Water spotting

[marisa]

Hello!

We are getting a acrylic cage in Feb for our GTP (from Mark Pepper because i saw his cages at a show and didnt stop thinking about them since! lol) And eventually I want acrylic for some of my other stuff. I have VERY hard water here....on my tarantula tanks and all the fish tanks the white build up/water spots happens like mad. I don't so much mind it on those things, but the whole point of purchasing a clear cage is viewing.

I'd like to avoid as many spots as I can, and since I will have to spray often if I use my water the cage will be white in weeks. I asked on a Chondro forum on the net and they recommended Reverse Osmosis water for the least spotting. I know nothing about water....does this sound right or do you guys have any ideas for me? And if this is right, this is o.k. for the snakes primary drinking water?

Thanks,
Marisa

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

You can go to like a safeway or something and they have those huge clear water jugs for those little water machines. Those things do reverse osmosis. Im not sure if it would do anything to your water. I think the machine actually gives you the water(i forget :D). But anyways, it leaves no "white" residue as you call it. Most of that is calcium from the water(i think?). Hope i helped.

Chris

[AshleyL]

I had the same problem with my glass going white. Distilled water seems to be working for me!

[vanderkm]

Spring water might be a viable alternative - we used it for frogs that needed to access some minerals in the water but it did not create the spots on glass. I am not too sure of the degree to which reverse osmosis purification works for drinking water, but it can be set up to remove virtually as much as distillation and it is my understanding that distilled water is not desirable for snakes to drink (not as bad as for frogs or fish though!)

Might be worth trying the spring water on a sample of acrylic first to make sure it doesn't spot. We paid about $3 for a huge jug from WalMart.

mary v.

[Memnoch]

R/O (reverse osmosis) filtration is suppose to take out ~98% of the junk in water. I guess depending on the quality of the R/O unit, the closer the water will be to "pure" water.

Distilled water and R/O is both suppose to give you "pure" water. Marine hobbyiests tend to prefer r/o over distilled water b/c distilling tends to be done in copper vats and there is a potential of copper leaching back into the water (which is BAD for corals and other marine inverts).

With that being said, using 100% pure water either from R/O filtration or distillation is questionable from a health standpoint. Medically speaking (for humans), drinking "pure" water can be bad for you if you b/c it will draw out the minerals from your body and cause you to have an electrolyte imbalance. If you are healthy, your body should be able to replenish any lost minerals. So techically if you're unhealthy, drinking "pure" water can actually dehydrate you.

Now with regards to animals, I would assume that the same theory would apply, especially with a species that needs high ambient humdity to survive. I would imagine that using "pure" water may be detrimental b/c when you spray it on your GTP or whatever animal you have, minerals and water from the animal will actually diffuse outwards (high concentration in the animal moving towards the low concentration in the "pure" water).

Does this make sense to anyone else?

One last thing, the "spots" that you are referring to are mineral deposits. They are not necessarily calcium, but they usually tend to be various types of salts.

Memnoch_lcf

[marisa]

I'd love to know if it would in fact be harmful. I am desperate to not have water spots but I cetaintly wouldn't give him something that's not suitable.

Any other options?

Marisa

[Invictus]

RO water is absolutely fantastic in every way. We used it at the evil pet store I worked at, and never had a problem with water spotting, and it was also used as drinking water for the snakes. Distilled is also fabulous, and is quite affordable.

[Memnoch]

Marisa : Depending on where you live, you might want to do half and half. So that there is still some salts in the water.

On the other hand, it's quite unlikely that there will be any short term effects... Mineral or electrolyte imbalances tend to take a while to occur unless there is some exisiting problem already.

Marisa, what size of the enclosure did you get? And how large is your GTP? I'm asking b/c I was contemplating purchasing an acrylic enclosure for one of my yearling GTPs.

[Siretsap]

Distilled water will drain the minerals out of your animal. You musn't give distilled water to your animals unless recommanded by your vet (let's say for a very old cat who can't digest properly anymore).

Also osmosis is basically the same thing, takes out all the minerals out of the water so you end up with a liquid that will absorb some of the drinker's minerals.

And yes bottled natural spring water will still have some calcium build up residues, but depending on the region it comes from it can take a very long time.

Mix half and half, or 3/4 to 1/4 untill you get the mixture you desirue and doesn't leave the calcium deposits. But do not give it only distilled water.

