feeding sizes

[blazinreps]

I have to bps at about 20 inches long and iv had them for four dayd ans i tryed feeding them f/t rat fuzies rubed in used hampster beeding and they wouldent eat so ileft them in ove rnite and still nothing should i be worried the rat fuzzies were about an inch to 2 inches long. should i be feeding them adult mice or what????? any help would be great thanx
Blair

[mykee]

Firstly, I sincerely hope you do not keep the two snakes together. Regardless, if you've only had them for 4 days, I would give them at LEAST two weeks to acclimate to their new environment(s). They are probably stressed from the move and should be left completely alone for a while until they unstress, attempting to feed them during this two-week 'cooling-off' period will only stress them out more.

[blazinreps]

they are housed togetehr in a 50 gallons tank. i believe they were housed together before i bought them.

[sapphire_moon]

doesn't matter if they were housed together before you bought them. It is a BAD idea to house 2 snakes together.
Take Mykee's advice. Seperate them, and wait atleast 2 weeks before feeding them. Do not handle them, do not attempt to feed them, and keep them in a low traffic area.

It is easy to keep them seperate you do not have to go out and buy another tank. Just get a rubbermaid and drill holes in the side (kinda near the top) all the way around. Put a heating pat underneath on one side (with a lamp dimmer or something to keep it from getting to hot), add a couple of hides (one on each side) appropriate sized water bowl, and newspaper or paper towel for substrate.
If they were kept together I am going to assume that you got them from a pet store. The ONLY reason a pet store keeps snakes together like that is for space. If you got it from a breeder......well I won't say anything because every breeder I have talked to keeps their hatchlings seperate.
anyways......

Wait 2 weeks
no handling
no attemped feedings
keep in a low traffic area
keep fresh water in there, about ever 3-4 days take and clean out the bowl and give fresh water, and spot clean.

after 2 weeks attempt to feed, if they feed, great.
don't handle them until atleast they have eaten like 3-4 times (so about 3-4 wks). After they have successfully ate 3-4 times in a row (not in one sitting!, but 1 every week) then start handling them.

They should be fed something the size of adult mice. DO NOT scent with hamster bedding or they might get stuck and only eat it like that, or only eat hamsters. Do you really want to pay 6 dollars a week, then up to 40 dollars for 6 hamster for 2 adult ball pythons? Hamsters don't breed like rats and mice do. They can only have a 1.1 pair, and you CAN'T leave the male in there.

Something the size of a rat fuzzy-1.5wk old would be about the same size.

[Auskan]

Also, check with the seller what they were eating before you got them. Some BPs are hard to switch to rats if they are used to eating mice. If you do a search in the BP forum you will find lots of tips for how to encourage them to make the switch. However, I do agree with Mykee and Sapphire Moon about keeping them separately, and also about waiting at LEAST two weeks before feeding. Remember, they can go months without eating and not even lose weight, so waiting a few weeks for them to acclimate before feeding is not a bit deal.

[ballpython101]

yea i agree with sapphire.... for ball pythons they like there space n their home for themselves....

i have a 4-5 month old female ball she is 27-30inches n about a month ago i put my new ball with her. he is 17-19inches, at first she would run from him n hiss....... and for the past 2 weeks i put him back in there n she chases him out ( no fighting ).... but leave ur snakes alone for at least a week n a half, u need to handle them alot....

then try to feed them in 2 weeks, seperated !!!!!!! my snakes eat like animals !!!! except for sheding time ! but jus go by sapphire n u will get through it..........

keep us knowing ..........!

[tHeGiNo]

After waiting two weeks, if the snake still isn't eating try feeding live.

[sapphire_moon]

no, don't feed live.

Try f/t in these manners:

brained
nose cut off
head dipped in HOT water
body dipped in hot water
head dipped in chicken broth
leave the f/t in the cage overnight
leave the f/t AND the bp in a small rubbermaid (with ventilation) overnight

and as a last resort, THEN try feeding, but only something that would be smaller than they would normally eat, like a fuzzy, that don't have it's eyes open. Even if your bp is eating something the size of adult mice, only a fuzzy with it's eyes still closed, or a rat fuzzy with it's eyes still closed. Because they are not yet dangerous to your snake.

[elevation24]

I would so rather feed live than cut the nose off of a mouse.

Ewww!!

