Some sound advice needed, please.

[ruthupton]

Last Monday (22 Dec) I bought my first snake - a 12 month old female Royal Python. although I have had experience with handling snakes I have never owned one and this was recommended to me by my dad's friend who is a manager of an aquatics/reptile shop.

When I went to collect her, she was rolled up in a ball and the man put her in a sack. when I got her home and she uncurled, I noticed a 'lump' on her neck. I took her back and it was a tick, which the man duly removed and put her pack in the sack for me.

Got her home again - and that's when the fun began. I decided to fill her water bowl up a bit more - so she bit me. Not much, but it really woke me up. She just flew at me from across the case. I put it down to the pulling around she had just received.

Left her for a while, but noticed she was spending most of her time in the water - and when she was out, she was sitting on top of the water bowl, almost in a 'strike' position. Now, each time I go to open the case to give her fresh water, she comes towards me and takes the 'strike' postion. I have to wait until she goes under her log before I feel confident enough to go in. Yesterday I wasn't smart enough and she bit me again.

Now I see she has what looks like three more ticks on her. One one her side and two on the bottom of her eye.

I will not be able to speak to the aquatics manager until he comes back off his Christmas break but his assistant says this is not normal behaviour.

On top of all this, I put a mouse in for her last night but she did not touch it.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

[mykee]

Chances are she still has ticks/mites. RARELY can you remove one without there being hundreds hidden. She is in her water dish because she is trying to 1. Drown the mites/ticks, and 2. Ease her itching skin from the constant biting. The agressiveness is probably due to her uneasiness with both a new environment, and the fact that she is parasite-ridden. If you can get to the pharmacy and pick up a product called Nix, it's a human lice removal product, a cream. Pour half the bottle into 4 gallons of water and toss her in, let her swim around for 15 mins. or so and make sure she submerges her head, as most of the mites/ticks will be in the head region. Repeat two or three times of the course of a week. Dilute more Nix into an atomizer and spray down the enclosure from top to bottom. Do this multiple times over the course of a week or two also. use white paper towels as bedding, so that you can look for the m/t. Give her fresh water daily and look at the bottom of the bowl for bead mites/ticks. I'm sure if I missed anything, someone else will chime in and take over where I left off. Lastly, try rats, a 12 month old ball can easily be eating 100-150g rats. They are more nutritionally sound and better in the long run. Don't stress the eating. They eat when they want, and will most likely when the parasites are all gone. Good luck.

[foman]

I think you have been sold a wild caught BP(as ticks would not be a problem with a captive bred). Take Mykee's advice and it should be ok. also try some peroxide on the spots where the ticks were found, because the pack a ton of harmful bacteria.

[Andy_G]

Sounds like mites for sure. May have some ticks left over too. Mykee gave the right advice as always for ya! :)

[ruthupton]

Thank-you. There is nowhere open until Monaday but I will go to the local petshop and vets. If it turns out that I cannot get this product, I shall take her back to the place that I bought her and insist that they sort it out - pronto!

[sapphire_moon]

I would just return her :( I'm sorry to say that. I would get one from a breeder that gurantee's no parasites and no icky things. There are to many Captive breed Bp's to be buying a wc. That could be another reason she is so testy, never been handled by humans and all of a sudden she's jerked from the huge africa to a tiny little 40 gal breeder (smaller or bigger?) and stuffed there, expected to be happy!

And if I'm wrong I'm sure mykee will correct me! lol :)

Good luck with her, remember it is usually more expensive to own a WC than a CB. Because of all the vet trips!

[ruthupton]

I was told that she was home-bred and the person I had her off is very reliable normally. Having said that, his supplier could be telling him rubbish.

Would the fact that she could be ready to shed make much of a difference to her temperament and the amount of time she spends in the water?

