I will Pay U to show me how to Prob...

[AlexPan]

Hi every 1. I'm looking for a specialist who can show me some or all of the following things hands on.... How to prob a Banded Cal King snake, and teach me how to milk venamous snakes cause thats what i wanted to do for ever. So if you can teach me those thing i will be greatfull just name ur price cause i have looked every where and i just think there are not enaph people who wana learn how to milk venamous snakes and there for no cources on it. And i do realize that its EXTREMLEY dangerous but i'm willing to take that chance. I live in Canada BC Burnaby.
If any 1 have any information on where i can lern how to milk snakes preferably no too far with in my area plz let me know.
Thank you for youre time.

[Darren179]

my grammar is just as bad but, I dont think they are going to show a 17 year old who has im guessing not much experience with snakes how to milk em. I could see the probing but not the milking

[anders_240sx]

I dont know much about milking ...however ..making anti-venom is very easy .. and primitive ...GOOD LUCK

[AlexPan]

Well i have kept King snakes for over 6 years so i think that should stand for something? Besides the way i see it, its the art of knowing what the snake gona do next before it does it, there for in my opinion the sooner a person starts learning these things the better besides weather i'm 17 or 30 with little expiriance of snakes i do not think it makes mutch difference. Besides i'm just trying to make it easyer on me but if i do not find any 1 who is willing to help me which by the way will help millions of people who need antyvenom, then i will still get a medium venamous snake and do it by my selph if i have to.

[Removed_2815]

A couple reasons why this will not work out for you (regarding venom extraction):
a) Venom extractors understand all the inherent dangers of venom extraction and have coupled this understanding with years of experience,
b) With this experience has come responsibility,
c) A responsible venom extractor is not going to teach a 17 year old a craft that is life-threatening.

Also, what do you plan on doing with the extracted venom? Unless you have some roaming equines to inject it into and a means to collect the antibodies and synthesize your own antivenin you will have no need for this knowledge.
I don't think private labs will purchase it off of a "credential-less" individual, and more to the point, I don't think there is much of a market in Canada (serpent envenomation causing death has yet to reach epidemic proportions in Canada).
This post just makes me extremely nervous (coming on a public forum and offering money to have someone show you how to milk a venomous animal as your first step in the learning process).
I do not wish to dissuade you from this very subtle science (and exact art), however, I believe you may be going about it the wrong way.
Continue trying to learn about this as much as you can; read books, go to school and develop a reason to justify your "need".
Maybe incorporate some nasty colubrids into your collection and work with them daily and perform mock-milking practices while trying to avoid being bitten (and every time you are bit, make a mental not (better yet, a physical note) that you may have been killed had the animal been venomous). I think this may be your best teacher, as paying someone to show you isn't going to teach you anything more than watching Jim Harrison do it on RealTV.
Good luck to you.

Cheers,
Ryan

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by AlexPan
Well i have kept King snakes for over 6 years so i think that should stand for something?
In this scenario, that really doesn't mean anything....

[Grant vg]

Good post Ryan!

[gonesnakee]

Mark reads orginal post & just shakes head. Reads Ryans post & starts nodding. 2nd Grant on a fair honest reply & good advice. Mark I.

[snakehunter]

hey, get ahold of a four foot nerodia sipideon, those are nonvenomous, andi would be dead right now if they were. they are one of THE meanest snakes ive ever had the pleasure of encountering. GOOD LUCK!
-jacob

[Jeff Hathaway]

Why does everyone bad mouth Nerodia sipedon? While some wild specimens will bite initially, not all of them do- it depends a lot on how you catch them. And even those specimens typically stop biting (frequently, anyway) after they have been in captivity for a while. I currently have 1 WC adult and 8 CB juveniles (yes, with permit), and not one of them has EVER bitten me.

Back to the original subject- excellent post, Ryan!

