getting a beardie to eat pinkies..

[chamitch]

what i did was put a few crks in with my beardie to stimulate him a bit then as soon as he caught one i put the pinkie in front of his face and he just gulped it down aswell. prob most of u know this but i tried other ways and this was teh best. works instantly.

anyone else have a better methos or care to share??

later

[Dragon_Slave]

You shouldn't be feeding pinkies to your beardie to begin with.

Even day old pinkies have tiny bones that CANNOT be digested by bearded dragons. They can and will cause an impaction, even if you only feed them on occassion.

Steer clear of pinkies, it's just not healthy. Not to mention, pinkies are very fatty.

[chamitch]

perhaps impaction is possible but i haver never heard of anyone havign that problem. and even in older beardies in there latter years the fatty liver deseise is rare and they fed them more then on occasion. variety is good.

bearded dragons have a very acidic digestive system and this most surely will dissolve all teh bones.

i would like to hear about anyone who has actually had problems. most of the tiem its jsut speculation.

i am not feeding them often just to be safe. and will not feed them as soon as he gets older as it will make him fat.

[Dragon_Slave]

Yes, I am aware that bearded dragons have acidic stomach acids, but they are not powerful enough to ''dissolve all the bones''. Think about it... beardies get impacted from mealworms because of their chitin, if their 'oh so powerful' stomach acids can't dissolve something as thin as chitin, what makes you think it can dissolve BONE?

And even if it's just ''speculation''... better to be SAFE than SORRY. You can give your beardie ''variety'' in other ways, such as what fruits and veggies you feed them, or feeding crickets, silkworms, waxworms, butterworms, superworms(for adults)... that's PLENTY of variety. Why feed something that could potentially be unsafe and unhealthy? It just makes no sense at all.

[chamitch]

ok first of all u need to knwo a few things. chitin is very different from bone. its kind of liek cellulose in that acid doesnt dissolve it. thats why cows have 3 stomaches so they can digest it.(cellulose). baby mice have nto bone but cartalige which is even easier to digest. read a biology textbook and it will clear it up for u. :)

i think the only bad part from feedign to many pinkies is if they are getting fat. but as a small part in there diet it can be good. good source of calcium as well as other nutrients and calories.

btu teh point of this thread was on hwo to get them to eat pinkies not wether it is good or bad.

[Reptiles Galore]

hey,

Bearded dragons shouldn't have pinkies on a regular basis, but it doesnt hurt them if they have one every once in a while. soo i agree with chamitch!

Aaron

[Dragon_Slave]

Originally posted by chamitch
ok first of all u need to knwo a few things.

I know a few things... go on...

chitin is very different from bone. its kind of liek cellulose in that acid doesnt dissolve it. thats why cows have 3 stomaches so they can digest it.(cellulose).

Are we talking about cows or beardies? That's what I thought... you cannot possibly compare a big mammal such as a cow to a small bearded dragon.

baby mice have nto bone but cartalige which is even easier to digest. read a biology textbook and it will clear it up for u. :)

Thanks for that tidbit of useless information. Yes, pinkies DO have bones, although they are very SMALL, a buildup of them can cause impaction. I don't need to read a biology book to know this.

i think the only bad part from feedign to many pinkies is if they are getting fat. but as a small part in there diet it can be good. good source of calcium as well as other nutrients and calories.

Yes, we've already discussed the fact that pinkies are fatty.

btu teh point of this thread was on hwo to get them to eat pinkies not wether it is good or bad.

The point of the thread was dumb, to put it bluntly. Why are you encouraging people to feed pinkies when you know it could cause an impaction?

It is a PROVEN FACT that pinkies have bones, ask the Australian Bearded Dragon research group in AUSTRALIA. Yeah, the big guys... the one's who have been studying beardies for many, many years and know more than you ever will. They recently found that pinkies are unhealthy, unsafe and a BAD food item for bearded dragons. So throw away that Biology book of yours, it's probably outdated anyway, and try not to tax your brain too much, you might give yourself a migraine. Read the CURRENT stuff... take a look around, I'm sure you'll find that other sites are starting to agree, pinkies are bad!

Oh, and next time you want to sound smart... learn some spelling and grammar.