[tHeGiNo]

Sapphire, the most important thing is that the ball python is eating. It is still young, and may not yet be accustomed to feeding f/t. Young ball pythons often need to added movement from hopper mice to engage their instincts and the like. The long the snake goes without eating, the more difficult the situation gets. Whats important is that the snake is healthy and eating, then you can fool around and get him on f/t rats.

Look at what your telling him. Keep in mind that after every attempt, one is supposed to wait a week before another attempt:

1. attempt brained

one week break

2. attempt nose cut off

one week break

3. attempt head dipped in HOT water

one week break

4. attempt body dipped in hot water

one week break

5. attempt head dipped in chicken broth

one week break

6. attempt leave the f/t in the cage overnight

one week break

7. attempt leave the f/t AND the bp in a small rubbermaid (with ventilation) overnight

On top of the two weeks that she should go before trying to feed, thats a total of eight weeks that the snake has gone without eating. And who knows when the last time the snake ate was. This is a young ball python, we aren't talking adults here.

[tHeGiNo]

After that, let me advise you on what to do. First off, get two separate enclosures for each ball python. I am recommending rubbermaids, which are cheap and efficient. Get a heating device under each one, such as a heat pad. Achieve temperatures of 92F on the hot side, and 75F on the cold side.

Next, in order to secure your snakes security (lol) you will need proper hides. For ball python, a proper hide is something that they fit into snugly, specifically they will want contact with the hide on their backs. This is essential.

Make sure you also have a waterbowl in there.

Once this is set up, and they have been given two weeks to acclimate, attempt feeding a f/t rat pup, slightly larger then the snakes girth. If this attempt fails, only after you correct the husbandry errors I suggested, attempt feeding a live hopper mouse.

[jfmoore]

Okay, well, you've gotten lots of advice, some conflicting. Sort it out and start trying some suggestions. I'll just give you one piece of advice:

DON'T LEAVE TWO SNAKES IN THE SAME CAGE OVERNIGHT WITH FOOD AGAIN! OKAY?

[mykee]

I would also second the live feeding if you have a picky eater. Most balls will snatch a live rat in seconds, just BE CAREFUL and PAY ATTENTION if feeding live.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Also, under-size the food item a bit. The "standard" measure is 1-1.5x the snake's largest girth. For a non-feeder being offered it's first live meal, I'd feed it even a bit smaller than 1x the largest girth and sit and watch the entire time.

You've gotten tons of advice and hopefully some of it will do you some good. :)

Good luck!

[blazinreps]

alrite i will eather be setting up to rubermade containers or i was wondering if i could just divide the 50 gallon in hlaf with like plexi glass and if that would work? im goiun to the store tommorow to get some f/t medium sized mice and a pair of live adult rats so i cat eventual breed my own food.

[tHeGiNo]

It could work, sure! But then you have to ask yourself if it is worth the hassle. If you don't mind not having the aquarium, I would definitely recommend rubbermaids. Especially to get the guys established, you want everything as easy as possible, so that you can achieve all of the snakes needs accordingly.

[rip_this_joint]

One of my phytons is in glass the other plexiglass..for the one in glass, I attached the subtank heating pad directly on the glass, then but a nice rock slate over the hot spot inside (90-95farenheit)But Ive heard that if you put a heat source directly on the plexiglass, it can omit bad vapours....could this be the same for rubber? Regardless, I attached the heatpad to a piece of glass(the underside) and then fit the glass right under the plexiglass..plexiglass,then glass, then heatpad. I get the heatpads that stick. Seems to work well...Regarding cutting heads off mice...etc...I've done everything but..and after 9 years finally have my snakes eating from my hands..literally. I thaw my mice in a way so that they are dry and the same temperature as live prey would be..then I shake the prey by its tail in front of the snake. They snap it right from my hand, and thinking its alive, proceed to constrict it ....just like live...It's truely awesome and I am willing to share my method if anyone is interested.

[blazinreps]

plz share if just thawed them in hot water and my snakes wont take um maybe im not leavin um in enough they seem to be more afriad of the food when i move it.

[rip_this_joint]

FEEDING METHOD – SHARE WITH OTHERS
(use food item of suitable size-apparent body girth of prey animal nearly equal to thickest girth of snake-below I’ve stated 3 inch mice-this is the perfect size for my snakes)
Note: Hatchling and subadult ball pythons should be offered food every 5 – 7 days; adults, every 7 – 10 days. The body girth of prey animal should be nearly equal to the thickest girth of the snake. Adults can be offered 2 or 3 prey items, if a larger prey can’t be found.