[marisa]

Memnoch- My GTP is almost a year old. He is currently living in a small rubbermaid. I purchased a acrylic 2 by 2 by 2 square from Mark Pepper which we are picking up at the next show. I am hoping this will be big enough for a good few years, but in the future I'd like to purchase another with another foot of length, just for "extra" space....I won't really know until I get home with the cage if we will be putting him in it now, or waiting until he is slightly larger.

Natural Spring water sounds like it would be the choice then...minerals still in it, but less spotting.

Marisa

[greg schroeder]

My views, thoughts and opinions

To clean mineral deposits left by water, a product called CLR works pretty good for me. Remove the animal from the enclosure when cleaning, and be sure you get all the product off when your done. It has an acidic pH level.

The benefit of water is best with a neutral or slightly alkaline pH balance. Reverse Osmosis water is generally neutral in pH. Distilled water is acidic. I wouldn't use distilled.

[Sonyr]

All of my subadults/adults are housed in acrylic cages. I only use regular tap water when cleaning or misting the cages. The only thing I do before cleaning/misting is to just let the water sit overnight in a bucket, so that the chlorine evaporates. The solution I use when cleaning the cages are: 85% water, 10% vinegar(to keep the cages smelling fresh, and about 5% bleach. Ive had these cages for about a yr now, and if you clean on a regular basis, shouldn't have any water spots.

[drewlowe]

I've been an avid RO person for a few years now. I drink it and my herps drink it. I use it for water dishes and misting. I don't have water spotting on my cages at all from using it. There's a product from exo-terra that i add to their water.

[Cake]

The reason you are getting the water spots or the glass is the presence of calcium carbonate in your water. It is comming from the bed rock, most likey its limestone from where ever your drinking water comes from.

Spraying your snakes with distilled water will not affect them as they do not secret salts throught their skin. The major component in snake scales is keratin which is impermiable to pretty much everything. So it will not cause any adverse effect to your friends.(I have a picture of snake scales in on of my lab books ill try and post it)

To get rid of the water spots i suggest spraying with disstilled or spring water, and provide a water bowl with regular tap water for the snake to drink this will keep the enclosure spot free and provide him with essential minerals.

[Memnoch]

Cake:

I thought we'd already establish that the water spots were due to water hardness. But at any rate, that is not the reason of my reply. I did not imply that pure water will cause salts to diffuse out from the snake's skin. What I did say was that pure water, once drank, will start to cause an electrolyte imbalance internally. To be specific, the when the snake drinks the water, soluble minerals (i.e. salt) will diffuse from the snake's body into the water because of the high-low gradient.

Secondly, although it is true that keratin is a major component of snake scales, snake scales are not impermiable to "pretty much everything". In addition, the permeablity does vary per species. With respect to water, desert species would have more impermeable scales to help prevent them from drying out. However, with GTPs, they originate from a climate which has lots of rain and high humidity, thus they either lost their ability to hold water in or never actually acquired it. I'm not sure if you've actually kept GTPs before Cake, but the reason why you spray them is because they (GTPs and ETBs) tend to drink from the beads of water that accumulate on their scales. If I dare go out on a limb, I'd say that if a GTP or ETB is drinking out of a water dish, he/she is getting quite dehydrated simply b/c that's not what they're programmed to do.

One last thing, I don't mean to blast you (Cake) in particular, I just wanted to set the facts straight.


Drewlowe: Depending which exoterra additive you're using, it's most likely a dechorinator or a mineral supplement. Also, R/O water for humans tends to only filter up to 5-10 microns giving about 80% pure water. The "real" R/O, like the one Coke using for Dalsani (before they add all the supplements back in) takes out 99.5%, leaving almost pure water.

[Cake]

I did not take your post as a blast directed towards me.

I was unaware that GTP's drink off their bodies as i have never kept them and my experience with them is very limited.

You are correct in saying that there is a range in epidermal permiability in snakes depending on their habitat, however i think you have over estimated this range. GTP's have developed the ability to osmoregulate their epidermis and have not lost this ability. By saying this you are placing them below that of teleost's. Plasma osmolality of any terrestrial animal is well above that of fresh water.

I have read a journal article on california king snakes that states the the permiability of their epidermis increase 4 fold within the first two sheds after hatching. Developing snakes being almost osmoconfornmers untill late stages of development. I know this species does not live in the same habitat as GTP's so spare me this argument i am simply using it as an example.