Attitude of herpers

[Vanan]

I just have to vent a lil so bear with me. What I just saw today was a sad scene. This is regarding the recently closed thread.

What I saw was misinformed individual who had a different sense of reasoning and I saw people who should have been informative, slap him in the face and asking him to snap out of it. What happened to common decency and the camraderie amongst fellow herpers. If someone acts stupid show em the right way. Just wanted to say that I was very disappointed in the outcome of that post. We could have harboured and taught this individual something good but instead we jumped down his throat. Very sad.

[Dozer]

Thank you Vanan. I'm 100% behind you :) But then again, some of his posts were out of reason as well...

Mike

[asphyxia]

.I actually agreed with the content of the thread.

peace out
Brian

[Invictus]

Sometimes unreason draws more unreason. It's sad. It's even more sad that it's sometimes necessary to get a point accross.

[Siretsap]

Well you told us he was not a troll meaning he would do it. So even after 20 posts telling him he shouln't do it, he still acted dumb continuing to try to find someone who would teach him certain things, even if he was the posts on the regulations of his town and the impact that would be given on the snakes he would try to keep meanwhile to "practice". In my book, you do not practice on vulnerable snakes.

[Vanan]

he still acted dumb continuing to try to find someone who would teach him certain things,

So you're saying that it is wrong in mentoring with an experience hot keeper? Was what he was trying to do really wrong? Maybe he should have asked about how to keep hots FIRST but he did still say he wanted to learn.

As for using a "vulnerable" snake, it was recommended to him by someone. He didn't just come up with it.

If it sounds like I'm on his side, in a way, yes! I'd much rather stay close and follow along and make sure nothing goes wrong than just shun him and leave him to his own devices. We all know that would be detrimental.

I did not wish to get into any further arguement but just wanted to bring up the above points.

Besides, one of the reasons I have disrespect for some hot keepers is that they don't practise what they preach. Quick to prevent anyone else from keeping hots but what makes em special that only THEY can. This is not a personal attack on any particular hot keeper or hot keepers in general. Just some of the stupid ones I've come across.

[Siretsap]

I couln't care less if he kept hots, in fact I am pretty sure he would get good at it too. It was the way he said he wanted to get to keep hots. I feel the same way you do about hot keepers. But just the way he brought all this didn't sound like he would do the right things. So better prevent than deal with consequences. He didn't listen to what most of the people told him, only took 1 or 2 replys to waht he tought they meant.

[Dozer]

Vanan states it simply in his other post... when someone posts an uneducated question, it must be answered with education, not an uneducated low answer ( stated some other way, but I'm jsut to lazy to check :p ). It was childs play and it could have been avoided.

[reverendsterlin]

I don't think any decent hot keeper would have responded to him, I know no good ones would have helped him. 'Most' hot keepers I know have standards too high to just take on someone to train, a person that showed dedication (just in asking repeatedly and not going ahead) would find the person they were working would eventually give in. However someone that comes along wanting to milk hots, keep hots, self-immunize, and doesn't have a clue to any of it gets the cold hard facts and shoulder real quick.

[SerpentLust]

Personally, I feel that although the responses were a bit rude. They were just seriously, at first, trying to give him so REAL advice. And I found that he didn't like the advice given and started up with idle threats and non constructive posts. Personally, when I ask a question, and I do it alot. I make sure to take ALL responses and seriously consider them, if there's a response I don't like (which is rare because I like staying civil) I simply ask for clarification, or I don't respond to it. That's all he had to do and that's all everyone else had to do, was just stop posting. But oh well, it's over and done with now...

Jenn

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by Vanan
As for using a "vulnerable" snake, it was recommended to him by someone. He didn't just come up with it.
I think I should interject here, because I believe this specific misunderstanding to be my doing; however, I didn't use the word "vulnerable."
This is a common recommendation for someone who is interested in working with hots and it makes a lot of sense. Working with a spastic colubrid will give you an idea that you can never really be in complete control of the situation but you can work towards tipping the scales in your favour.
When I suggested mock-milking, I certainly did not intend for him to cause the snake any undue abuse, rather, he should attempt to gently and carefully retrieve and restrain the snake and act as if he was in the process of performing an extraction (that is, trying to handle the snake without being bitten). The scenario is mainly to teach the prospective keeper the dangers of routine maintenance as well as proper restrainment with a snake that is likely to strike. Imagine taking all the precautions and doing everything correctly and getting tagged by the harmless snake, usually that is all that is required to convince the keeper that maybe it isn't a good idea to replace that harmless colubrid with a lethal serpent.
Cheers,
R

[Wuntu Menny]

I believe I'm familiar with the post in question, and I have to say I was torn between two possible responses. Either aggressively encourage the person not to post any similar requests, or calmly return to another forum and keep my reaction to myself. I opted for the latter, but I'm still sitting here a little stunned.

I didn't catch any responses or followups, but if the descriptions are accurate, I know the type. I do try to respond initially by educating, but when those suggestions are rejected in hostile tones I tend to respond likewise.

