Seperating boa's?

[Ivan (NL)]

Hello I am new overhere and like to know why boa's can't be housed together?

[snakehunter]

too stressfull for them, a male could try to mate a female that is too young and kill her. they also see it as competition for food

[Ivan (NL)]

Like to know, cause I built myself a big cage for two years ago, have 5 Boa constrictor ssp. in it who are always lying next to each other.

Read some things overhere and seems everyone has their boas seperated. Overhere in Holland most people I know have their boa's together. Are there reasons for not housing them together?

Al of my snakes are doing wel i think...

[Ivan (NL)]

Originally posted by snakehunter
too stressfull for them, a male could try to mate a female that is too young and kill her. they also see it as competition for food

When I m feeding the snakes I always feed them in boxes seperated from eachother. Every snake eats good and looks healthy but was just wondering...

[Gary D.]

Actually they can, and many people including myself keep pairs, or more together successfully. However there are good reasons not to. Feeding mishaps are a great reason, untangling two large boas in feeding mode is not fun, nor easy. Cleaning is far more frequent, on a greater scale, and caging needs to be of sufficient size. not to mention transmission of disesase, illness, etc. And there can be associated stress on the animals. In the end it comes down to a personal decission and the animals themselves, how do they respond to the conditions.

GD

[Ivan (NL)]

I feed them al seperately, dont want to take the risk of two strangled snakes. More cleaning thats true but are there other reasons expect stress to seperate their housing?

I'd love to see them al lying together in their cage thats the main reason. Have one other male seperated in quarantain but the idea is he comes in after half a year.

Then the club consists of two males and 4 females

[tHeGiNo]

Most importantly, and most obviously, boa's are solitary animals. They do not want nor like to be housed together. As mentioned, diseases can and will be transferred between them. They will need to compete, so to say, for proper heating spots. Sanitariness is always an issue. Cleaning an enclosure properly with five boas is not always the easiest task. You also face the risk of males combatting for females. Overall, it is just not worth it.

For five boas, I would hope you have a huge enclosure.

[tHeGiNo]

Also a boa at the age of 1 1/2 years should definitely not be housed with adult boas. If you decide to stick with keeping them together, they should all be relatively equal in size.

[Ivan (NL)]

Originally posted by tHeGiNo
Also a boa at the age of 1 1/2 years should definitely not be housed with adult boas. If you decide to stick with keeping them together, they should all be relatively equal in size.

all of my boa's are between 1:75 and 2:50m

the picture of my cage was in the beginning when i had 3 of them together and they were smaller.

in my opinion the cage is more than big enough especially because they are climbing around and have many platforms

[Linds]

*Boas are solitary by nature, it is unnatural to force them to live in such close quarters with eachother on an ongoing basis, even if it is just a little stress, not enough to cause noticable problems, do you really want to impose this on your snakes?
*If one gets sick, it can spread to all the rest before you have a chance to isolate the sick one
*How will you monitor each snake individually? If one were to regurgitate or have a runny poop, how would you know who it came from?
*Even if you seperate them for feeding, there is still a good possibility another may latch on in feeding mode. I've experienced this with Burms before, and believe me... it is a serious situation when you have two very large, powerful contrictors entangled in eachother!
*Multiple males may fight

If you do choose to house them together despite all of the above reasons not to, the cage size needs to be large enough that each snake does not have to be in the area of the other, and for 5 adult boas, that would be the size of a small room.

Really, there are many disadvantages to both keeper and snake for permanently housing them together, but not a single advantage for the snakes to be housed in this manner, only advantage is that it is convenient for the keeper.

The snakes lying together is not them displaying a kindness to one another, but rather temperature conservation, etc.

[MouseKilla]

I'm surprised that no one else that keeps at least a pair together has posted yet... I only have a single male for now but housing a pair together once I have a girl is something I've been contemplating.

I wouldn't do it with any snake other than a boa and I would only do it then because I've heard that boas will basically cycle and mate all on their own this way. Anyone out there doing it this way? Well I know there are one or two around, but I'll let them speak for themselves since it's such an unpopular idea around here.

Let me be the first to point out that I have no experience doing this and for that reason my advice, for or against, would be meaningless.

[Linds]

Originally posted by MouseKilla
I wouldn't do it with any snake other than a boa and I would only do it then because I've heard that boas will basically cycle and mate all on their own this way. Anyone out there doing it this way?

