out of control strike response

[snakey]

I have a 5 foot boa who has recently developed a serious strike response. When feeding she strikes so hard I'm afraid she may injure herself, and she lashes out every time I come near the cage. Once I get her out, She is fine. But she has learned to associate me with food and I'm wondering if anyone out there has any advice on how to get her to cool her jets abit before one of us gets hurt! I feed pre-killed mice wich I present directly to her with tongs. Thanks for any help. Tony.:grab:

[snakehunter]

feed her in a different enclosure

[ohh_kristina]

Originally posted by snakehunter
feed her in a different enclosure


I disagree. Get a hook! Your boa is 5 foot right now, but could still grow (perhaps, I don't know the age of the snake in question..I'm assuming). You don't want to have to move a 7+ft snake to a different enclosure for feeding, especially when it has a very big feeding response. Get a hook and learn how to use it.

[themangler]

i think at 5' it should be eating bigger than a mouse,maybe he is just real hungry and just does not want to miss the target,

[gonesnakee]

Feed Her in a different enclosure. She will learn to associate her feeding "tub" with feeding after time. Also if she associates you with feeding always maybe she needs to have more time spent sociallizing (sp) ie:handling. I'm assumming you probably already have & use a hook to first "pull" her out (if not one is advised). She won't take rats or small rabbits? One bigger prey item would mean only 1 strike for a meal. With mice, even Jumbos you would have to feed like a 1/2 dozen at once, thus 6 strikes. Also are you 100% sure she has no mites etc. Boas left unchecked with mites will develop serious atttiutdes the more infested they get. When they feel crappy they will pass it on. I'm not questioning your husbandry or anything, but I have recv. snakes with mites that were just evil, that turned around 100% once the source of their irritation was dealt with properly. Good Luck Mark

[MouseKilla]

I can vouch for the possibility of mites making her grumpy but now that I've had the opportunity to get a personal appreciation for a boa's scary feeding responce I wouldn't think about trying to feed in a seperate enclosure or container.

I don't want to be the closest warm object when my boy's in eating mode. I realize that a lot of people feed this way so I must be missing some of the subtleties... I just don't understand how you're gonna avoid being bitten once a snake is too big to handle and stay out of reach from at the same time once they smell food. Seems to me too that if your snake associates seeing you with eating then it will associate seeing the tub with eating and you're back where you started. A guy I know had his retic bust the door off his enclosure because he wasn't quick enough with the food after setting the feeding tote down.

I think the way to go is to get a hook (if you don't have one already) and get her used to being taken out. I feed my boy every Sunday so I always let him rest a few days but I take him out for a bit on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Not too long, just like 15 minutes maybe so he stays familliar with me. I've noticed that if I don't handle him for a couple of weeks he seems more nervous the next time.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

As stated before, feed the snake in a different enclosure. I dont own a snake hook myself. I know they are useful and do plan on aquiring one some day(within the next year). I believe, and not saying anybody is a wuss, that if yah can't go in and grab the snake yourself with your own bare hands(i hate gloves cause it impairs my feeling) then you should handle the snake or have it for that matter. I actually feel more comfortable using my hands. Since i do plan on getting more into bloods(which may be more agressive than some other species ive kept) i expect i may need a snake hook. I occasionally use a ruler but i use it as an inatimate object to show the snake im there and not elicit a strike(only once have i ever had a snake strike at the ruler i used and it had just eaten). I then proceed with taking the animal out. I used to feed my snakes in large cardboard boxed but now with any custom cage i make, i build a another cage about 1' tall directly on top of the cage and the same floor dimensions. I then line this with cardboard and at every feeding the snake will learn to recodnize this as feeding time. I even have had one snake that every day(tuesday was the feeding day) that was time to feed, i would find the snake roaming around and climbing in the cage, it was a rat snake. The reason I no longer use cardboard boxes or anything that does not seal is because i have lost a snake from a cardboard box before(actually the same ratsnake i just spoke about). I did recover that snake it it continued that habbit for 3 years till i sold it. Anyways, if you do use a snake hook i think it would be fine to take the snake out but i would reccomend putting it straight into your hands once out of the cage. Hope i helped!

Chris

[ReptiZone]

I will tell you one thing I git My pair of boas last year Feb 14.
My female was 4 monts old and my male was 5 monts old.

the Breeder(JKReptiles) said they were well started and were taking fuzzy rats down on a weekly basise. I said good

I got my snakes they were tip top shape I male I ran to the Pet store on feeding day and grabed 4 of the bigest mice you ever seen I fed one to my male and 3 to my female (4 monts old and 3 huge Mice) buy the time she was 6 monts old she was taking 3-4 21 day old rats then I just kept up sizing as i saw fit long storry short I feed her 1 large rat every 7 days till she start to sjed then I let her be and the first meal after a shed she gets 2 large rats. and she is now a year and a few monts old.

all this to politly say get with the program and feed your boa like bao and not like a corn snake.