WM

[C.m.pyrrhus]

I went back and read up on the last 4 pages of that thread. The first few pages, to me, were respectable enough and helpful enough for a common person to understand and catch the drift. After a while, it seemed to me that the thread starter was just not wanting to understand and not realizing the seriousness of what folks had to say. Honestly, no matter what that as out of our hands as people to help him out.

A few folks did seem to get haist, but was also after some very disturbing comments made by that person. As for a couple TOS rules over stepped, I saw nothing all that wrong. A person will only take in what they want, and to me it seemed 99% just.

I used to be in Muay Thai, if anyone knows what that is. I went to Fairtex for a while, and the instructors there were very hard on us as students. To me it creates a bit of urgency to respond as serious or not. That is what I saw go on there. Either take it or leave it. No one HAS to be nice...to me that invites folks to remain in a state of stupor. "It is OK for me to be dumb, as I see folks are just OK with me that way." Heck no. Wise up or take the heat. For a staement though, we did start off as respectable and trying to pass our suggestions. After a while it was just a way to say hey, "You are not intelligent enough to do this"...and I whole-heartedly agree.

[Lisa]

I don't know if the attitude is bad or not (I will admit there is some elitism in the community), but when people give good advice and some one ignores it and can't be bothered to do their own research to verify the advice given and gets upset with the advice given and starts making threats (idle or otherwise) you can expect the attitude towards the person to be a little short...

Here's a perfect example. remember snakemann87? he would ask advice and ignore it and actually end up putting his pets in danger.

[AlexPan]

Hey guys. Sorry about some things i said yesturday i got kinda carried off. I did not meen anything bad what i said and will take that pic off my site. The only thing i would like to say is every 1 tought me something there and that is every one will try to poot me down or in youre case sugjest not to get it untill i'l have atlest 10 years of experiance, but if i will sill continiu then i'l know that thats what i really wana do in my life. Thanks again every 1 enjoy youre day :)

[BoidKeeper]

The point I was trying to make was that unless you move you will never be able to have more than 2 hot snakes. You did not leave me with the impression that you were familiar with your towns bylaws. When I quoted them you asked me to explain them to you. I did not find that to be very comfortating. If you are unable to understand your town's bylaws how will you be able to educate yourself enough to become a capable hot keeper?
Trevor

[Vanan]

It's probably best not to stir things up again Trevor. Wasn't the intention of my post. :) We all could do with a lil less stress today. :D

[Soul_Reaper]

I think that in the beginning everyone was being very informative, no one was stabbing anyone. Then it all got rowdy when Alex refused to take anyone's advice, anyways i think that there's no further need to debate on this.

It's good to see you apologize Alex. Please understand that those people including myself weren't trying to knock you down, the intent was to make you aware of the situation and to prevent yourself and the hobby from getting hurt. Just try to be a little more open minded next time you ask for help,

And while i'm at this, i would like to apologize as well. I know i got a little carried away, i'm sorry if i offended you or anyone else.

I say we just forget about all this.

[Invictus]

Amen brotha.

[BoidKeeper]

Was not my intention.
Present sittuation excluded, you're right we do need to work on our approach when it comes to educating people. I'm a teacher and I've never been able to get a student to understand a concept by attacking them.
Cheers,
Trevor

[gonesnakee]

Alls I can say is that even the people that treated him with respect were treated as they didn't IMHO. To reply in reguards to the other post I do not hate you Alex, never said I did & never disrespected you on open forum, you on the other hand did not extend the same common courtesy to me. I took a lighthearted politically correct approach to the whole misuse of images thing when I contacted you privately only to be scorned & then moreso even on open forum. The attitude you presented when faced with constructive criticism was extremely negative, as was some of the others that should have been trying to help you. You however fail to lisen to what people say & have a habit of repeating yourself. Example being having contacted me 3 different occasssions for the same answers about the same snakes & also involving others at the other end of the country to waste their & my time again with the same questions that had already been answered 3 times over. The whole FU attitude doesn't fly with me & your hotheadedness has already seriously affected your rep in the herp world. We all need to relax when it comes to opinions that are different than ours as every one has its own valid points. Anyhow Alex good luck & don't get in over your head. In the future consider the outcomes of your reactions a little more seriously. And to all those who like to ridicule & scorn based on spelling, grammer, etc. not everyone in the whole world grew up schooled in fluent english. Canada is a bilingual multinational country ya all. Its the people that assume that every one here is english & start bashing that look like the fools to me. Ya know what they say about the word assume. Mark I.
P.S. Vanan, I do agree with you, but not nessicarily in this case. Katt can show you all the things I said to him privately & everyone in the world can see the rest. Bridge is still burned here.

[Vanan]

P.S. Vanan, I do agree with you, but not nessicarily in this case. Katt can show you all the things I said to him privately & everyone in the world can see the rest. Bridge is still burned here.

hehe, no worries man! It's your private scuffle. I'll stay out of it. Not forming impressions or judging anyone cept the vast majority. :)

[gonesnakee]

No worries here either mate, I just wanted to "show off" to you how well I "held my tounge" LOL Mark
P.S. trying to be politically correct sucks LOL

[Vanan]

Wooo! I'm impressed Mark! :D