[chamitch]

ok u missed my point. cellulose in humans and beardies and other animals that are not especially addapted to digest it cant. i wanted to u to learn about chiten and other proteins and such and there digestability. u see mealworms actually eat bran which is essentially cellulose. they turn it into a even more indigestable material chitin.

i wanted u to read a textbook about chiten not that pinkies have bones.

no need to get worked up man. u just dont understand either due to my explanation or u just dotn want too.

go to highschool bio or chem and learn a thing or 2. and ill go to grammer school. hahaa. deal?

later

[Dragon_Slave]

Originally posted by chamitch
ok u missed my point. cellulose in humans and beardies and other animals that are not especially addapted to digest it cant. i wanted to u to learn about chiten and other proteins and such and there digestability. u see mealworms actually eat bran which is essentially cellulose. they turn it into a even more indigestable material chitin.

As I said before, you cannot possibly compare mammals to reptiles.

i wanted u to read a textbook about chiten not that pinkies have bones.

Why the hell do I need to read a freakin textbook about chitin? It's COMMON SENSE.

no need to get worked up man.

I'm a woman, thank you very much.

u just dont understand either due to my explanation or u just dotn want too.

I can't possibly understand someone who's ''explanations'' are incoherent. Not only that, but also the fact that you're points are idiotic and just plain... grrr!

go to highschool bio or chem and learn a thing or 2. and ill go to grammer school. hahaa. deal?

Why don't you go to a college and take COLLEGE courses on Biology and Zoology, like I have. So go ahead to grammar school, I am sure that you will have fun. And remember, literacy rates are growing now and you shouldn't be ashamed of learning how to spell. Have fun and let me know how things go! :)

[ChristinaM]

I am definately on the no pinky for beardie's side.
It has been debated time and time again.
Ultimately, the same answer has been concluded.
Mice are very hard for pogona to digest. Bottom line.
Digestion probs can cause impaction.
Impaction can cause death.

[ChristinaM]

btw, the above is

just my not so humble opinion.

[chamitch]

i hate when people kill treads like dragonslave.

u are only lieing to yourself.

thanks for the advice. and i cant belive someone who claims to have taken bio or zoology doesnt knwo about digestive systems and chitin. (even though it wasnt the point of the thread) sigh

later

[ChristinaM]

My method of feeding pinkies.

1. defrost pinky in a bowl at room temp
2. warm pinky up slightly (to resemble live food temp)
3. Grab pinky by the tail and wiggle it ( stimulating a live mouse)
4. Watch snake inhale it :)

http://www.linkd.net/~cmarvin/public/snake/snakemouse.jpg


oh *****, wrong thread :rolleyes:

Method of feeding pinkies to my beardies:

1. Don't.
2. It's not good for them.
3. Feed them some silkworms instead :)

Peace out.

[chamitch]

hahaa. i like that better then pickign apart my comments. i dont think there wonderful but there not that bad. and one every once in awhile is not bad just for shits. good boost of calcium and calories. and easier to get at least for me compared to silkies.

there is no end all be all for animals. or anything.
just knowing the effects and probs that can occur is teh key.

i just wanted to know how other peopel feed the pinkies. haha :)

later

[Dragon_Slave]

How do I kill threads? I was stating my opinion and supporting my arguement. You're an idiot, I'm going to leave it at that. And I pity the day where someone contacts you and blames you for the death of their dragon.

[QueenHerper]

Ok I have to agree with Haley on this one. He he he hello Haley funny finding you on here, I didnt know you were a member on this site. Anyway in recent studies by the Aussie herpotologists it has been proven that even day old pinks are not good beardies. As Haley has stated they do indeed have very tiny bones and cannot be digested by beardies. With continuous feeding of pinkies over time this can build up and cause impaction in your beardie. The best thing would be to not feed them since they are not healthy for your dragon. It is better safe than sorry when it comes to the health of your dragon.

sandy

[Dragon_Slave]

Haha, Sandy... nice seein ya on here. Thanks for the backup. :)

[ChristinaM]

I was backing you up too......just in a very sarcastic way :) that was taken nicely apparantly.

[Dragon_Slave]

Thanks, Chris... I forgot to thank you for the backup as well. :)

[Bighead]

All this dissension and bickering stresses me out. There have to be better ways to make one's point than backbiting like this.