I've never heard of that in my life, only the opposite. That snakes may become overly comfortable and lose interest in breeding eachother if permanently housed together, especially if it has been since they were young. Even during breeding, from what I understand several introductions vs. keeping them together for the entire period, may be more productive.

[MouseKilla]

I have definitely heard the opposite as well of course but there are some people out there that do produce offspring from pairs or communities of snakes. I've heard both sides say that they get better production so I don't know who to believe. I don't think I'll ever do it this way because I think I will just feel better keeping them apart and I dont' like getting too close around feeding time which would be necessary if housed together.

I don't, however accept spread of disease as a reason to keep a pair seperate because they will obviously end up having plenty of opportunity to swap diseases or parasites when you put them together to breed.

[Gary D.]

Actually, I did say I keep a couple of pairs together, and have temoprarily housed as many as four together at one time. Infact one pair (that I acquired as such) seemed more stressed when separated. Not that that is the norm. Linds, I can back Mousekilla on the self cycling/breeding scenario. The afore mentioned pair do this pretty much annually if left to their own devices. Infact I had to separate them last season to prevent breeding. She ended up ovulating and dropping 40 slugs without being near a male for 6 months prior to ovulation, and there was no observed courtship/copulation before hand.

[Jeff_Favelle]

FIVE boas in one cage? Hmmm... and the pet store down the road from me keeps 30 baby Ball Pythons in an aquarium. Perhaps I should re-think my methods for caging?

:rolleyes:

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
FIVE boas in one cage? Hmmm... and the pet store down the road from me keeps 30 baby Ball Pythons in an aquarium. Perhaps I should re-think my methods for caging?

:rolleyes:

LOL, I was wondering what it would take for you to change your ways.. It's about time you see the light Jeff..

[Jeff_Favelle]

Well SPEAKING of lights Matt, I should use a spot light in every cage! Right over the hot rock that's on top of the sand, under my screen lid!

:D :p

[Ivan (NL)]

sorry was just wondering...

[Jeff_Favelle]

No no Ivan, no harm intended. I was just having some fun, but reading back, I realize that it would be a little harsh from your perspective.

Its common belief that housing snakes together is not really a good thing to do. Just because they seem to congregate together or they eat fine, or they look ok, doesn't really tell you a whole lot. Reptiles can't talk. They can't tell you how they feel. They can't tell another conspecific that they need space. They don't outwardly express stress. These are all things that are hidden, or non-existent. It is you job as an owner of these animals to not let those bad things happen, and to promote the good conditions that allow the animals to complete life events and to be snakes.

You boas don't really like each other. They tolerate each other's existence/prescence, but they don't crave companionship. The mechanisms for those responses and emotion simply aren't there. When one boa meets another boa, one of several things can occur:

1) If its two males during breeding season, they fight.
2) If its a mature pair, they might mate.
3) If its just two snakes not interested in mating, they get the impression that they have yet another animal to compete with for resources, and they get stressed and move on, or they sit and wait until he other one leaves.
4) They try to eat each other. Rare, but happens with Epicrates and Eunuctes.

Point is, its just not worth it to keep FIVE boas together in the same cage. That is out of convenience to YOU and not out of good husbandry towards the boas.

[BoidKeeper]

In my opinion, which I'm basing on things I've read and things that I know large breeders do, I feel that snakes should never be housed together. Here are some points that I keep in mind and reasons why I do not house snakes together.
1. The presence of another animal in their space represents competition, competition leads to stress.
2. Stress leads to loss of appetite and or disease.
3. If one sick gets sick they can both get sick.
4. How do you know who is defecating and who is not?
5. Snakes are not social animals so although captivity its self is not natural forcing two animals to live together is even more unnatural.
Now keeping two different species together can open up a whole new can of worms. Different species can be more susceptible to different diseases. Also they can differ in heat and humidity requirements.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Well SPEAKING of lights Matt, I should use a spot light in every cage! Right over the hot rock that's on top of the sand, under my screen lid!

:D :p

So you're saying you don't already?? i guess i'm light years ahead of you.. :D


sorry was just wondering...

Don't appologize..

[Linds]

Originally posted by MouseKilla

I don't, however accept spread of disease as a reason to keep a pair seperate because they will obviously end up having plenty of opportunity to swap diseases or parasites when you put them together to breed.

I don't think you will find anyone that wil dispute that breeding snakes isn't risk-free. All the same problems as being permanently housed, plus more (associated directly with breeding such as injury), are very real. However, it is only temporary, as well as it is completely natural for the snakes. They do come together to breeding the wild, however, they certainly do not spend time together otherwise.