[jfmoore]

Sorry you’re having such a trying time with your first snake. Sounds like you have two basic problems right now, and I’m not counting the not feeding as a problem. – there’s the external parasites and the biting. You know it has ticks. If you find any more of those, you remove them the same way you’d remove them from your own skin, with tweezers. Those are fairly self-limiting. Just remove them and they shouldn’t recur. Mites are another issue, however, and you need to determine if your snake has those. Mites are another external parasite which suck the snake’s blood, can cause anemia and can spread disease. If the snake has been spending as much time in the water bowl as you say and has mites, you should definitely be able to find drowned mites in the water bowl. The adult mites which have had blood meals are the largest and will look like poppy seeds. If you see these on the snake or in the cage and you crush one with a finger, you will have no doubt because you’ll get a smear of blood when you do that.

So, why don’t you first find out for sure if your snake has mites before you worry about treating them. Check in the water bowl. Check on the snake, paying particular attention to around the eyes and in that groove in the skin that runs along the midline of the lower jaw. Afraid of being bitten right now? Just put some gloves one if you need to. Your python will be less likely to bite a gloved hand, anyway, since it won’t register as being as hot as your bare hand. Yes, an occasional ball python is and will always be a biter, but not often. And your snake definitely hasn’t had a chance to settle in yet. So don’t give up hope in that regard. And, yes, it is possible that your snake is soaking because it is getting ready to shed, but you have to rule out mites.

If you want advice on what to feed it, help us out with some indication of its size. Not that we have any reason to doubt the word of the pet shop person that it is 12 months old. LOL. If you can measure the length (like with a piece of string) or the weight (kitchen scale?), that would be far more meaningful to us than its supposed age. Good luck.

-Joan

[mykee]

LOL! Sapphire, I'll let bygones be bygones when it comes to Africa/WC/aquariums vs rubbermaid sizes/CB, we'll never see eye to eye. After all, it is the Holiday Season......You just wait till the New Year though....then you're gonna get it.

[Stockwell]

I'm in agreement with the other posts.
I strongly suspect you have a Togo import.
Thousands of them come into the pet trade every year, and they land at about 8 bucks, so many petstores don't buy captive bred ones, because they wont be getting them at anywhere near that price and there isn't really much volume of captive produced Regius( especially in the UK)
Regius with ticks, that bite, are usually tramatized recent imports, that will take months to sort out, but it is usually doable.
And yes, I've had them with both those characteristic too...biting and ticks..
Wild caught Regius don't come from Africa with mites, only ticks which are less of a problem as they reproduce more slowly.
Soaking is definately a symtom of ectoparasites which could be ticks, mites or both.
If it has mites they were picked up in the store.
When Regius strike repeatedly out of fear, they will not usually eat. This is common with larger wild caughts, but is extremely rare in captive produced specimens.
Snakes like this need to be set up in hot dark cages with tight hides, and then left alone, for weeks or months. I used to use rubberboots in the 80's. They love to cram into a tight spot. But you might go months without seeing it, and I once had one go 2 years before it ate but they usually click in sooner, in a matter of weeks.
This doesn't sound like a very good first snake for you.
Unless the source of ticks on your snake can be explained ,you should consider it to be a wildcaught. You might consider seeking another specimen.

[sapphire_moon]

I'm sure we won't. But I do respect your opinions on Bp care seeing as (apparently) you seem to be a trusted and respected breeder. But seeing as how I'm not going to breed, then size of enclosure is really no big deal......lol. I don't know what you mean by the W.C thing? I don't agree with that either!

Oh happy holidays to you to! :)

[ruthupton]

A big thank-you to everyone who has replied. You are all so helpful.

Right, to answer a few questions.

She curled under her log this morning and I was able to change her water. There is nothing resembling mites in it at all. Looking at her closely, she has what looks like two ticks on her eye and three or four on her body.

She is very active, slithering around the tank and sitting 'waiting' by the door, ready for anything that dares to go in. LOL She also spends quite a lot of time stretched out. So, looking at her, I would say she is roughly 2 feet long and looks a healthy size.

The assistant manager from the store rang me back this morning to see if she/I were both okay. He has told me to leave her alone until tomorrow and he will sort it.


I am now considering a different sort of snake. Perhaps a cornsnake would be a better one.

My one problem you see, is that I have a child who is autistic. He loves snakes and is very good at handling them but he saw her bite me and it has really scared him.

[ruthupton]

BTW, I see that Sapphire has this in her sig - what does it mean, please?