Now I dont know what all you ppl are smoking with the feed in a difrent enclosure but it may work on ball pythons and corn snakes but with large boas and pythons not the best routine to start. cause after you feed the 8 foot female boa of your if it ever get to be 8 feet you need to grab it and place it back in it's cage now if you think she is bad now wait till she dosne strik at you wait till you get a feeding bite cause she is still in feeding mode.

feed her in her cage and don't bug her for 48 hours then go and handel a bit to let her know you are still around man every time I walk in My herp room I open my animals cages and just give them a rub to let them know I am in the room when I change wather dishes I give them a pat on the back well My burm gets one she is big and tough enugh that it dosent bother her my boas still get rubs on the mid section. even during shed I still touch them not handel them but I do touch them so they know it is me (the care taker) not that they care if I touch them or not but after a while they get into a routine of things and that touch can mean the difrence betwein life and death for a larger snake a big Retic that has alwase had a warning rub ever time you go in the cage since it was a hatchling is les prone to strike at you when it is 20+ feet and being moved to the vet or to a new cage or a holding cage. cause they know that they touch could meen interaction it is a heck of alot beter then jumping your boa from behind the neck with a snake hook or any other way.

I am totaly with CHRISANDBOIDS14 If you can not handel it bare handed don't buy it the bite wont kill you it will just make you respect her witch she is in desperit need of right now.

MAN 5 feet and still on mice man you better hope Favelle dosent read this LOL he will have a strok or a heart attack man he gives adult mice to Hatchling ball pythons.

I my sound like a prick but you realy should have done your reserch B4 geting your snake or maby you did the reserch and said to your self well if I don't feed as much it won't get as big.

The ReptiZone
Marc Doiron

[snakey]

some of you are very objective, and polite, some of you are rude and condisending. All of you have been helpful. F.Y.I. she is 5 ft.long, 1.5 years old and eats 3 jumbo mice-week. I don't know how much she weighs but rest assured she is quite healthy. As for the rats versus mice issue, I am well aware she is ready to step up to rats, but locating some of the correct size is easier said than done in this rural area where I live. As for having done my research, this is by no means my first boa and I have been keeping snakes my entire life...I am 41 years old. I have met Bill Hass and his lovely wife, and I am no dummy when it comes to keeping snakes. I have simply never had this problem before. I don't like the use of a hook... never had one, but maybe it's time to get one. My last boa I raised for 13 yrs., and sold to a breeder, at 11.5 ft.and I never had this issue. She does not have parasites and is in perfect health. In fact, she has one of the best cages I've ever built. She is very well cared for. I was just wondering if anyone knows any tricks [besides transfer to another enclosure] wich may lessen the violent strike respons and eliminate the association of me with food.

[Ryan and Katie]

Reptizone- I feed in and out of the cages for differnt reasons. I do have a large boa (BCI) that gets fed out of her cage once in a while. She has a very strong feeding response in and out of the cage. The best way I deal with this is by using a towl,book,rubbermaid lid, as a baffle and then grab the animal. I have found doing this will calm the animal once you can get ahold of it. Most snakes feeding response will disapear when you have got them out...
Why would this mean that I must be smoking something??? I have yet to be bite by that girl and I will keep it that way if possible...

[Stav.T]

Hi snakey,

If you would like my opinion, I say that the only problem she has is that she dosent eat enough. No matter how Jumbo the mice are they dont weight enough. I presume they are in the 30 to 40g ....so it makes 90 to 120g if you give them 3 as you say. A boa at 5 feet should eat around 3 or4 pound of rodens which is about 2000g or 2kg.
Your guy is missing around 1500 to 1800g of food each time you feed it. Try to feed it more i'm sure it will change his behaviour.
( It would be a good idea to post some pics of it in your hands to compare size it will give a better idea.)

Hope that helps
Stav

[Linds]

Originally posted by CHRISANDBOIDS14
I know they are useful and do plan on aquiring one some day(within the next year). I believe, and not saying anybody is a wuss, that if yah can't go in and grab the snake yourself with your own bare hands(i hate gloves cause it impairs my feeling) then you should handle the snake or have it for that matter. I actually feel more comfortable using my hands. Since i do plan on getting more into bloods(which may be more agressive than some other species ive kept) i expect i may need a snake hook.

Hmmm... you seem to be contradicting yourself over a few times in that paragraph. You say that while snake hooks are useful and you plan on getting them in the future because you may need them with bloods, that if you don't just use your bare hands that you shouldn't be owning or handling it :confused: :confused:

Originally posted by ReptiZone
I am totaly with CHRISANDBOIDS14 If you can not handel it bare handed don't buy it the bite wont kill you it will just make you respect her witch she is in desperit need of right now.


Disagreed. If you are afraid of the snake, then it is best to wait until you are ready, however snake hooks are very useful in both reducing stress on the animal and as a safety enforcement for the handler. Some snakes can become very agressive in their enclosures but are fine once they are retrieved via a snake hook, they do not recognize it as a threat or food item (typically) so both the snake doesn't get overly upset and the handler avoids an unecessary bite. Some snakes have big teeth, just because the keeper doesn't want to get bitten every single time they habdle that snake, is not to mean they are afraid of getting bitten or aren't experienced enough, just means they do not feel like getting a serious bite or stitches everyday. Some very large conststrictors such as retics and burms also require careful handling for the safety of the keeper. Snake hooks do have an important part in handling snakes and are by no means indicative of inferior skills or fear. Gloves on the other hand, those are dangerous to the snake and are not a useful took in handling snakes.

