rat breeding

[blazinreps]

this week i will be getting a pair of ball pythons. and i want to breed my own rats to feed. and i dont know much about breeding rats. i was wondering if any one could give me any info on caging and feeding and breeding and any dos and donts. also could they post pics of there rodent breeding setups racks and enclosures.

[sapphire_moon]

I will give you my best info possible as I myself just started breeding.

Caging.

Get a large sized rubbermaid cut a square in the top, put hardware cloth on top of the hole, We used bolts to keep the hardware cloth nice and tight.

Go down the side of the rubbermaid some and drill a hole in the side about the size of a water bottle nozzle. Attach your water bottle add litter, dump some food in the bottom in a cornor (or a bowl) or you could always go fancy and make a drop down bowl in the top of the hard ware cloth.

Food,

alot of people will say mazuri breeder rat food. But I use ol'roy bites and bones.

If you got a good sized rubber maid (say 20 by 12 x 8 inches) then you can put a 1.3 in there (1 male to 3 female)
Leave the male in with the females at all times. And just let them do their thing.

[Auskan]

I must confess I'm a bit of a softie and I have rat cages with all the bells and whistles. I read a post one time about rats that chewed their way out of rubbermaids so I guess I was too scared to go that route even though I keep my snakes in rubbermaids! Anyway, the first cage I got looks like a wire bird cage sitting in a cat litter tray. It has a wheel built in (that they do use) and three levels with ramps and ladders and so on. Then when my female unexpectedly had a litter 4 days after I got her, I got a 10-gallon aquarium and screen top (with clips) for the mother and her litter, leaving the real rat cage for the 3 weanlings.

Food. I feed dog food - look for one that is about 21-22% protein if you are going to be continuously breeding. I also supplement with fresh vegies, food scraps that are not high in fat, and once a week, some cubes of bread soaked in olive oil.

[Linds]

Efficiency is the key to this, which means avoiding pet store purchases for the most part...
I use low-quality dog food. It is mainly grain, but has enough fat and protein to support breeding females and growing babies (21% protein 7% fat works well). I purchase 32 kg at a time for $24.
I get 3.5 compressed cubic foot bags of pine shavings for $4.50 each from the local co-op. There are other types of substrates avilable there as well, but definitely avoid cedar!

You can handle babies and clean their cages as soon as the day they are born. Do not add any new members to the colony however, and do not keep more than one male in a breeding colony. Waterbottles are a must, dishes get filed with shavings two seconds after they are put in the cage :rolleyes:

Here is my setup (missing from the pic is a 3' blue tub on the floor)...

<img src="http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/504/22themeatfarm.jpg">

[blazinreps]

wow thanx for the info i have 3 empty rabbit cages all wire top plastic bottom style do u think they would be able to chew out of it??? and do i have to seperate the nursing female and babies from the male???

[Auskan]

No, no need to separate. But - never add a male to a colony that already includes babies as the first thing he will do is kill them all off.

[Linds]

Rabbit cages are made to withstand rabbits, and they chew fairly bad as well, however what kind of wire cage is it? If it is the kind that has 1" spaces between the bars, small rats can easily escape them :eek: If you are worried the rats can fit through the bars, and still want the cages, you can put hardware cloth over top of the bars ;)

Removing the females to give birth is counterproductive, as you want the male to reimpregnate her soon after she gives birth, so that after the litter is weaned, she is close to giving birth again. If you remove the female, you need to wait for her to wean the litter before you can introduce her to the male, then wait until she becoems pregnant and wait out that term.

[sapphire_moon]

If you want to save on space avoid those pet store cages and go with a rubbermaid that is square with no ledges or edges in it. I have had 3 rats in my rubbermaid for about 3 weeks and they are fine, have never chewed on it.

Go to

http://www.bigappleherp.com/Reptile_Supplies/Product/Big_Apples_Professional_Rodent_Cage_110100.html

they have "professional" cages that I myself would like to get one day.

[mykee]

I use those EXACT cages for my 14 colonies of 1.2 and they thrive. I prefer smaller quarters for my breeding rats, as I would prefer them to get less exercise, get a little fatter, so that their body can sustain large liters without burning out. I feel that room to run around and exercise is counterproductive to breeding large, healthy litters.