<i>1.1.0 Royal Pythons </i>

[Dani33]

1.1.0
male.female. sex unknown
The number is for the amount of animals that they have and their sex.

[ruthupton]

Thanks, Danielle. I had a feeling it was something to do with that, but wasn't sure.

Just now, Sable (snakie) was climbing around and I spotted two browny-red patches on her underneath. Like you get with blood under caloused skin on your hands or feet. They are two and three inches down from her throat.

Duh?

[djnzlab]

HI,
As with many WC animals ticks and mites can be the least of your worries. Your snake may be loaded with internal parsites.
I would also be concerned about any petstore who sells wild caught animals as first time snakes.
Many of the mites and ticks can spread numerous different disseases around all the animals in the store even the captive bred Corn snakes..

doug

ps the cage the snake was in may have parasites from that snake after you remove it and get your replacement....
:eek:

[sapphire_moon]

The brown red patchs might be scale rot, higher the heat (about 96-97) and it should come off with the shed, if it isn't to bad. If it is real bad then take her to the vet and get something for it. Also change the paper ( I think you said you had her on paper towels if so great) If she is a yearling and only 2 ft that sounds like she is a little smaller than she should be. My yearling male bp was about 2.5-3ft when he was a year old. Corns are great begginer snakes, it would probably be best if you took back your questionable snake and get your money back and put it towards a good CB corn baby.........good luck!

[ruthupton]

Saphhire, she is on shavings. Well, when she comes out she is. At the moment she is still in her water.

Just out of curiosity, is there much difference between the temperaments of males and females?

I saw a nice corn snake yesterday. Well, I think it is a cornsnake. It was black and white - about a foot long. Would that be a good option?

[sapphire_moon]

Not if you don't know what it is. Get anything from a good breeder that knows their stuff. Just ask around on this web site someone may be able to direct you to a breeder close to you.


If you think she has mites, put her on white paper towl or newsprint so you can see mites not only in the water but on the paper to.

If you still want a python go get a started cb bp from a good reputable breeder. But corns are tons more forgiving in the husbandry department than BP's. And require less space.
A black and white snake? I'm not sure you would have to post a pic (or find one on the web that looks like it) for anyone to tell if it was a corn.

I want to say NEVER get any animal from a pet shop, but not all pet shops are bad, so to be on the safe side I always say just go to a breeder.......

Don't get it if you don't know what it is, don't get it if the person don't know what it is.
Ask to see it eat, if it don't eat/it's not feeding time, come back when it is.
check for little black moving specs around the eyes, nose, vent and belly scales.
Make sure no scales have come off or are bent,
Make sure no bubbles coming from nose or mouth,
no bad sheds still left over,
Make sure the enclsure it is in is clean, no fecal/urate matter, or sheds left in there.
Ask to handle it make sure it has good muscle tone/ and a firm grip when wrapped around your hand/fingers

And if it is a breeder you got it from they will give you a health gurantee for I think a week, but you have to ask, each breeder is different. Get it vet checked, fecal done on it so if there is any problems you can get it returened..........

if there is anything I missed or anything thats wrong I'm sure that someone will correct me/fill in the space.

[sapphire_moon]

Oh also what kind of shavings is she on?

[ruthupton]

To answer your second post first - they are a kind of wood shaving, pale brown. It just says 'wood shaving reptile bedding' on the poly bag that it came in.

<i>Don't get it if you don't know what it is, don't get it if the person don't know what it is.</i>
Labelled Royal Python and definitely looks like the one in my info book.
<i>

Ask to see it eat, if it don't eat/it's not feeding time, come back when it is. </i>
They always feed at night at the store so not an option.<i>


check for little black moving specs around the eyes, nose, vent and belly scales. </i>
she is clear - nothing black or moving.<i>


Make sure no scales have come off or are bent, </i>
No scales off or bent but enlarged 'red' ones which I would say are the ticks<i>


Make sure no bubbles coming from nose or mouth, </i> Everything okay there<i>


no bad sheds still left over, </i>
Okay there<i>


Make sure the enclsure it is in is clean, no fecal/urate matter, or sheds left in there. </i>
Her enclosure at the shop was very clean.<i>


Ask to handle it make sure it has good muscle tone/ and a firm grip when wrapped around your hand/fingers</i>
I handled her at the shop a couple of times and everything seemed great. It was only after the man removed the first tick that she became aggressive.

