Oreo's plight

[Dark_Angel_25]

Well, as per my post below about cooling, I took Oreo to the vet SAturday. everything checked out. they gave her a vitamin b shot to help stimulate her apetite (even though she is nocturnal but whatever) The vet also suggested I buy a UVA/UVB bulb, but I figure it would be a waste of money anyway, she would never benefit being hidden in the rock all the time..

Soooo, I took a friends advise and decided that she must be trying to cool herself. So I dropped the temp down to 70 on Saturday night. This morning I noticed her color had changed to a very dull greyish. (She is a striped AFT) it almost looks like she is getting ready to shed, but when I left the vet the made it very specific comment that if I noticed her color change to call them ASAP (which I did and have an appointment this aftenoon)

I don't think it is a shed, because as you all know, she wasn't eating... so she can't be growing, and therefore shouldn't be shedding... her fecal was clean, so I am at a total loss. I turned her temps back up, (I never cooled a retile before so I was nervous the whole time she was in it anyway) and won't try that again... not yet, she only weighs 21 grams, and her tail visibly reduced size (because her heat was on and not eating)

Does anyone have any ideas what the color change could be? I am at such a loss... I think I am going to loose her :(

[marisa]

I have read your previous thread....I am not a AFT keeper but I keep leos and other snakes that have cooling periods.

Someone correct me if I am wrong. but if you have had a heat lame on her, and she sits on it, but still looses weight, then I don't see why she would be cooling herself. I am just saying just because she stopped eating, doesn't mean she wants to be cooled and being only 21 grams...yikes. I just personally think your problem has nothing to do with cooling and something else is going on. Maybe I am wrong though. It's an odd situation.

Have you tried feeding her liquidified food?

Marisa

[Dark_Angel_25]

hey Marisa,
Well that is what I thought too.. but anyway,
I did try to hand feed her, a hand fed a couple of mealies, and tried to feed a cricket by hand, but it was hard. so I grabbed some of the crestie diet I have, and fed her some of that with a dropper, she ate it ok, but it seemed to mostly come out like it went in... that is when I took her to the vet thinking it was parasites... but the fecal was clean. I really am at a total loss now, and they and said if she didn't eat by next Saturday, that they would need to tube feed her directly into her stomach.. that I feel would really stress her out and may cause more problems... but I really don't know... at this point I am thinking iot would be the only way. otherwise I need to buy a blender and start blending crickets and mealworms and calcium and dropper feed her until she put weight back on....

[marisa]

If it came back out the way it went it...I would only guess she is having some digestion problem or maybe not enough "pro-bacteria" in her.

What do you AFT "experts" think about yogurt, or Grapfruit Seed Extract for this? I know GSE has helped quite a few people over on a corn forum where a few peoples babies constantly regurged. Constantly. Using some "pro-biotics" many were able to get the situation under control.

Maybe you can ask your vet about that.

Marisa

[Dark_Angel_25]

grapefruit seed extract?? what's that? and where can you buy it? I suppose that and/or yogurt increases the good bacteria in her stomach fro digestion which makes it easier? I didn't mentione it before but when she shed (before this whole no eating problem began) the shed she ate came out in her poop a couple days later.. almost intact.. just wet. so could I feed her yogurt and see if that helps at all? any type in specific? (flavour) and where can I get the grapefruit seed extract? as I assume it does the same thing as the yogurt? I have never heard of this before... so at this point, anything that could work I will try... do you know doses? for how long? that kind of information would be helpful...

[marisa]

Well just discuss this with your vet before trying anything. I am just shooting out ideas that you can pass on to him.

Definitly talk to your vet first. Flagyl also works like this I believe.

Marisa

[Dark_Angel_25]

ok thank you so much Marisa... you so far are the only one who has given something to go to my vet with.. hopefully these ideas will work.. I'll have to let Kenn know about htem, as he will be taking her in, I am stuck at work...

[ChristinaM]

Marissa brought up the idea about not having enough digestive enzymes. You could try a product called " Acidophiliz +". I use it on any ill reptile, with GREAT results. The dosage is on the bottle. You can find it at PetSmart, I don't know where else. Here is a website with info: http://www.pet-authority.com/prod04.htm

Other than that, I really have no idea :( I'm sorry.