[Jayson]

Just a thought mykee? Is a fat unfit rat more nutritional then a lean well exercised rats ? Not that i disagree with your living quarters or anything, I keep 1.4 in a jumbo cat litter pan. Its just that i do it to be cost effective. If i wanted to keep long lived healthy breeders i would think that lean and healthy would be the better way to go.

[Auskan]

Actually, I kind of agree with you Jayson. I don't think fat and healthy very often go together.

[mykee]

Carrying a higher amount of fat, which will in turn be used to make MORE babies is good. Jayson, I don't feed my breeders, just my feeders; they go to an overflow rack where there is plenty of room. I trade out my breeders every 8-12 months or so, so a 'long lived healthy breeder' is not of utmost importance to me, simply because once they retire they become food.

[sapphire_moon]

plus if they are "lean and healthy" and you breed back to back, the mother is going to become severly ill. You will want a fat rat. The fat will help the mother give birth to better litters, and when she curls up around the babies it will keep them warmer if she can actually fit over ALL the babies......(they have how many babies in a liter? 8-25 sometimes?)

[Auskan]

Ok, now you guys have got me to thinking that maybe I would be better off with my guys in rubbermaids!!! (Thanks a lot, btw LOL).

[sapphire_moon]

oh mykee! I thought you were talking about the rabbit cages! I was thinking to myself "he don't seem like he would keep rats in rabbit cages!lol.

Do those work good? Could you keep 1.3 in them? I've been thinking about ordering some, but don't want to order something that I won't use, or just becomes useless to me. Can you post some pics of yours in use?

Rubbermaids and those professional ones are really good Auskan, I got a used breeder professional one (actually from that pet store I told you about! they have ones for mice to if you are breeding them). I am going to be using to grow up some feeders next week.

[blazinreps]

well i will be gettin my rats 1.2 colony some time this week and putting them in a large rabbit cage with less then an inch inbetween the bars. do any more ppl ahve pics of there setups?

[sapphire_moon]

actually if the cage is that big, then you can probably put a 1.3 in it.

[mykee]

Sapphire, I keep 1.2 in those rat racks, I personally think they're too small for 1.3, but that's just me. Other than that, I love them, and get excellent rat production in them. I'll post some pics as soon as I take a few.

[mykee]

Sapphire, here are a couple pics of my rats racks in use: this one is their configuration:
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1004rack11-med.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1004rack12-med.jpg

And lastly, an overhead of the rack with the lid off, for a size comparison. The three rats in here are 500-600g.
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1004rack13-med.jpg

[One More Herper]

Awsome- where did you get those mykee?

[sapphire_moon]

wow those look kinda small, I think i'll stick to my rubbermaids. Do you have the dimensions of those? LxWxH?

[mykee]

One More: www.bigappleherp.com.
Sapphire: 9" tall, 16" long and 13" wide.

[sapphire_moon]

well she did it. We had 3 kits left over from feeding them off and such. And she convinced me to keep the 2 males, and I had already planned on keeping atleast 1 female if there were any left....hmph. now we have to go BUY f/t's.......oh well......these ones will be strictly pet.
I told her she could only have them on a few conditions.

Since they will be pets, it is cruel to have just 1, so she would have to have 2...both males (hence me not having any feeders!lol)

We have to get another rubbermaid to put the 1.1 in (soon to be 1.2 once the little female reaches 5 wks she will be sexually mature)

She has to provide proper food (not dog food) and proper bedding (not pine bedding) to them.

and SHE has to clean out the cage!! lol

It was the little hooded one and a white one.

ohh well, she already has a nice fat firm belly....:) so more in about 1.5-2wks). And I'm "pretty sure" that the other ones are prego.......one more month without producing and it's to "The Belly" for them.

I keep telling her it's going to be pointless to breed them if we are going to keep them all! lol
Oh well atleast we can socialise these ourselves so we know they won't be bitey.


Edit:

I do like your set up thoug Mykee. It gives me ideas!