New Mouse Variety?!

[reptilesalonica]

The following mice are a few weeks old.
Do i bred a new variety of mice? lol :p
Well if so, i name them...The Lion Mouse:D
http://hometown.aol.com/gregiuspython/images/lion-mouse01.jpg
http://hometown.aol.com/gregiuspython/images/lion-mouse02.jpg
http://hometown.aol.com/gregiuspython/images/lion-mouse03.jpg
~Greg~

[Auskan]

Wow. What are their parents???

[AlexPan]

OMG dood those mice are awsome!! Are you selling any? if thats a genetic glinch man, you just found a gold mine!

[Big_V]

Those are incredibly awesome man....i hope those are a new line of mouse cuz that name is perfect....we shall see i guess.
Cheers,
Ryan

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

I think thats caused by inbreeding. When you breed brothers and sisters or mothers and dauters and vice versa you can get some hairless mice. LOL. Anyways i don't think its a new breed but i've never seen them with just hair on their head and tail and feet. Looks cool though.

[mykee]

Very neat looking. Almost makes me want to keep a mouse as a pet...

[Linds]

LOL nice work in photoshop Greg ;) :p I want to see some lion rats though!

[reptilesalonica]

No Linds, It's not made in photoshop. Those photos are linked to my site (if you take a closer look);)
I finaly manage to convince myself too, that i didn't open the photoshop when i was...drunk!:D:p
They are real. Their parents were common iRC mice:confused:
Oh, they are second generation breed (brothers and siters).
But i will wait till they are ready to breed and i will see if they are realy a goldmine!:)
~Greg~

[Stockwell]

There are completely hairless mice and also ones with no tails, but I must admit I've never seen any quite like that. There is alot of mixing and matching of mice these days so anything is possible. When you buy live feeders you can never tell what they might be het for.
I hate getting those tailess ones... there's no handle. LOL
You better make sweaters for those guys, so they don't catch colds :)

[Dani33]

Just a thought, there are "hairless" guinae pigs with hair only on the head and feet. So it's certainly possible.

[Linds]

Hrmmm... that's odd. They look like they have undeveloped bodies, exactly like pinkies, but with adult heads and limbs, and some of the limbs are blurred while the other parts are not, as well as it blurs where they join. You should be able to see some definition of the body and certainly not see all the organs through them at that age :confused:

[crazyboy]

Nice mice there. chrisandboids: how do you breed mothers and daughters?

[Linds]

Originally posted by crazyboy
chrisandboids: how do you breed mothers and daughters?

LOL :p

[marisa]

Wow insane. They look weird.

CHRISANDBOIDS14 hairless mice are an actual strain. Also, almost EVERY mouse you purchase is inbred. Even breeding mice from two or three pet shops won't ensure they are not related. I have bred brothers to mothers, brothers to sisters and fathers to daughters and I have never gotten "hairless" mice because of inbreeding.

Marisa

[tai_pan1]

I'm with Linds. Look at the last photo and how big the mouse's foot is compared to the rest of the body. I've never seen a mouse whose foot is equal to 1/3 the body length.

[reptilesalonica]

tai_pan1 and Linds, you think you see that, because they lack of fur in the body, so the body looks smaller than head ;)
~Greg~

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Sorry, i meant mothers and sons not mothers and daughters and yes it does happen sometimes when you inbreed. I've done it myself and so does another larger breeder i know. :D LOL My bad(with the mothers and daughters thing).

[reptilesalonica]

LOL!!!YES!!!....i wish i was there to see how they could...*do the wild thing*...;)
~Greg~

[marisa]

"yes it does happen sometimes when you inbreed"

Where is proof that this happens? Frankly I am more inclined to believe what you were breeding was mice with the hairless strain in their background, or hair loss from a health ailment. Could you point some articles out that mention hairless mice being caused by inbreeding?

Marisa

[Linds]

Originally posted by reptilesalonica
tai_pan1 and Linds, you think you see that, because they lack of fur in the body, so the body looks smaller than head ;)
~Greg~

No, I don't mean the bodies are disproportionate, I meant they looked underdeveloped. There is no definition and you can clearly see all the organs, which you shouldn't be able to after around 6 days - hair or no hair. The bodies have all the characteristics of a pinky, not an older, more developed mouse.

[rattekonigin]

You can only get hairless mice as a result of inbreeding if at least one of the original parent mice carried a gene for hairlessness...you may not see any hairless mice for many generations, which might make it seem like they were "created" by inbreeding, but (barring a novel mutation in the line, which is a possibility, but quite unlikely) the hairless gene was there all along, it just wasn't being expressed.

Because inbreeding results in an increase in homozygosity, the more you inbreed, the more likely you are to have recessive traits being expressed phenotypically. That's why inbreeding is generally considered a bad thing, because down the line you're more likely to start having deleterious genetic diseases cropping up.

[reptilesalonica]

Well...I don't know Linds...I never saw a hopper without fur before, to tell how it looks like.
~Greg~

[Linds]

I've seen hairless rodents before, from the time they were born to the time they were breeding themselves, and they were all fully formed underneath their coat, and no organs were visible through the skin... seems kinda weird to me...

[reptilesalonica]

If you did saw those hairless mice as hoppers and the organs were not visible, then i cannot disagree since i never saw how a hopper hairless mouse before.
~Greg~

[Leona]

For all you nonbelievers, I've been breeding mice for sometime now. I've had a few litters born that look exactly like these, even some that have hair on their bodies and bald heads. If you read and can understand Rattekonigin's post he explains quite well how it can happen. Myself I think they look unhealthy and feed them out as hoppers. If I had only known there was a demand for "lion mice", I could have been rich by now. lol

[RaVeNo888o]

i think they should be poodle mice..since they have the furry feet and tails like the balls of fur people groom on their prize poodles :p

[reptilesalonica]

Yeah, i thought of that too, but now it's pointless, they both died
~Greg~

[jadegrasse]

I breed mice that are completely bald as well as mice that only ever develop fuzz. I also breed mice that have curly hair. sorta like an afro.
Yours look cool. I wonder what we would get if we crossed a 'lion' with a baldie?

