law on keeping native herps..

[Nicky]

hey everyone,
I was wondering is it illegal to keep native herps to ontairo and if so can you get a permate and is it ok if there captive breed?
thx
rock on kayla

[KristenM]

Hey,

Its illigal to collect any herps from the wild and keep them. And the majority of herps most of the snakes, turtles, the only lizard we have, and most of the amphibians have to have permits in order for you to keep them. And usually the permits DON'T permit you to breed them! If you want to know more call your local mnr office. What did you want to keep? maybe I could tell you what you need to keep it!

Kristen

[Nicky]

I would love to get a mink frog or a lepoard or maybe a bullfrog i was just wondering if i qould needa permit and how to get one
or could if i get them captive breed by someone in the staes would that be ok.

[sevenofthorns]

MNR doesn't care about where they're coming from if they're protected. So CB from the US still requires you to have a permit. You need a permit to own it and another permit if you wish to breed them.

I'm unsure about those species you listed, but a good site to find out at is http://www.carcnet.ca/english/legal/legalON.html. It could be out of date, so be sure to contact the MNR as Kristen recommended.

The permit application is rather time consuming, so if you really wish to get one be prepared for a several month wait and many phone calls.

[Stockwell]

why not just keep a tropical species. Many are available through the pet trade, and there is no hassle owning or breeding them.
Whites treefrogs, Red eyed treefrogs, African bullfrogs, various hornfrogs, even albino ones etc etc. There are quite a few interesting and beautiful tropical frogs, all avaiable.

[Linds]

Jeff is the guy to go to for these kind of questions. Here is one of his many posts on the topic of native species in Ontario...

Originally posted by Jeff Hathaway

The exceptions to the general rule of it being illegal to collect/possess native reptiles and amphibians (not bats, fish, etc.) are as follows:

1) If you have an authorization to do so. If you need to ask, you don't have it. You probably wouldn't get one even if you wanted it.

2) Game species (snappers & bullfrogs) with a valid fishing license. If you're under 18 or 65+ you don't need a fishing license.

3) Again with a valid fishing license, up to 12 leopard frogs and 1 of any other non-specially protected/ non-game frog (i.e. not gray treefrog, Blanchard's cricket frog, Fowler's Toad, Bullfrog).

4) Collecting non-specially protected and non-game species (garter, brown, red-bellied, ribbon, ringneck) if you have a valid small game hunting license, or if you a farmer (under the MNR defintion, which means you REALLY HAVE TO BE A FARMER) on your own land. Possessing these species is okay for anyone as long as it was acquired in the above manner or purchased legally from such a source. This is where the CB red-sided garters come in! Please note that there is some consideration being given to extend SP status to all of the remaining unprotected snake species in Ontario, so this situation may change.

5) Anyone is allowed to possess ONE SPECIMEN (not one of each, etc.) of a specially protected or game reptile or amphibian, but this exception does not allow such a specimen to be collected from the wild. Also, this exception was recently amended to exclude any species listed as Vulnerable, Threatened or Endangered by the MNR, such as skinks, fox snakes, hognoses, massasaugas, spotted turtles, etc.

Interpretation of these rules varies somewhat between districts and between people. Always better to err on the safe side.

As for the original question, there are a lot of rare and protected species to be found in the Parry Sound area. Watch your step!

Also, in my opinion, if one was going to collect a garter, or a leopard frog, or some other common species, it would be better to collect it from a location where the population is likely to be healthier (i.e. not close to urban areas where there is a lot of pressure on them).

However, in my opinion, regardless of laws the only reasons to collect wild specimens are for research, for educational programs, or for experienced breeders who plan to start producing captive bred specimens. Wild animals should not be collected haphazardly to be kept as pets, nor should they be collected for sale. Where justified, it should be done in a manner that is the least disruptive to a population (i.e. eggs or juveniles instead of adults, especially for turtles).

And finally, most of the Ontario species, especially the unprotected ones, are not really that great in captivity. I should know, as I have most of them for our educational programs. There are so many better choices out there without having to remove something from the wild. Please don't...

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[KristenM]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think that minks require permits, I dont think that leopards do, and I'm not sure about Bull's. But Lindsay is right, Jeff is the best person to talk to since hes been through it. It can be really time consuming as Lindsay said, like months to years. And I would agree with stockwell that getting tropical species of frogs would be a better idea! Bullfrogs dont always make the best pets for everyone, they eat anything they can get in their mouths including fingers, and require A LOT of space. It all depends on what you are looking for.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do
Kristen

[Nicky]

ok thx i'll pm him

[Jeff Hathaway]

Hi guys!

Just surfing around to some forums I don't read often, and came across this. Thanks for the quote, Linds! Nice to see people reducing my workload:-)

Nicky, if you have a fishing license (or if you're under 18), mink frogs (one only) and leopard frogs (up to 12) do not require a authorization to keep. Nor would a single bullfrog, as long as you capture it legally (in season (where one exists), with a fishing license).

I would discourage you from trying minks. They aren't easy to find in most of Ontario, and are not easy to keep alive. I've tried. I'll probably try again this year with a better set up. The best I've been able to do so far is about a year, which I don't consider a success.

Bullfrogs are easy, but as Kristen says, they do need a lot of space, and they bite readily and hard. We have 3 in a 90 gallon tank. We've had them for 4-6 years, which I would consider successful. Out of all of our enclosures, there is none that I open and reach into with more trepidation than the bullfrogs! They will leap from one end to the top of the other to latch onto your hand. Jenny's worst bite one year (definitely in the top 5) was from one of the smaller males.

Leopards, on the other hand, are common, easy to keep, colourful, and require no permits. If you're really interested in keeping a native frog, I'd go with one or two of these. They are caught by the thousands for the bait industry, so you could rescue a few from a bait shop, though you won't hurt anything by collecting a couple either.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!