Alex, if you really want to spend (expend?) your life milking venomous snakes, you'll have to move to another country. We don't even produce antivenin for our native rattlesnakes here. You can't just milk a snake in your basement and UPS the venom to a lab.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[chas*e]

Probe a snake ...read a book
Milk a snake........Why...watch TV

[Lisa]

Probing a snake is no big deal... I'd show you for free if you were local. Milking a snake is dangerous to you and stressful on the snake. Why put the snake through this if you are just wasting the venom? You want a thrill? Go out bungee jumping or something like that.

[AlexPan]

Thanks guys for all youre helpfull help but i have ti dissagree with some of youre points... in jeneral u say that why to extract vanom from a snake if i'm not gona use it?.. well firstable i do not recall saying i did not wana use it, also first i think i'l need to learn how to milk snakes before i'l even need to know how to make untivenom. How big does that "four foot nerodia sipideon snake" grow? Plass you guys must not forget that befor starting milking snakes there is 1 step which make it a lot safer which is, Get a monthly dose of extremly small proportions of venom in youre blood system so that youre body will have a strong immune system if you do get bitten, and increase the dose little by little in time.
"Chas*e" u said "watch TV" well, by the time i will get all of the specific info from TV i'l be like 90years old lolz.
Can you guys describe how to prob a snake in step by step including the size of a "stick" cause i looked every where and cant seem to find any 1 who can show me who lives in my area?
As for mouving to another country thats a little steep cause i can just ship the untivenom.
Thanks all.

[SerpentLust]

I'm not even dignifying the Milking thing with a response. Halfly because I don't keep venomous and halfly because, like Lisa said, it's stressful for the snake and I try to not stress my snakes.

As for probing, from what I've heard, I would just read a step by step and try it on your own, I would personally find an experienced prober and have them teach you. You can really damage a snake if you do it wrong, I would hate to make all my snakes infertile.

Jenn

[Grant vg]

Alex,

Get over it while your still breathing.
You sound like your fiending for experience and knowledge.
So tackle the little stuff first...

For example, run a search on Nerodia sipedon and find out about them.
then run a search on probing snakes and you might just come up with what your looking for, and you might learn that that "stick" is actually called a "probe". and that the size of the probe all depends on the size of the snake and ventral opening...

if you cant find anything on google, ill send you a great link.
But no herpetologist or scientist ever got through things without researching for himself.

when you were a child, did you jump into the deep end before learning how to swim? probably not....
So why would you want to do it with something that can potentially kill you.

do you even own a venemous book?

[C.m.pyrrhus]

If you want to learn how to probe, it is an OK thing to learn. Aint a bad idea to learn on some DOR if you have the chance, or have a qualified person show ya. You should be able to tell just by looking what your king is though, as most colubrids are to darn easy to tell by looking.

As for the milking, I only see that as nessesary if your working in labratory environment or in some research/conservation study. No need to dose yourself with venom to build up immunities, especially as it seems your not all that experienced in keeping hots. Frankly only a few folks do it, and they still have physical problems from it. They are as well folks that are around MANY venomous snakes a day, and only do it out of their own thoeries on venom. Seriously it just seems silly you would want to follow that route. If your planning on keeping hots, I would push the idea of safety and experience over what you seem to think it is all about.

[AlexPan]

No i do not own a venomous book, and i'm verry buissy warking, school, and my snakes so i got no time to serch. Thats why i asked you guys to help me.

[Lisa]

Originally posted by Grant vg
Alex,
when you were a child, did you jump into the deep end before learning how to swim? probably not....
So why would you want to do it with something that can potentially kill you.



heh heh. I did. didn't realize that you had to learn how to swim first.

AlexPan: you shouldn't play with venom until you learn how to spell it and antivenom.

As for making antivenom do you have any idea how it's made and what technology is involved? You talk about self envenomating, do you have any idea what the risks are? Have you even consulted a doctor on your plans to self envenomate? I also suggest consulting a shrink in your case.