[chamitch]

i would like to know where i can read about this study. i want to know how many and how often theyy were fed ect..

because it seems to me it would have to be alot as even undigested things pass through.

im not saying its a great thing or anything or even that anyone should do it. just want to play devils advicate because alot of studies make things sound different and more extreme then they are. (ex) monkey studies on marijuana use. they gave monkeys herioc doses and constant inhalation of marijuana smoke. then they said how bad it was. obviously not normal habitual dose.... not saying its good to smoke pot and the study was wrong, but just pointing out somtimes they take things to extreme to prove a point.

haah anyway whats the url?

[Soul_Reaper]

Originally posted by Dragon_Slave
How do I kill threads? I was stating my opinion and supporting my arguement. You're an idiot, I'm going to leave it at that. And I pity the day where someone contacts you and blames you for the death of their dragon.

Honestly...i pity the person who actually listens to any advice given by that guy. No actually...i pity the poor beardie's who'll suffer for the ultimatum of their stupidity.

At least you tried Dragon_Slave...but some people just won't listen.

*sigh*

[chamitch]

any one have teh aussie herp website?

also my point as not just feeding beardies pinkies but how to get them to eat other worms or anything. my beardie wouldnt eat silks for awhile untill i coxed him into eatign a few.

ive fed my beardie one pinkie in my life. i guess i should have mentioned that.

again someone please send me the aussie website with the study. i want to read it. if not for me then my beardie. haha

[Dragon_Slave]

Reaper, thanks a lot for the support.

And Chamitch.... I'm still searching for the link, I'll have it to you soon! Don't worry... I WILL prove you wrong.

And also, once again, the threads original purpose was to teach people how to kill their beardies, good goin!

[chamitch]

ok. haha. i never said it was good anytime. i am just saying the test could have been them feeding pinkies as a diet or majority of the diet.

u guys here pinkies and beardie in the same sentence and get all up tight.

anyway how do u guys get your beardies to eat somthing new?there usually pretty good but somtimes they wont. everthing except pinkies of course. ;)


and remember dotn drink atkins beer. your only cheatign yourself. haha

[Dragon_Slave]

You have just proved your own stupidity. Thanks!

[chamitch]

no need for name calling.

just get me the site so i can prove that the tests were faulted. and if not so be it ,but i am almost positive it was at least unrealistic.


hopfully one day people can talk about things decent. and not be like "your stupid" i mean come on get a life. sounds like a bush supporter. haha

[Dragon_Slave]

Let's not get into politics.

I can't believe you are even trying to match my intelligence, you might as well give up, you're only making yourself look dumber. I'm not saying that I know everything, but obviously I know a lot more than you. Even basic skills, such as grammar and spelling, seem to give you a hard time. Sheesh, when will you ever learn to listen to your elders? You have had 4 or more people in this thread say that you are wrong, why can't you just accept it? Do you have a hard time accepting the truth or something?

And I am not ''name calling''... I said ''You proved your own stupidity''... stupidity being the adjective, describing the noun, which in this case, is ''you''. Are ya still following? Ok... didn't think so. Name calling would be if I said ''You are stupid.''

And yes, you can show me somewhere in this thread where I did say you are an idiot, but in my last post, there was no name calling.

[DragnDrop]

It's getting a bit hot here, people. How about taking a break, cool off and try again?

Let's stick to the topic, and refrain from discussing each others' mental capacities, shall we? Differences of opinion are the beginnings of discoveries, so let's calm down and maybe we can all learn something new.

Peace :)

[norman]

I think it's awesome when people come on here to pontificate and try to make other people feel stupid. Chill out, let it go, the guy made a mistake, and is now trying to learn something by accepting your opinion gracefully. Have some class. Let him.

[manville]

come on guys get over it...it really isnt that big of a deal..

[norman]

No kidding.

[chamitch]

your telling me. haha.

i still would like to read the aussie herp studie though. everyone talks about it but i have yet to see the study.

thanks

[Dragon_Slave]

Have you tried taking your own time to search, chamitch? I mean, do you really expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter? If you want it so bad, look for it.

And YES, it IS a big deal. We are talking about the LIFE OF AN ANIMAL! I think we can consider that a big deal. You are crazy if you think otherwise. You guys just don't understand how important this topic really is.

[norman]

We totally understand that it's important. That's why people ask questions. To learn from people with more knowledge. This is a form of research. That is how people learn. Unless you were born with an innate and intimate knowledge of the digestive system of the bearded dragon? Otherwise, you learned from other people (Were they as rude to you?) Anyway, the guy learned, I'm sure he's grateful for the new information, so let it go.