1/ Put one 3inch FROZEN mouse or rat into an air tight zip-loc bag , and than into another air tight zip-loc bag. Make sure all of the air is out of both bags and that the bags are sealed tightly. IF IT’S FEEDING TIME FOR BOTH AT THE SAME TIME,WHICH I USUALLY TRY TO DO, FOLLOW THE EXACT SAME DIRECTIONS AS YOU WOULD FOR ONE.

2/ Place into a one liter yogurt container(or other plastic one litre container) and fill with the hottest water that comes from the tap. Then put that yogurt container into a pot in the sink, also filled with the hottest water from the tap. Do not boil the water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3/ Let heat for ½ an hour. Do it again. Wait another half hour. One more time. An hour and a half to two hours, depending on the size. Never over 3 ½ inches. When you take it out of the bag, it’s the exact same temperature as real prey would be. And it’s dry. If you shake it around just in front of the snake, he or she will snap it up and constrict it. Grab it right out of your hand.

*****IMPORTANT NOTES*****

1/ Never feed if cold-that is, the snake is cold. Always make sure snake is at least at 80F. Therefore enclosure is at least 80F for awhile.

2/ Never feed if entering shed. Angelo wouldn’t go for it anyway, but Logos might.

3/Once you’ve given the snake its prey; even if you have to put something back into the cage, whatever you do, especially with Logos, wash your hands before you put them back into the cage. She’ll smell the mouse smell on your hands and think you are offering her more food. It’s the only time she ever bit me. I kind of liked it. Rinse your hands well, hopefully in something that is not too perfumed. I’ll usually wait until the next day to put back things I had to move to feed. It seems lately I’ve been able to feed both of them without having to move a thing. They just snap it right out of my hand.

4/ Don’t hold snake until at least 3-4 days after feeding. And it's a good idea to wait until they have dumped before ya feed them again.

[Auskan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rip_this_joint
2/ Never feed if entering shed. Angelo wouldn’t go for it anyway, but Logos might. [QUOTE]

I've heard differing opinions on this. I'm not sure I agree that you should feed during a shed cycle. I have certainly done it, not necessarily because I knew, but because I didn't know they were in shed. For eg, although I check on my snakes EVERY day, if they are in their hide and don't need cleaning, I don't always disturb the hide to drag them out and check on them, and therefore can miss a couple of blue-eyed days, if they don't happen to come out during those days. Therefore, I can feed, no knowing that a day or two before, their eyes were blue. I don't realize until the old/new skin appears, only a couple of days after eating - and I've never had a problem.

[Auskan]

Originally posted by rip_this_joint
4/ Don’t hold snake until at least 3-4 days after feeding. And it's a good idea to wait until they have dumped before ya feed them again.

Again, I kind of disagree with this. A corn, maybe, since they "dump" so often. But my BP - and many others from what I've heard on here - only defecates once every few months (many times I've heard that they only defecate once every few feedings). If I had to wait until afterwards to handle her, she'd never be handled.

[rip_this_joint]

Thanks for your reply Auskan..I've actually accidently fed when I didn't know the snake was entering shed too, with no problems. I've just heard , as a general rule, it's not a good idea to feed them when in shed as it makes a lump in their belly, thus making the shed a little more difficult. And you have actually cleared something up for me. One of my snakes (both are ball phythons) has pretty much religiously defecated about 4 days after each feeding. But my new one will defecate every third mouse...I was worried, and I held often trying to massage, etc...Now that I know this is common you have put my mind to rest. Thanks again!

[elevation24]

I feed during sheds and have never had a problem. Some of them take it, some of them don't.

And mine defecate once or twice a month. I would never wait until they defecate to feed again.

[rip_this_joint]

thanks again...I haven't been waiting with my female...and if it goes on for too long....a good long warm up on me with some massaging usually triggers a crap....sometimes while im holding...lol

[TannimBP]

one way that I've found that will get my BP's attention is that I will take a FT rat and have it in the brown bag that I brought it home in with it still frozen I will set it on top of her screen for about an hour or three then get the frozen and run it under hot tap water until the head is warm and the body is flexible(no longer cold) EVERYTIME I have done this she eats right away.

Normally only do this if tried feeding before and she wouldn't eat...wait a few days that put the bag on top and down the hatch it goes.