Looking for info on Photoelectric cells?

[BoidKeeper]

Does anyone know where I can buy one in Canada?
Thanks,
Trevor

[leoncurrie]

No

[BoidKeeper]

Gee, thanks Leon. Bang up job man. Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Trevor

[Lisa]

you might try electronics supply places. I only know a couple in toronto such as active electronics and active surplus. i think radio shack used to sell them but they don't have much in the way of parts anymore.

[mark129er]

I don't know if this is exactly what you are looking for but it may give you a jumping off point:
http://www.rodmaninternational.com/photoelectric-cells.htm

[BoidKeeper]

Thanks Mark. Those are close but what I need does the exact opposite. What I'm looking for turns the lights on when the sun comes up and turns them off when the sun goes down.
Thanks,
Trevor

[Wuntu Menny]

Almost any lighting supplier should be able to provide what you're looking for. You'll most likely find units for residential applications at your neighborhood hardware store.

WM

[Scales Zoo]

The general hardware store kind are pretty good.

I just threw some industrial types into the trash in my annual "throw everything away you haven't used in a year" throw away fest. They had sensitivity settings, heavy duty relay contacts..... Then 2 weeks later, i realized I could use them for so many things. The industrial types are usually expensive, I had gotten some salvage ones from a friend for free.

Ryan

[JonD]

Yeah Crappy Tire even has those!!!

[jim mcallister]

Trevor, i can get you the type that fit outdoor streetlights or dust to dawn lights if thats any good to ya...

[Lisa]

you could try solar cells to power a relay to switch the power on and off. solar cell gets light - light comes on. sun goes down, light goes off. Or you could try just getting enough solar cells to power the lights themselves.

[Stockwell]

Trev, all the commercially available ones, have the opposite logic to what you are looking for.
I've looked at a bunch of them and they all power the load with lights OUT , NOT on!!
If any had a double throw output you could simply use the other contact for your logic reversal, however all the ones I've seen have only one throw.
To overcome this, you must use the units to turn on a relay. The relay must be a double throw type that closes a contact both when it's on, and when its off. You simply use the contacts that are made when sensor is detecting light.

I used to make my own circuits to do this function, but the logistics of wiring a separate gizmo and interfacing it to my overhead herp room light, just wasn't worth the aggravation.
I suggest you simply replace you normal light switch with one of those electronic timers.
I've done that in my herp and mouse room...they work great, and you can change the time throughout the season to reflect what's happening with the sun.
Its just much easier, than making special circuits to put in the window and then dealing with all the wiring. Plus you don't have to worry about having no ligts on a dark rainy day.
PS...you don't need light cycles for snakes anyway. It's a myth

[BoidKeeper]

PS...you don't need light cycles for snakes anyway. It's a myth
Oh come on Roy. You can't just make a statment like that and leave it hanging. You're gonna have to back that one up for me if you don't mind. That is a bold statment Unkie Roy. I'm not saying I don't belive you but I need evidence that contradicts what I've read thus far.
I'll start by asking you this,
Why would the Sutherlands go through the trouble of hooking a photo cell into their helix in order to have their ambiants and basking spot temps in sinc with the sun if it was not need for cycling snakes?
Look forward to you reply,
Trevor

[Stockwell]

Well, let me tell you this, I've been breeding snakes for a quarter century this year... I have never used anything close to a natural light cycle ever, yet I have produced thousands of snakes.
I was producing Regius back in the 80's when even zoo's couldn't breed them... This was accomplished with artificial rains, and night time low temp cycling but it was done without any light cycles and without heat geared to light cycles.
In the 90's my cages were what we called "banks" and they had a couple fluorescent lights but these were more for me than the snakes and they were off most of the time.
Now that I have everything in racks, I have only one overhead light with two 4 foot tubes, to illuminate the entire room....
There are no lights in most rack systems..(mine and everyone elses)
I have the room light on a timer, just for convenience, but during the winter when I'm not in there every day, I just manually switch it to off...
Corey Woods, and most other breeders do not have any resemblance of normal light cycles on their charges either...
Like I said, it just isn't necessary... Most commonly kept species are nocturnal anyway...certainly all Boids are, and even rat and kingsnakes do most hunting at dusk and dawn..
Temperature cycling is what's critical for reproduction, proper digestion and incubation... not lighting.

now of course there might be the odd species that can benefit from light... (diamonds) but none I've worked with.

Now why don't you ask me about thermal gradients... i don't use those either...LOL
I heat my entire room, and it does cycle up and down in 4 steps per day but only gravid female Boids have heat tape.
Most of my trays have NO heat gradient and never have.

[BoidKeeper]

Well I'd say that your methods are unconventional but since you've been doing it longer than the convetional methods have been around I guess I don't have a convetional leg to stand on.
For clarification about the light, I'm refering to the light in the room, not the cages. So are you saying that at 10pm when the sun is down it makes no difference to my snakes whether the lights in my snake room are on or not?
As for not using gradiants. Do you mean that your cages are not set in such a way that can't thermoregulate where ever they want to?
Cheers,
Trevor

[Stockwell]

Trev,my lights are on when I'm in the room, and that is often in the middle of the night. There are no windows either, so my room is dark most of the time.
With rack systems the ambient room light is pretty insignificant anyway as it doesn't get into the trays much , as closely stacked trays shade one another,and there is generally wood on 3 sides, so any light from the room is rather subtle to say the least.
Some of my racks are still Jumbo Kitty litter pans
that are solid grey plastic.
With only an inch between trays, no light is getting into them anyways, whether the room light is on or off, they are pretty close to dark all the time.

