Dog food? cat food? or Mazurri whats the difference?

[northernsnake]

I"ve bin raisng my own rats and mice for years I feed them dog food cat food left over people food. All my rat are very healthy they have piles of babys and they grow very big. Well this summer a breeder told me to feed Mazutrri or lab chow. He told me that dog food and cat food were know good that my rats would grow bigger and faster if I switched. So I gave it a try. I whent through two large bages and you know there was a big diferance! The price! that rat feed is so expensive it's joke! Dog food has worked fine for me for twenty years so I think I'll stay with it why fix something thats not broke!

[BoAddict]

well i beg to differ i find mazuri is like steroids for rats and the price difference is about $8 a bag however your also getting more mazuri per bag than you do per bag of cat or dog food.

the growth rate in young rats is the most noticable it does slow as the rats get bigger but they are still bigger in my opinion, feeding dog food or what ever it seems to take forever to grow to larger sizes its almost like they just keep eating with no growth.

im gonna give you the analogy that i was given "would you feed fish food to your cat" if the answer is NO then why would you do it to your rats.

[northernsnake]

Originally posted by BoAddict
well i beg to differ i find mazuri is like steroids for rats and the price difference is about $8 a bag however your also getting more mazuri per bag than you do per bag of cat or dog food.

the growth rate in young rats is the most noticable it does slow as the rats get bigger but they are still bigger in my opinion, feeding dog food or what ever it seems to take forever to grow to larger sizes its almost like they just keep eating with no growth.

im gonna give you the analogy that i was given "would you feed fish food to your cat" if the answer is NO then why would you do it to your rats. Actually we have a pond full of gold fish and koi and yep they get cat food to. :D

[morph]

I'll give you an anology would you feed mainstay dogfood to your dog. I sure as hell wouldn't it's grain based perfect for rats and mice bad for dogs. The nutritional breakdown on it matches mazuri and an 18kg bag is 12$, 10$ on sale a hell of alot cheaper than mazuri.

Scott

[BoAddict]

1 bag of mazuri is $21.85 after tax i think 50 pounds
1 18 kg bag of dog food after tax is $14 and change so again $8 difference and 18
kg is roughly 40 pounds so you get 10 pounds less for saving $8

just remember its not about the rats but the snake that is gonna eat that rat

[Stockwell]

It may not be a huge deal with rats, and you're not the only breeder using dog chow because it's cheaper.
One concern is fat content and dog and cat food is generally very high in fat. Mazuri comes in a rodent 6F and 9F which is the fat content.Mouse breeders usually use only 6F.
The 9F costs more than the 6F and is really too fatty for producing feeder rodents. We need to remember that these lab chows are made for maximum production of rodents for scientific research, not to be fed off to snakes.
With colubrid snakes, obesity and egg binding is a huge problem and this is directly related to diet of the rodents fed to the snakes.
Typically mice are fed to colubrids, so I feel its more important to feed mice the proper diet. Mice also don't reproduce as well on a cat or dog food diet.
Rats are fed mostly to large Boids that are less adversely effected by fatty meals.
Heh, if you're getting a good yeild, and you're not concerned about an obesity problem in the herps that eat them, then....stay the course.

[morph]

It has the same nutritional breakdown as mazuri and the cheapest quote I could get for mazuri when I started breeding was like 50$ cause it is special order. Nobody carries that stuff out here.

Scott

[northernsnake]

Originally posted by BoAddict
1 bag of mazuri is $21.85 after tax i think 50 pounds
1 18 kg bag of dog food after tax is $14 and change so again $8 difference and 18
kg is roughly 40 pounds so you get 10 pounds less for saving $8

just remember its not about the rats but the snake that is gonna eat that rat The feed that I tryed was called lab chow from Lincoln feed & farm supply ltd. It was $35.00 if mazuri 21.85 and is like steroids lol Ill give it a try.I thought that mazuri and lab chow were the same thing. Where can I get it in St. catharines Ill give it a chance:rolleyes:

[mice4you]

Well said Roy. The other problem with dog food is the protein. Most cheap dog foods are 22% protein min. Normal rodent blocks are 16-18% protein min.

We use one that we had made for us with 18% protein and 8% fat. This is only given to our breeders due to their need for a higher caloric intake.

Our weanlings are fed a diet with a lower fat content to ensure a healthy and steady growth

[northernsnake]

Originally posted by mice4you
Well said Roy. The other problem with dog food is the protein. Most cheap dog foods are 22% protein min. Normal rodent blocks are 16-18% protein min.

We use one that we had made for us with 18% protein and 8% fat. This is only given to our breeders due to their need for a higher caloric intake.

