i do things is none of your business i didnt ask for help with my research or set-up

No you didn't ask for help but when you start giving terrible advice and making incorrect statements proving beyond any doubt you have no idea what you're doing, we are going to act in the best interest of you animal because it becomes increasingly evident that you're animal could very easily become a statistic if we don't. Forgive me but I don't care if the advice I'm giving you is what you want to hear or not, it will help your chameleon in the long run and thats what I want to do.

Originally posted by i have a cham04
i only try to help on things i do know about chameleons

Then please do us all a favor and don't post advice calling more experienced people dumba**es because you don't know much yet with regard to chameleon husbandry.

Originally posted by i have a cham04
you know what new things are revealed everyday on reptiles,amphibians, etc...

Yes, things are being found regularly which is why you should not rely on the information in your two, extremely out dated books as better information the extensive, current experience.

Originally posted by i have a cham04
maybe you shouldnt assume i dont have the right set-ups or temps

I didn't assume anything. You were the one who described your setup and made it painfully obvious it was a terrible enclosure. Myself and others simply asked you about your lighting and temps afterwards as the setup you described was terrible.

Originally posted by i have a cham04
since your all such experts maybe give me an idea of how i should try

Maybe I missed something but I think we were trying to help you and your chameleon. I think you need to reread our posts cause you surly didn't read them closely.

Chris

[tHeGiNo]

omg when did i pretnd to be "experienced"

Thanks for clearing that up for me Chris.

i did research and was set-up but how i do things is none of your business i didnt ask for help with my research or set-up...

A few things here. How you do things is definitely my business. Whether you like it or not, I make it my business. I don't know about you, but I don't like seeing animals die or suffer. And try to prevent it where possible.

the only things u should reply to is the things i ask help on

If that were the case, you would still have your chameleons on sand in a 5.5 gallon.

i only try to help on things i do know about chameleons

From what you have shown, it is not much. Other then the fact that they are lizards. That is why it is sometimes best to leaves others' questions to more experienced individuals. This way, the animals best interests are preserved, and no false information is provided.

new things are revealed everyday on reptiles,amphibians, etc...so everyone is still not an expert.

You're definitely correct. And many years ago, we learned that calyptratus cannot live on sand, nor in 10 gallon aquariums.

of a state....anyways maybe you shouldnt assume i dont have the right set-ups or temps maybe you should ask that would be nice or if you think mine is wrong since your all such experts maybe give me an idea of how i should try and build the cage i am building

We didn't assume anything, you told us you were doing everything wrong.

try and be easier on me and help since your worried about my geck.

Is it a veiled chameleon or a gecko?

[tHeGiNo]

the screening used on an aquarium topper or two the screening used from windows. ????try and be easier on me and help since your worried about my geck.

Now, to help out. I don't know what an aquarium topper is, so I can't help you on that. The screening used on windows has too small of holes. Their nails, as they grow, often get stuck and even pulled out. This leads to possible infections and is best to avoid. Therefore, use something like hardware cloth, or any screening with holes big enough for an ADULT nail to fit in cleanly. Be sure to include lots of foliage and climbing branches, with a basking spot and UVA/UVB light. Feel free to ask more detailed questions.

[xdiversichicx]

um.. k.. not gonna get into that argument up there... all im gonna say is that i have two baby veileds and i keep them both in cages that are gonna be big enough for them when they're grown. never had any problems. just make sure to check on them everyday so that they havent hurt themselves.
and they grow extremely fast. a month ago my male was about 2 inches long.. now he's almost 6. the female isnt far behind him.

[tHeGiNo]

Agreed. However one thing to add, I recommend having a soft substrate such as coconut husk, so that in the case that the chameleon falls (as unlikely as it may or may not be), the fall is shielded. I will also quote a few other important aspects of husbandry from my own caresheet:



Housing is one of the more important aspects in calyptratus husbandry. Most importantly, aquariums are not an appropriate enclosure for Veiled Chameleons, or most chameleons at that. Poor ventilation, like that characterized by glass aquarium, allows the air to become stagnant which provides an opportunity for fungus and bacteria to develop. Screened enclosures are therefore necessary.