With my racks, every square inch of them is the exact same temperature because like I said, other than pans that contain gravid female Boids, they have no supplemental heating whatsoever.... Sure the snake can move around, but they aren't really doing much thermoregulating, because the cage is the same temp as the room.
There is none of this hot side, cold side stuff.
Heating the entire room, is the way I have always done it. It's the way most herpers with large collections use to do it, because it's more efficient to control the entire room, and heat tape for local heating, hasn't been around for that long.
And I don't agree that it's non conventional.
I think its all the new hyper sensitive herpers
that fuss way too much that are non-conventional.
Of course I appreciate all the finiky fussing is all done with good intentions, but I feel sometimes the effort is unnesessary.

I can pretty much guarantee you that if you have healthy mature ball pythons,and you temperature condition them properly while providing adequate humidity and food intake, you'll end up with fertile eggs, whether you
have them under Power twist vitalights, or in total darkness.

[BoidKeeper]

I think its all the new hyper sensitive herpers
Well I certainly fit into that group.
All very interesting stuff to read Roy. A lot of it goes agaisnt what I've always been told but you can't argue with results. If you weren't so sucessful I would disregard what you're saying as crazy talk but you can't argue with success.
Here is how I do it. Tell me what you think.
Each cage has a basking spot whether it be a ball, boa, corn or Leo. Each set to that species required temp.
The cool side is the same as the temp in my room. During the day I heat the room to 85 summer 80 winter. At night it's 80 summer and 75 winter. So in the case of the balls, when the sun goes down the timer turns of their hot spots and I turn the thermostate down to 75. In the morning I turn the heat back up when the sun starts to come up. The timer turns on the heat pads.
So is this over kill?
Thanks,
Trevor

[Stockwell]

Yup! I'd say it's overkill
All the species you keep are fine with the same temp.. If you heat the entire room, that's all you need. I suggest a daytime high of 82-85 days for the winter, with a drop to 68 to 72 at night.
That will ensure your Regius & boas will be getting cool enough to encourage fertile copulations... Leos don't care... I sometimes stick mine in the living room with no heat or light or food for at least a month...
Your corns should be hibernating at 55F right about now. Sure you don't absolutely have to shut them down but Think of the food you'll save

I generally stick as much in brumation as possible, unless I'm trying to put extra size on some neonates, in which case they go into the incubator all winter and chow down.
All my adult colubrids get brumated, including Hondrans, ratsnakes, rosy boas, rubbers, skinks...
All tropical boids, Haitians, brazilians, Solomons, Regius, Sand boas...are/were kept in the same room under the indentical conditions as I described above.
I don't feed the adulst sand boas very much if at all between Jan and March. They don't have much of an appetite with dips to 68 in the evenings...

Trevor, what you're doing isn't wrong, it's just more than is necessary.
However don't make the mistake of offering snakes warm spots when you're trying to condition them for breeding. They won't subject themselves to low temps if they have the choice , but then they probably wont reproduce either.

Some of the first captive reproductions of many Boids happened first in zoos, as the result of unintentional winter power failures...

[Scales Zoo]

This is a great discussion, excellent post guys!

Ryan

[Stockwell]

Glad you enjoyed it Ryan, but it's done! If I have to give away anymore of my old fashioned unconventional, opinionated, secrets, my price is going up!:)

[BoidKeeper]

lol
Thanks Roy! Just one note of clarification if you would.
"However don't make the mistake of offering snakes warm spots when you're trying to condition them for breeding."
Do you mean don't offer them warm spots at all during the cooling period? Three months with out a basking spot at all?
Thanks again,
Trevor

[Stockwell]

Heat kills sperm! There is no sense cooling them low then having them sunning there buns on a hot rock...
85F daytime ambient is plenty hot enough to keep the female feeding and that is all you're looking for during the breeding season
Once she ovulates and becomes gravid (March to May) then you'll want to have a 90F spot for her

[BoidKeeper]

Thanks Roy.
I was modeling my room after the Sutherlands set up. I bought Dr. Sewards Ball Breeding video with the Sutherlands and that's where I got all my temp info and natural day light cycles.

They do it like this;
Summer ambiant DTH 85 NTL 80
Summer basking spot DTH 95 NTL 85
Winter ambiant DTH 80 NTL 75
Winter Basking DTH 95 NTL 85
There basking spots are controlled by their photo cell. They have it hooked into their Helix. When the sun comes up there hot spots heat up to 95. When the sun goes down the photo cell tells the helix to lower the hot spot to 85.
As the year goes on the amount of time the snakes have to bask at 95 changes with the number of day light hours. The ambiant also changes by 5 degress as well.
And you thought my method was over kill.
When do you recomend people start cooling their Regius?
Cheers,
Trevor

[Scales Zoo]

I've talked to a few breeders that don't give their boas or pythons any "hot spot", when they are gravid - and just aim for a good higher ambient. Some create a heat gradient with heating the side of the enclosure.

The thinking is, that a snake could overheat a certain area of their body with contact heat, even one that only registers at 90 F. If you were incubating python eggs, you wouldn't want them to go over 90 - so even with boas, you wouldn't want the temperature of the developing babies to be able to get higher.

What it all boils down to in the end, do what works for you - If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Different methods can work for different people.

Here is one for anyone. Has anyone ever heard of any study's (private or published) regarding developing eggs producing heat because of protein changes when the baby snakes are forming?

Ryan