Understandable, though.

[ruthupton]

To answer your second post first - they are a kind of wood shaving, pale brown. It just says 'wood shaving reptile bedding' on the poly bag that it came in.

<i>Don't get it if you don't know what it is, don't get it if the person don't know what it is.</i>
Labelled Royal Python and definitely looks like the one in my info book.
<i>

Ask to see it eat, if it don't eat/it's not feeding time, come back when it is. </i>
They always feed at night at the store so not an option.<i>


check for little black moving specs around the eyes, nose, vent and belly scales. </i>
she is clear - nothing black or moving.<i>


Make sure no scales have come off or are bent, </i>
No scales off or bent but enlarged 'red' ones which I would say are the ticks<i>


Make sure no bubbles coming from nose or mouth, </i>

Everything okay there<i>


no bad sheds still left over, </i>
Okay there<i>


Make sure the enclsure it is in is clean, no fecal/urate matter, or sheds left in there. </i>
Her enclosure at the shop was very clean.<i>


Ask to handle it make sure it has good muscle tone/ and a firm grip when wrapped around your hand/fingers</i>
I handled her at the shop a couple of times and everything seemed great. It was only after the man removed the first tick that she became aggressive.

Understandable, though.

[ruthupton]

To answer your second post first - they are a kind of wood shaving, pale brown. It just says 'wood shaving reptile bedding' on the poly bag that it came in.

<i>Don't get it if you don't know what it is, don't get it if the person don't know what it is.</i>
Labelled Royal Python and definitely looks like the one in my info book.
<i>

Ask to see it eat, if it don't eat/it's not feeding time, come back when it is. </i>
They always feed at night at the store so not an option.<i>


check for little black moving specs around the eyes, nose, vent and belly scales. </i>
she is clear - nothing black or moving.<i>


Make sure no scales have come off or are bent, </i>
No scales off or bent but enlarged 'red' ones which I would say are the ticks<i>


Make sure no bubbles coming from nose or mouth, </i>

Everything okay there<i>


no bad sheds still left over, </i>
Okay there<i>


Make sure the enclsure it is in is clean, no fecal/urate matter, or sheds left in there. </i>
Her enclosure at the shop was very clean.<i>


Ask to handle it make sure it has good muscle tone/ and a firm grip when wrapped around your hand/fingers</i>
I handled her at the shop a couple of times and everything seemed great. It was only after the man removed the first tick that she became aggressive.

Understandable, though.

[sapphire_moon]

Tripple post!

It should say what kind of shavings it is, if it is any kind of softwood (cedar, pine, and I THINK *not sure* fir) then don't use it, it has phenols on it (the thing that makes it smell woodsy) that can make the snake sick. Especially cedar. It is always an option to see them eat.

They can take you and her to a back room make it dark, they should be able to accomadate you if they are really that interested in selling the animal......

I was talking about the black and white snake. If you nor the person selling it don't know what it is then don't buy it!

Also if you are going to keep her and she is still really bitey, you might want to invest in a snake hook to get her out and get those ticks out, they could have bad problems. Take and get a fecal done asap.....just to make sure she is in good health.
All those questions I asked are somewhere in "The Ball Python Manual" I don't remember the author though.

Goodluck, and I hope all goes well! :)

[ruthupton]

Gawd - didn't notice the triple post. Sorry. I'm on broadband but these pages still take ages to load.

Okay, to update.

I took her back. She has got ticks and mites. Two white ticks on her eyes, one on her side, and two 'red' ones on her lower body. She also has some patches which look like scale rot on her underneath.

When I emptied her water bowl I noticed some very tiny black things 'swimming' around.

Anyway, i have swapped her for the black and white snake which turned out to be a Californian Kingsnake - striped desert phase.

So... I guess it's off to lokk at the other forum now. LOL

Anyway, a big thank-you to everyone who has posted here. I really appreciate you support and advice.

Regards,

Ruth