No responsible hot keeper will give you access to their snakes for the purpose of envenomating yourself, it's just too risky for the hobby. If you want to self envenomate buy your self a snake and go from there on your own but first make your will out leaving all your valubles to me.

[AlexPan]

Look guys all i want it to lern the proces of milking by it selph. It does not matter if i'l ever gona use venom which i actually do, in making untivenom. I got no lab nor nothing but a person have to start some where and i will get that four foot nerodia sipideon but after i will, i still need some 1 to show me how to milk snakes.

[jim mcallister]

This info gonna lead to a lawsuit!! :) :)

[C.m.pyrrhus]

No i do not own a venomous book, and i'm verry buissy warking, school, and my snakes so i got no time to serch. Thats why i asked you guys to help me.

See fella, that is where we are coming from. Not to bruise your ego, but dude.....

It takes a LOT of time, energy, careful planning, safety precautions and smarts to even care for ONE venomous snake. If you have not even one of these, it is a grave mistake to take up venomous collecting. Also, you need time to study. It took me many years to understand even one species of interest.

I can only work with native snakes here in AZ. I have been dealing with them a lot growing up, so I got a 'head start' naturally, but still did not seriously collect untill recently. I have been rescueing and removing and dealing with snakes in the wild for years. It was not something I could ever learn buy paying for a few 'classes' to cram as though I was studying for a math test. DUDE...when we say it is serious, we mean it is serious. You really and trully should take the time to read books, study natural history on species and fully understand everything and anything related to the subject. We come off hard on you because we do understand what takes place. You just need to understand that. Seriosly concider finding the time, or honestly loose the idea of ever getting that far into collecting.

[KristenM]

What reason have you given anyone to help teach you to milk venmous snakes? First off owning a cal king for 6 year and thinking you can jump into milking hots is the equivalent of me saying I owned a cat so I will jump into a pit of tigers. Its ridiculous! Second as Jeff already said there is no need for it in Canada. Third, since your 17 I'm guessing you live with your parents, have you asked them about brining venmous snakes into THEIR house? Fourth lets just say no one helps you and you ignore all this GOOD advice, and you get a venmous animal. If you dont have time to reseach or read about snakes milking etc. how are you going to have time to care for these animals let alone TRY and milk them?

I find your post disturbing, and you are an accident waiting to happen! Think about it, cal king then on to venmous does that sound even the least bit logical? You indangering yourself and if you dont realize that, then this is a lost cause.

Kristen

[AlexPan]

HEHE!! thats funny Lisa :) . Who or what is a shrink? I did not consulted a doctor for self envenomation but, if i did i think he would think i'm a terroris or something lolz but i probably will ask him. I have no idea how the antivenom is made but, if you do can u give me a slite idea plz? And yes i do realize of all the risks i would be taking in milking snakes but i'm willing to take then in return i'm gona get experiance.

[AlexPan]

Well KristenM as i said before, i can always send antivenom to another countries. Yes i do live with my parents but i have a FULL promission of keeping snakes IF i know how it all warks and what to do in an imergancy. Like i said i will get my selph that four foot nerodia sipideon to get me started and only after i am intending on getting a venomous snake.

[Grant vg]

you've been on this site for atleast 1/2 an hour today....
it only takes 20 seconds to type in probing/sexing snakes and have a gazillion pages pop up, same goes for any search.

Perhaps we lost you a few posts back, but i have the feeling we never had you from the get-go.

and a little bit of advice...
most ppl on this site are very receptive towards young kids wanting to expand there knowledge on different topics concerning reptiles....however, you must approach it with atleast 5% common sense for us to take you somewhat serious...

So far, your in and around a -10% with me.
Go read through the hundreds of posts in the venemous forum, for starters.....
then feel free to ask the same question there that you have asked here....
believe me...were being angels compared to those monsters!! LOL

[AlexPan]

Well i just checked in Yahoo and Google serch for a "nerodia sipideon" and if found NONE. Is this the wright spelling or is there an alternative name for this snake?