[daver676]

Wow Dragon_Slave. Calm down a bit. Your "stupidity" comments and spelling and grammar observations were out of line. So he wants to feed is Beardie a pinkie. He'll be the one regreting it, not you. Chill out. :)

[Dragon_Slave]

Norman: It doesn't matter, he didn't learn a dang thing... obviously. He is still going to feed pinkies to his dragon, he's not going to listen. And I'm sorry I made an honest observation, but it's hard to comprehend his posts when they are so horribly written.

[chamitch]

i searched all of teh australian herp societys and didnt find a single bit on pinkies. just found melisa somthings care sheet(she has writen books prob heard of her) and she actually said it is better to feed mice(even hoppers) as worms and crks can cause empaction eaiser. i think thats crazy but obviously she has had experience with it. as it is one of the most detailed caresheets that i have read

here is the site http://www.ahs.org.au/

and here is the rest of the herp sites in aussie http://www.australianreptilesonline.com

also this link from the astralian herp society http://www.**************/australia/australia.htm and the couple caresheets i read on there even say u can feed pinkies. i find this all very strange and have a open mind. if anyone can shed some light on this just for curiousitys sake that woudl be awesome

i dunno. has anyone actually read that article or is it just a rumor? someone must have just might be so deep i cant find it.

peace.

[Dragon_Slave]

I have never read the article myself. I have friends online, however, who speak directly to members of the Australian Bearded Dragon Society. I will try to get you a link or some info that leads to it, but it's going to take me a little while to find it. I will ask my friends tonight and see what they can do.

Melissa Kaplan, yes. But when was her care sheet written? She may or may not have read the current information and had time to edit her care sheet. I'm sure that you will find lots of books and things that say it's ok, but they were most likely written BEFORE the current research, and when I say current I mean within the past year.

[Dark_Angel_25]

Do not take anything Melissa Kaplan says as any idication of wht you should do, there is a thread here somewhere about her, and it is NOT good her advise is SERIOUSLY outdated, and WRONG, but I digress... only one comment made in this whole thread bothered me, and it was this one made by Chamitch:

"there is no end all be all for animals. or anything.
just knowing the effects and probs that can occur is teh key."

well chamitch I have to say, you have been told numberous times about the effects and problems that can occur from feeding your beardie rodents, and yet you still insist on arguing that it is all hearsay. the bottom line is this: even if you feed your beardie a mouse a month, IT ALL BUILDS UP. so OVER TIME, it WILL cause damamge. Why "Play Devil's Advocate" as you stated? Why risk your animals health well being and possibly life over this? Is it really worth it?

Your beardie can't speak for itself, BUT if it COULD I am sure it would tell you that it isn't up to you to decide what is good for him, I think you should take all the advice given you, and STOP feeding pinkies to him. The risk outweights any benefits (if any).

This is just my opinion.

[drewlowe]

Originally posted by Dark_Angel_25
Do not take anything Melissa Kaplan says as any idication of wht you should do, there is a thread here somewhere about her, and it is NOT good her advise is SERIOUSLY outdated, and WRONG, but I digress...

I agree dark angel!!!
I hate when people link to her care sheets, or qoute them. Anybody with experince will tell you her most of her care sheets are completly misguiding (to put it nicely).

I'm going to approch this from another view point since the impactation thing isn't working. Adult beardies should be feed mostly salads!!!! Pinkies are HIGH in fat. If you continue to feed your beardies pinkies you run a good chance that they could develop fatty liver disease. Yeah true you won't see the results in a week or a month, but when they get older you will. We're not just talking about short picture here. Think about the overall health for the LIFE of your beardie.

As i said in the post about sand. It's OUR job as the owner to properly care for these animals!!!

Jamie

[drewlowe]

disregard this post.

[SerpentLust]

Jesus Dragon_Slave calm down, if you would read over the threads, he wanted info, you told him it was bad, after a nice debate, he just want information now and he's making an effort to search for it. Insulting his intelligence and his grammar was uncalled for. He won't learn a thing if he's being called out and degraded. There's a difference between educating and well, what just happened here. People are entitled to their opinions, now that he's heard opinions, I'm sure he'll think twice about feeding pinkies (if it's hazardous, which I have no idea of as I've never kept lizards)

I personally have NO opinion on the subject since I have never kept lizards of any kind. My snakes love mice though ;)

I just think this would have been a much better thread if there was more support and less bashing...

