Help!!!!!

[~Suntiger~]

About 5 minutes ago, I glanced over and saw my two yellow rat snakes getting it on! Cool right? UM OK, not when they are both supposed to be MALES!!!!!!!!!

But then, I've heard that males will from time to time engage in such activities, so I didn't get too alarmed (aside from the initial shock!)

HOWEVER after observing them for a minute or two, I noticed them twisting and spiralling rather violently, and there was some blood on them. Not tons, but enough to be like "Holy ****!!!" For awhile, the one snake still had his goods hangin' out all over the place, but just now (less than 10 minutes after I noticed their, er, activities) it's no longer visible.

I'm a little alarmed here! Should I just separate them now, or will that bother them? Do they have to have round two now or something? Should I assume that the one snake could be a female, and set him/her up in case he/she wants to lay eggs eventually? And, do they USUALLY bleed?!?!

[gonesnakee]

Well you should be happy because it is usually they are supposed to be girls & you end up with a boy(s). I'm guessing the blood is from the males hemipenes & this does happen sometimes during breeding due to the sometimes violent nature of it. Male snakes are very forcefull to get what they want whether "she" wants it or not. From the way they "were" it all adds up anyhow. Sounds like it was a rough session, so I would seperate them for a few days rest before more breeding. Make sure that the males hemipenes are not still out (inverted) as this can pose health problems such as infection etc. & sometimes they do get injured during sex (I guess thats why they have 2 LOL). If the male appears OK (no inversion of hemipenes or bleeding from the vent) give them a few days rest & then breed them a few more times. Try to be present to make sure they aren't too rough on one another as you may need to intervene. Did the blood come from their vents for sure? I ask this because male snakes wil actually bite the female quite hard sometimes trying to get their way & sometimes the girls bite back too. Cal Kings are actually quite violent to watch sometimes because of this & injuries can happen. If they have any "battle wounds" make sure they are kept clean & watch for secondary infections. Sometimes the first bowel movement after a hardcore sex session will show some minor blood spots, but that is it. If there are any signs of major amounts or continued bleeding seek some vet help. I hope I help put your mind at ease & good luck with the breeding. You will be able to tell if the female becomes gravid & she will eventually need a proper setup with nesting box for egg laying etc. when the time comes. Good Luck Mark
P.S. they may have not finished the deed either. Did you see any signs of his "goo" after. If you did you know he finished anyhow. LOL

[~Suntiger~]

I am 95% sure that the blood was coming from the vent, and haven't seen any "goo".
If they get all rough and tough again during round two, how exactly should I go about intervening? And when is rough "too rough"? I don't want to cause them any unnecessary stress if I can help it, that's for sure.

[gonesnakee]

Well thats a hard call because they can go at it pretty hard. If one is biting hard enough that it looks like its causing real damage I'd try to make him (usually the male) let go. They will usually just grab on & hold tight, but if he has her by the head & is twisting watch out. Sometimes they will try to eat one another during breeding too, but this is usually a Cal King thing. If you do interven watch your fingers LOL & be very carefull with the tail ends also because as you already know he can be injured down there quite easily sometimes. I would never try to force them apart as you can easily injure him. Hopefully he will be more of a gentleman for round 2. Mark

[~Suntiger~]

Ok, they are now separated! I suppose I'll let them have another go at it in a few days if they're interested.

[Stockwell]

If there was a corkscrew,twisting action going on, it could indeed be that you have two males... Males, in season(have been cooled) will fight violently with other males on occasion, but its a bit different than courtship. In heterosexual courtship the female will eventually stop moving, and the male will bite the neck and follow the female around and around, eventually finding the sweet spot.
With two males combating they can sometimes end up twisting up together like elastic bands, and biting is also common, but frequently on the tail or near the vent rather than the neck.
Although copulation doesn't usually occur, it can or at least the penes can be fired, but often don't find a target and this can result in them remaining everted and dragging around the cage which is very dangerous.
I think it's important that you determine the gender of the snakes. Just looking at the tails should be all it takes, and you definately know you have at least one male to compare the other to.
Males have longer tails that are very thick at the base, as they house the penes... Females tails are shorter taper off very quickly after the cloaca..The difference is quite noticable...
Take a good look, and get the second opionion from a fellow herper

Snakes should generally be housed separately anyway, but I'm sure you've heard all that...:)

[gonesnakee]

Unca Roy has filled in the rest of the blanks for you : ) I'll 2nd that you had definately make sure they are opposite sexes, otherwise round 2 will take on a total new meaning. No sense letting 2 males just kick the crap outta one another. Mark