Our weanlings are fed a diet with a lower fat content to ensure a healthy and steady growth where can I get some of this feed

[reverendsterlin]

I'll stick with Teklad 2018 lab blocks for $30 a bag, spendy but it winds up in my snakes and I go the extra expense for them not the rodent.

[jadegrasse]

I talk to a lot of breeders who sell large numbers of frozen rodents to pet stores and the public. Un-officially NONE use lab chow. I breed about 1000 rodents a month on a good month. I used to purchase Mez. Lab chow in large quantities but I no longer feed just lab chow. All my rodents get kitchen scraps from 3 local suppliers, dog food and all pregnant feeding mothers get calcium and fat supplements from a local butcher. I purchase good quality chow (not the cheapest crap I can find) based on the content by the pallet at about $9.00 for 18kg bag delivered after tax. I use approximately 4 bags a week when I am not supplementing heavily and 2 when I am.

The main problem with obesity in snakes is the quantity of food and not the fat content of the food. I only know of one other breeder who does not over feed his snakes and who has great success. This year I got 100% success from all my rat snake (9 batches of eggs from the rat snakes) from laying to hatching with one batch of eggs giving over 100% success when twins were born. Not very many people can say the same.

[Stockwell]

Ontario guys, most of us get our chows from Rens Feeds on trafalgar rd. in Oakville.(rensfeeds.com)
I just stocked up for the winter on Muzuri 6F.
I have the invoice right in front of me.
I pay $19.10 per 50 lb bag.
That's a damn decent price I think.
I used to use Purina/Richmond standard 5015 mouse
and it's up around 35 bucks a bag.... I wont pay that much unless I'm really stuck

And Alain, I partially agree, but fat snakes are the result of overfeeding, plus fat feeder rodents, but most of all....
Lack of exercise... Snakes cramped into rubbermaids, in commercial breeding facilites especially colubrids, have the biggest percentage of complications.
I have recently been discussing this with Dr. Phil and several other colleagues.
Eventually breeders will realize that colubrids need more room and excercise than we currently give them. .... I'm working on a new colubrid
"hamster wheel" right now LOL
Boids are less at risk from obesity problems brought on by small quarters because it's their nature to sit and ambush...this is not true for colubrids, that would normally be on the move almost constantly.. Up, down, and around...

[Doug & Deb]

Hi, This is the Feeder FArm and we use the lab food from Ren's Feed. We also use a high quality high protien dog food for the nursing mothers only as this helps with their milk supply. Once the babies are to hopper size we use only the rodent blocks. The blocks supply your feeders with the vitamins and minerals they need to gut load the rodent for your reptile. When you feed scraps and junk the rodent is getting fat and does not supply your reptile with all the nutrition it needs. Think about it garbage in garbage out. Does anyone gutload their crickets??????It's the same concept.

[mykee]

Exactly, garbage in, garbage out. I feed Mazuri, love it and would recommend it. Others feed dog feed, love it and recommend it. Try 'em both, watch your rats and make an educated decision for yourself.

[Linds]

I used to use Mazuri. Now I just use Ol' Roy dog food. I actually have had better results on the dog food, even though its values nearly math Mazuri's :/

[morph]

hey Linds I am just wondering which ol roy you use as I think there is like 3 qaulities or flavours. I see it's goin on boxing week blow oput at wal mart for like 10$.

Thanks in advance
Scott

[marisa]

I am with Linds. I use a dog food that has almost EXACT nutriontional info as mazuri, and has the exact same fat and protien content.

The biggest issue with dog food is not all dog foods are alike. While my dog food has literally the exact same makeup as Mazuri, a lot of dog foods are FAR FAR from this. You really need to read up on their labels. Try copying down Mazuri info from the web, then bring it with you to the pet store/market and check out all the brands of dog food. Just choose the one thats closest, and the one which doesnt contain red dye. You want the normal brown looking food.

Anyways there are like two different brands near me with the same nutrional list as Mazuri...literally, almost 100% exactly the same.

The sick part is, this is what some people feed their dogs! :(
Marisa

[reptile boi]

ok, so what should i use? Im planning on breeding mice again sometime soon as i am getting 1.1 cornsnakes and will need some for my spiders and such. Email me if you can help out.





Thanks,
Ben

[mykee]

Marisa, I am with you 100% on your last comment. This is great that we're all doing our research as to what food is best for our feeders, but it's true, many people that I know will feed their dog whatever is either available, or cheapest. I only wish that more dog owners did this type of research, OR asked their vet (one who isn't being payed by a dog food company to peddle their wares) what is best. Sorry for the rant.