An enclosure for an adult calyptratus must be a minimum size of 3' L x 2' W x 3' H. As presumed, a larger enclosure is always preferable. Upon obtaining a suitable enclosure, proper furnishings are just as important as a proper enclosure size. Being adapted to an arboreal lifestyle, an enclosure enriched with foliage in which they may climb and bask is essential to their health and well-being.

Lighting is both crucial and mandatory in the proper captive husbandry of Veiled Chameleons. Specifically, a light emitting UVA and UVB rays. Before going into the methods of providing these rays, it is necessary to understand what these rays are and what purpose they serve in your reptiles' life. UVA, the visible wavelength of light, is responsible for the psychological well-being of your reptile. It is presumed that the exposure to UVA light stimulates appetite and induces necessary behaviour such as climbing and breeding. UVB light is the non-visible wavelength of lighting. UVB radiation permits reptiles to manufacture vitamin D3. Without the presence of Vitamin D3, the calcium in their diets simply passes through their system unused.

Native to Saudi Arabia and Yemen, calyptratus require fairly high basking temperatures, ranging between 90ºF to 95ºF.

To be safe, ensure that the side of the cage opposite the heat lamp ranges between 75-80ºF. In the mountains of which calyptratus are native to, night temperatures drop significantly. It is important to match this characteristic in their captive husbandry; it is necessary for them to experience at least a 10ºF to 15ºF drop in temperature through the duration of nighttime hours.

Humidity is another important factor in the well being of Veiled Chameleons. Humidity levels should range in and around 80%, and should not drop lower then 60%.

Unfortunately, cases where Veiled Chameleons drink from still water are scarcely found. They do however, in the wild, lick dew and rain droplets off of leaves and trees, or are attracted to moving water. With this understanding, special techniques may be applied in making sure your chameleon is kept hydrated. Because they are naturally attracted to droplets of water which reflect light, designing water systems that takes this natural behaviour into account may be applied. A common practice is to provide a drip system. These can be homemade or purchased from a reptile supply store. Homemade drip systems can be as simple as empty and cleaned margarine tubs with small holes placed on the bottom to allow water to slowly drip through. Along with a drip system, it is compulsory to mist the whole enclosure at least two times daily. Keep in mind that the chameleon will appreciate warm water! By the time it reaches the chameleon through the spray bottle, the water will have cooled down dramatically. To compensate, use pre-boiled semi-cooled water, or use bottled water heated up by adding boiling water.

Hopefully that clears a few things up for you.

[meow_mix450]

lol guys calm down, and i believe "i have a cham" is a girl if im wrong correct me.

O.k what i find people do wrong is that they dont reserach before getting a chameleon that is one of the problems i find. People just come into the fourms asking the most basic questions that can be found on care sheets, but some people want to make sure that they are right and not giving wrong info, If you ask for sites then go read them, and dont ask the questions that have been answered on the sites. But you should do research before you think of getting anything. If you do that then this would have never happened, but i heard that your boyfriend got it at the last min...am i wrong? You are a beginner and we all once were, but these people here have had sucess in keeping them and i suggest that you take there advice. I have a panther nosy be, and he is very very happy, wanna know why, cause i do research, and i still do when im bored! So i suggest you start reading and dont give adivce, cause your not ready yet.

Good luck

Meow

[sketchy4]

first off i beleive that if youre going to call people d*cks and a$$holes for trying to correct some wrong information and trying to point out a fact then you dont need to be here. dont come here telling people to stfu. i dont even own a cham and i seem to know more about them than you do so if you are wrong about something just say you are sorry for giving out wrong info. if you cant do that and start calling people names then just leave.

thats my .2$

[BurmGuy87]

I'm with Sketchy on this...first you dont give tips unless you KNOW what your talking about. What if this person read your post and went off and did something totally wrong with thier pet? And mainly you dont have any right....EVER to tell people to STFU or call names....its totally uncalled for

[sketchy4]

thank you Don lol.