[Gregg M]

Those mice have the same genetic defect that hairless guinea pigs have and a breed of dog called the Chinese crested........ It is a recessive gene and has been produced before......... They are not worth a whole lot.......... That gene works just like leopard gecko morphs........ You are not really sitting on a gold mine.......LOL....... But there may be a small market for them....... Being that they are so easy to produce because mice are so prolific, they will loose value pretty fast........ But hey, have fun with it and if you can make some cash on them, great...........

[Aug]

Those looks awsome!!! You should try and find out what exactly is going on. I don't have the time to search, but there is a "gene knockout bank" for mice that may prove helpful. i often use it for school/reseach work. I not sure if it is one gene. Probably more complex seeing that hair is produced on their heads. Anyways, mice have some really neat mutations... check out the site.

http://www.bioscience.org/knockout/knochome.htm

or for just info use

http://tbase.jax.org/

Btw, the bioscience website sells these mutations. They are not cheap. So, if ever you have surviving mutations, try your luck and see what happends.


Aug

[reptilesalonica]

Thanks for the info Aug, now that i am giving a second thought on this...maybe it was from the spray for the fleas...i don't know for sure, just a thought.
~Greg~

[YummyCdnMale]

LOL!!! Put the mouse clippers away dude... I am thinking Barbershop not Photoshop LMAO

[Peter Ludwig]

This happened to one of my colonies too. I changed the male in it to get the group back to normal. Ifelt sorry for the little hairless guys they were probably cold.

[reptilesalonica]

YummyCdnMale, do you think with 20 reptiles, thousands of mealworms and crickets, hundreds of mice and rats, with a job 6 days a week and with a girl that i have to devote many hours together with her, do you think, after all that, i have the time to shave HOPPER mice?:p
---
Peter Ludwig, it is strange, don't you think?
The same colony bred 2 more of those hairless mice but this time a little fuzzier. I will take a pic when i will have the time
~Greg~

[kam_herp_hut]

LOL, they were cute. Being albino that might explain why they look underdeveloped?
But anyways, if anyone here happens to be a rat fancier (as I am), they might know of the hairless rat, as well as the double rex, double velveteen, mock hairless, nude, mock velveteen, and etc.
Those same kind of genes exsist in mice, though it hasn't been as strongly studied.
However, any hairless variety usually has a short life span, as their immune systems were compromised when they were developed (as a hairless breed).
They are interesting to keep (I have a few hairless rats right now). Many females are either sterile or do not lactate. As well, they are allergic to most beddings, including Aspen. But, they do not get cold if they are kept with furred cage mates. In the summer you have to keep them cool, as they have difficulty regulating their temperature, and if near any windows, they must have sunblock put on them or you'll cook them.
They actually feel very warm to the touch, and while they are funny looking to people who have never seen them before, they are very rewarding if you have the right temperment and genetics.
And manxing is also quite common, though to get a true and healthy manx rat (not sure about mice), you need to breed a tailed manx carrier female to a related manx male. Then you might get some manx babies in the litter.
As for value, the only way they are worth anything is if you can continue the line without inbreeding. The healthier the line, and the better the animals, the more money you can make. If you can improve the line to live longer, and carry these traits without having to resort to massive inbreeding, then you can sell them for higher prices. But if not I truly don't see fanciers buying them if they are not proven to have healthy backgrounds.
I guess it is the same for people who breed herps. The healthier the animal, and the better the pedigree, the more value it and it's offspring will have.
Hope this doesn't sound like I am being nasty, that wasn't my point in any way :) Just being a fanatic of rat genetics, I had to pipe up :rolleyes:

~Tara

[Leviathan]

They're called Skinny mice, there are also skinny pigs (guinea pigs) and skinny rats as well. Being that not alot of people have ever heard of them I would just call them lion mince until someone corrects you ;) I like that better.

Alecia

[kam_herp_hut]

Originally posted by Leviathan
They're called Skinny mice, there are also skinny pigs (guinea pigs) and skinny rats as well. Being that not alot of people have ever heard of them I would just call them lion mince until someone corrects you ;) I like that better.

Alecia

Actually, for the most part they are not known as skinny rats, it depends on the variety (my post above lists a few).

~Tara

[Leviathan]

I know there are many varieties of mice. I have a friend who breeds and shows rats. When just there head has hair they are sold under the name 'skinny rat'. At least wherever she breeds and shows them, they are. I'm sure they are called other names as well... like 'lion mice!' She has rex's and hairless and much more also. Petsmart also has carried 'Skinny Pigs'.

Alecia

[kam_herp_hut]

Yes I have heard skinny pigs, but never skinny mice, nor skinny rats. As a rattery, that is why I spoke up....just have never bought/sold/traded/produced a skinny rat. Name sounds very odd to me :confused:

~Tara

[kam_herp_hut]

Yes I have heard skinny pigs, but never skinny mice, nor skinny rats. As a rattery, that is why I spoke up....just have never bought/sold/traded/produced a skinny rat. Name sounds very odd to me :confused:

~Tara

[Leviathan]

Ya I think it's a stupid name too. Maybe she was mistaken... I have no idea, that's just what she told me.

[kam_herp_hut]

Probably as more people become aware of the animals....lets hope anyways! Those names are rather silly :p

~Tara