[Dark_Angel_25]

thanks birch...i'll add that to the listof what kenn can ask the vet...
unfortunately we don't have petsmart in QUE. dunno if any other store would carry it... i'll ask around,

[Dark_Angel_25]

and would the lack of digestive enzymes be a cause of her not eating? cause of upset stomach or something maybe??

[marisa]

Well I am so far from able to give you the best advice but....

A couple people I have talked to had some corns (yeah snakes not an AFT) who would eat, then regurg partially disgested food, or not eat at all....or if they held it down pass out what looked like undigested food in their fecal matter. G.S.E. helps with this because it works like a pro-biotic giving the stomach the "help" it may need to fully digest the food. ..it's antiviral, antibacterial; Gram+ and Gram-, antimycotic, and antiprotozoan accourding to websites listing its virtues. Flagyl I believe works similiar...as well as things like yogurt.

Again I am not qaulified to give out medical advice, AFT advice and the like. Just some things to bring up to your vet before taking a new course of action. :D

Marisa

[reptiguy123]

Well I know that lizards love yogurt:)

[Dark_Angel_25]

ok, well if lizards like yogurt... that is fgreat.. BUT is it good for them?? somone said because they don't come across this in the wld that they may be lactose intolerant.. has anyone else heard of this?

[dj_honeycuts]

Hello!
You may want to go to gekkota.com and check the archives. There have been some threads recently about leos with similar problems. There are some parasites that vets don't normally think to check for that seem to be cropping up more frequently in both cb and wc geckos. There was one thread about leos that focused aroud a particular type of bacteria that causes a wasting away, but I'm completely drawing a blank at the moment. Hope this helps and good luck!

[reptiguy123]

What is the bacteria called?

[ChristinaM]

Originally posted by Dark_Angel_25
and would the lack of digestive enzymes be a cause of her not eating? cause of upset stomach or something maybe??

IMO ( I am not a vet/medical grad either, so take it for what its worth) yes. If she's not able to properly digest the food, it would probally give her some belly uncomfort.

I am so at a loss on this one. Wish I could be more help. Definately keep us posted on her progress :)

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by Dark_Angel_25
ok, well if lizards like yogurt... that is fgreat.. BUT is it good for them?? somone said because they don't come across this in the wld that they may be lactose intolerant.. has anyone else heard of this?

There's no problem with geckos eating yogurt IF it's the kind made with live bacteria, not the 'imitation' kinds made with gelling agents. The bacteria that produce the yogurt are the same ones found in the Pro-biotics formulas available for reptiles. The lactose in the milk is converted to (can't remember what right now :( ) but whatever it is, the geckos can digest it. I use yogurt as a treat for all my breeding female leos, it's a regular food item for fruit eaters like cresteds. Some females absolutely love it, maybe the calcium content clues them in.
I got the idea of yogurt from an exotics vet a few years ago when I took in a rescued leo. He's the one who explained to me that it's perfectly safe, and I've been using it ever since.

We feed our captive leos a lot of things they'd never find in the wild, and we also don't feed them a lot that they would eat in the wild (like scorpions).

[reptiguy123]

WHat other foods can you give them for a treat?

[Samba]

This post has been of exceptional personal interest to me... I have been using yogurt as both a treat and a suppliment for years on my geckos. Yet, the topic of introducing flora into an animals gut for benefit never crossed my mind. In the past, yogurt (and baby foods) have helped many a rescued animal gain strength and appetite. I have definately never witnessed any ill effects from consumption. A few months ago I inquired what other keepers thought of yogurt, (as well as other foods) in gecko's diets; (particularly insectivores). You can check it out below...

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14741

Looking forward to your thoughts....

~S~

[Painted Desert]

Well. I'm quite late in this thread. Was the AFT's stool specifically tested for crypto? This is not a routine test done on a standard fecal. What say you, Dragndrop? And look for yogurt which contains the live culture Acidophylus.