[ReptiZone]

sorry Linds That is what I ment I hate gloves and even with a hook you are bare handed you are not wearing gloves to handel the snake with a hook. I was refering to ppl That need gloves and a garbage can cover to handle there animals.

[JDouglas]

I have to say I agree with Linds. LOL This has been one of the most rediculous threads I have ever read. Snake hooks are a valuable tool and should be used. Anyone who says otherwise is either inexperienced or foolish. Also, you are much more likely to get bit by feeding outside the cage because you have to handle the boa. Why would you want to handle your boa with the smell of rodents in the air and then have to handle it right after it eats? Why does this seem so obvious to me and not others? The best way is to feed inside the cage with tongs so your hand is not in striking distance and to use a hook when picking up the boa.

Now back to this person's question. I have had a few boas that would strike the glass when I walked by. This stopped after giving them better hides that didn't face the glass. I also agree that this may be a hunger strike. I feed my five foot boas one very large rat every two weeks. There are many suppliers of frozen feeder rats in the US who will ship them to your door. Or you can drive to a show in Kansas City or St. Louis and pick them up there from Jason at Classic Dum's.
Good Luck

[snakey]

Thanks very much to all of you. I am always glad to give and recieve information on snakes. But as we all know, most of it is only opinion, based on personal experience. The two most sensible opinions, in my opinion, came from Jaremy and Kristina. I can't imagine wrestling her back and forth when she is 10 ft. long every time I feed, into and out of a different container, especialy when she is arroused for chow. Over the years Iv'e been nailed a few times including a 9ft. retic who refused to let go! And a 6 ft. black rat on my nose ,just to name a few. So I suppose I will invest in a hook, feed in place, handle her more, and get my carcass to the next show for some ratfinks. Another thing was my own failure to notice that she had left a big stinky in her cave and was therefore hungreier than I realized. She has since been fed and is snooozing comfortably on her ledge under the heat pannel. My indigos never ever poop in the hide box so I just did'nt think to look there. Gues I'll have to keep a closer eye on that too. Just goes to show that even after 41years of playing with snakes I still don't know it all, but I always love to learn! Thanks a bunch guys, maybe we'll meet at a show. Watch for my art work, and eventualy I hope to get these indigos to make some babies. Gota go ,...Tony.

[Piers]

I to say get the snake onto rats or rabbits. You say you live in a rural area, so go find a local farm auction and get some rabbits. I'll worn you first it will take a few visits to get to bid well learn to check out the animals befor you bid. They usually have an area were they keep the animals for sale so you can see if there is anything worth biding for.
When I had big boas(9feet,35+ pounds) this was a great way,and cheep, to feed them.
As for hooks, they are a must as far as I'm conserned. I actually use the handle part to touch the snake just to let them know I'm not food. after that they are usually fine.
As for bites, I've had more than most and one that was a "pumper" snake hit a vain /artery and I waspumping blood like there was no tomorow. So when some one says "just grab it" think for your self!
Piers

[MouseKilla]

Stav,

You're saying 5 foot boa should be eating 2000g meals? This sounds frighteningly large to me. I have a male that is not quite 5 feet and I'm giving him 200g rats on a weekly basis and it certainly looks to be enough, can't imagine him eating a meal that's much bigger around so to do that I would have to feed him 10 rats the same size as the ones I'm feeding him now... Am I missing something here?

[ReptiZone]

No it would actualy just have to be 2 rats that weigh 250gram a week that is 4 feedings 8 rats 8X250=2000 or you could just get one 1Lb bunny a week. Cause 2000grams =4.41Lbs so 4X1lb=4lb so you will be missing.41 witch is not realy the end of the world.

[chas*e]

You need to get a care sheet....and feed your snake the proper size meal...at that size she should eat XL Rats for sure...anyways good luck

[MouseKilla]

I thought he meant 2kg/week... that's different

[Yve]

i feed my burm (she's 7ft) in her enclosure but I do it quickly...I don't tong feed her I just open the sliding glass doors on the end she is furthest from and throw it close the door and leave the room. If I dilly dally and she gets the scent of the rats she's at the glass staring at me! When I'm not feeding her, I open the door quickly and grab her body this seems to signal that I'm not food and she's being pulled out of the tank. So far I've had no problems with her mistaking me for food. Mind you, she is a placid animal and I handle her quite often to keep her that way.
I think it helps to be swift when feeding. When the smell of rat is in the air several of my snakes will come out of their hides and put their faces to the glass!lol

[Auskan]

Even if rats aren't available in your area, can't you order them online in bulk and keep them in your freezer?

[snakey]

Yes but shipping costs $. Don't worry she gets plenty, And I'll go to a show and get some ratfinks soon.