That's my $0.02

Jenn

[chamitch]

yea i relize that mellisa's care sheet is crazy. i even said that. as she suggested to even feed adult mice. thats nuts.

im tottaly not saying its good or people should do it.

just so u guys know i am not feeding my beardie pinkies. i tried it once and i foudn a way to feed beardies new foods. thats why i posted this thread

also i want people to actually read this study from australlia. most people havnt read it and just do what another people tell them.(just like now) they have no idea how it was conducted or anything. so as soon as someone finds it please post so everyone can read it.

oh and i have a question also. does anyone have information of the ph and structure of a beardies stomache?
and how come chitin from mealies and supers seem to pass right through and not accumulate over time?and calcium breaks down fairly readily in acid.but understand, pinkies are high in fat and alot of different proteins which could cause numerous other problems rather then impaction.

peace

[drewlowe]

Originally posted by chamitch


oh and i have a question also. does anyone have information of the ph and structure of a beardies stomache?
and how come chitin from mealies and supers seem to pass right through and not accumulate over time?and calcium breaks down fairly readily in acid.but understand, pinkies are high in fat and alot of different proteins which could cause numerous other problems rather then impaction.

peace

I do not EVER feed my beardies mealies. Chitlen does build up and can cause impactation in beardies. My beardies have never been fed a mealworm thier entire life, even though i breed them for my leos. I may sound like an overprotective mother, but i feel i'm obligated to give them the best care i can.

An adult beardie should not be getting that many insects to begin with. 80% of their diet should be salads/with 5% being fruits (non acidic). My beardies may get insects once or twice a month. Every insect i feed is well gutloaded (that's the best thing to do). I feed crickets, butterworms, silkworms, waxworms, and hornworms. Durning breeding season i will allow my female to eat extra butterworms because they are the insect with the most calcium and i have found it benifical to her, but my male doesn't get any extra because he doesn't need that extra calcium like she would.

Jamie

[Dragon_Slave]

Ok... I apologize for ''degrading'' chamitch. But it IS quite hard, as I've pointed out, to interpret what he's trying to say half the time. YOU may not have trouble understanding, but I sure do!

Chamitch, I respect that you are now trying to learn and that you are accepting our information. I should have thought twice about posting what I did, but I've been in a ''mood'' lately, and it doesn't allow me to really ''think'' about what I'm saying. I should have gotten my point across in a nicer way, and I'm sorry.

[chamitch]

no hard feelings. i have a gf who has moods as well. haha.

just lemme know when u fidn that site

[QueenHerper]

Ok as of right now i have asked the person that provided haley and i with this info if there is a site of this study and this is what she says " quote Ummm, I got that info from the Royal Herp Society of Australia....but from a member, not from a site." quote

"quote Their vets issued a flat out warning to stop feeding them....they kept turning up as the cause of dragons dying."quote

me "quote : so there is not really anything i can find on it on the web then? quote"

her "quote Might be Sandy. Let me try to contact our herper buddy in Oz, and see if she can direct to something. I know Dr. Maas warns everyone against doing it too...he goes to all the symposiums across the country for herp vets. It's a big item with them. quote"

so she will check into this and see if she can find something for me and when she does i will post it to you.

please do not feel like i was attacking you in anyway i was just stating my opinon. i can see where you coming from also. just cause ppl say it is bad but do not provide evidence to back it up makes it hard to believe. I know. We to have fed one our dragons 1 pinkie then we heard this stuff that it could be bad and will not feed them just for the fact that it COULD be dangerous. when i get some more info for you i will surely get it to you


sandy

[chamitch]

no stating your opinion is good, and not degrading at all. calling me reatarded or somthing is. hahah

peace

[Dragon_Slave]

Oh yeah, chamitch. ''No hard feelings''... and then you go an inadvertently talk about me... that's real mature. Of course, I called you an idiot, but at least what I said was the truth.....

[QueenHerper]

Ok Haley I like you alot and I dont want to insult you but please for crying out loud drop it. I dont think he was trying to insult you he was stating that he felt it degrading to be called names. He has obviously taken the advice given here into consideration and is willing to learn more about it. There is no need to continue with this arguement anymore. Im sorry but if you cannot let it go then maybe you should just skip over this post and not read it. That way you will not feel like you are being insulted by Chamitch.


Please dont be angry.
Sandy