[marisa]

Yep. It's sick that food acceptable to feed rodents is actually geared towards dog owners. *sigh*

Marisa

[northernsnake]

OK now I'm confused you had me sold on the mazuri and now were going back to dog food. maybe I'll go with both lol !:confused:

[marisa]

If you want the Mazuri, get it. All some of us are saying is that the brand of dog food we use has the exact same ingredients as the Mazuri so we just buy the dog food. Meaning it is most likely 100% exactly the same nutritrionally for the mice.

Marisa

[mice4you]

Originally posted by northernsnake
where can I get some of this feed

We may make ours available sometime in the new year. We bring it in by the truck load from the company that manufactures it for us. I will let you know if we do. The big problem is that it is a bulky product with a low profit margin.

[Linds]

I would use the regular kind (red bag, $12), but the chunks are too small and fall through the mesh, so I use the Bits and Bones (yellow bag) for a few dollars more ($15).

[Jayson]

I use mazuri with all my rodents. My question is if O'roy is so simalar to mazuri then WHY is it sooo.. Greasy?

Its true that alot of the ingediants are the same but some are very diffrent.

As to weather to feed it to your dog? dogs do need to consume alot of roughage in their diet as well as meat. When dogs eat whole prey items this includes stomack content as well, also dogs do eat grasses and other grains.

[Linds]

It is similar in nutritional values, not necessarily similar in all the ingredients. Rodents and dogs are both omnivorous in nature, dogs eating more meat, so the low quality dog foods work out great for rats. LOL... although all dry dog/cat foods are somewhat greasy, I'm surprised Ol' Roy is... there is almost NO animal products in there :eek: I have to agree with Marisa's comment "The sick part is, this is what some people feed their dogs!".

[C.m.pyrrhus]

Ol' Roy is horrible dog food. I would personally never feed it to any dog. I see dogs daily that are on that as their diet, sad sad sad....
On the other hand, it is what I use for my rats, the 'red bag' premium formula. I used a 'better' brand for a bit, but heck. The price is damn good, not to bad of a nutritional content and my rats are pretty healthly as far as I am concerned. They rarely touch grains, so they only get them a couple times a week added to their food. Sometimes I throw in table scraps and veggies that may be going bad in a few days, but mostly it is the dog food. Never tried Mazuri, as I personally feel the output you get does not meet the price comparison. Otherwise, to each their own.

[mykee]

Pyrrhus, if the price is your only concern, let me assure you that you can pick up a "REAL" 50 lb. bag for under $20. Hardly seems bank-busting.

[C.m.pyrrhus]

Thats my point in a nutshell...why pay more, for nothing??? Seems pretty goofy to me. Whats wrong saving some bucks? Feel like your doing a better job by simply paying more in the end? I just do not see how paying less is worse. But then again, to each thier own.

[Lisa]

we use super c dogfood. $8 a bag, same ingreadient and nutrition list as mazuri until you get down to near the end. it's not greasy like good dog food. I wouldn't feed it to a dog though. makes nice rats though. We tried mainstay and our rats and mice did worse on that then super c. they got all greasy and not as big.

[BoAddict]

lisa where do you buy this dog food? what color is the bag and how big are the bags?

[jadegrasse]

The kitchen scraps I get is mostly greens, grain and root vegtables. I feed a mixture now of good dog food, lab chow and low fat kitchen scraps. No garbage in. The only time I add some fat to the diet is with nursing or expecting mothers and then only in small amounts.

Alain

[northernsnake]

Originally posted by jadegrasse
I talk to a lot of breeders who sell large numbers of frozen rodents to pet stores and the public. Un-officially NONE use lab chow. I breed about 1000 rodents a month on a good month. I used to purchase Mez. Lab chow in large quantities but I no longer feed just lab chow. All my rodents get kitchen scraps from 3 local suppliers, dog food and all pregnant feeding mothers get calcium and fat supplements from a local butcher. I purchase good quality chow (not the cheapest crap I can find) based on the content by the pallet at about $9.00 for 18kg bag delivered after tax. I use approximately 4 bags a week when I am not supplementing heavily and 2 when I am.

The main problem with obesity in snakes is the quantity of food and not the fat content of the food. I only know of one other breeder who does not over feed his snakes and who has great success. This year I got 100% success from all my rat snake (9 batches of eggs from the rat snakes) from laying to hatching with one batch of eggs giving over 100% success when twins were born. Not very many people can say the same. I think I'm with you Ill try my local butcher and go with old Roy thanks.:D

[jadegrasse]

A safe bet is always quality and variaty. The largest test done on dog health by the American vet sociaty found that dogs that ate dog food as well as scraps lived longer and healthier lives then those fed just dog food (any type!). They also lived longer and healthier lives then those fed just scraps.

[Lisa]

Bo addict, we get it from super c, a local supermarket. it's a white bag, i was wrong on the price, it's about $10.