[C.m.pyrrhus]

Heres your info:
]Nerodia (http://srs.embl-heidelberg.de:8000/srs5bin/cgi-bin/wgetz?-e+[REPTILIA-Species:'Nerodia_SP_sipedon')

Also, for basic info on relatively every species of herp...go here (where the link above is from).
The EMBL Database (http://www.embl-heidelberg.de/~uetz/LivingReptiles.html)

[KristenM]

First off you never answered my first question why should anyone teach you, you have minimal snake experience. Did your parents say that venmous snakes were included? Just because you are going to get yourself a water snake, doesnt mean you wll be prepared at all! They dont hook well , and they dont have very big teeth compared to some of the fangs of other venomous snake species. And if you dont know anything about venomous snakes how do you know what to do in an emergency? Maybe it will only be when you are bit that you realize what you have gotten yourself into. You also didn;t answer my question about having time for the animals. What countries are going to buy homemade anti-venom from a 17 year old?

[ReptileHQ]

nerodia sipedon

[Scotty Allen]

Good Grief!

[Grant vg]

Nerodia sipedon

[Big Mike]

Why do you want venom anyway? No lab is going to buy it from you and you will not be able to make anti-venom on your own.

If you really are serious about this...move to Africa or some other place where there are lots of people being bitten by venomous snakes and there is a need to make anti-venom. If you "can't" go some place where milking is usefull...then you are not serious enough about doing it.

If you are so eager to weed yourself out of the gene pool...don't do it in a way that could cause a danger to other people.

[UpscaleBoas]

Originally posted by AlexPan
Plass you guys must not forget that befor starting milking snakes there is 1 step which make it a lot safer which is, Get a monthly dose of extremly small proportions of venom in youre blood system so that youre body will have a strong immune system if you do get bitten, and increase the dose little by little in time.


where are you getting the venum from first?
who will administer it?
at what dose?
who's idea is this?
have you spoken to your doctor about this?
have you spoken to your parents about this?

think you need to slow down... as for probing..look through the search botton here and there is lots of info....
have you been keeping these snakes all this time without any bredding projects?

[AlexPan]

HEHE u guys giving me lots of quistions lolz. Actually thats a very good quistion UpscaleBoas "where are you getting the venum from first?" i did not think about that 1 and have no idea YET. I'm not sure at what dose but there is always time to find out
KristanM I do have time for animals but i just do not like serching for stuff i'd rather ask helpfull people like you. And yes venmous snakes were included.
Guys i see you again starting talking about mouving to another countryes... like i alredy sayd 2 time that i can always ship the antivenom out.

[Dark_Angel_25]

nad again I will state WHO would EVER buy their ANTIVENOM from a 17 year old Kid? you aren't even legal yet!
I think it is nice that you want to 'expand your horizons' but for a kid who is 17, you don't seem to want to hear what most if not all of the people who replied are saying.

- You are dreaming in technicolor. None of what you said makes any sense, and whatever you think you can do (ship out anti venom to other countries etc..) you aren't tinking realistically.

Just for fun, why don't you try and see if you can FIND anyone who WOULD buy from you first, before you go and endanger your life for nothing. I bet you don't find ANYONE who would use you as a supplier....

Think about it some more, and tell your parents you are thinking along the lines of LEATHAL snakes and see if they agree with you then, I bet the don't...

I just think you have to much growing up to do to be wanting to get into something so serious. Don't get me wrong, this is my opinion, I am not trying to 'bash' you, but maybe you should concentrate more on your education and LIFE than wanting to go down a road that could end it with one simple stupid mistake....

JMO

[Jeff Hathaway]

Helpful people like us tend to be more interested in helping those who help themselves. If you can't spare 2 minutes to try a web search, than why should we be wasting our time on this???

However, I will waste another couple of minutes.

1) Nerodia sipedon- common water snake. Native to Canada in Ontario and Quebec and illegal to collect in both. You might be able to convince a BC pet shop to import a US specimen. They're all WC, cost about $10, and are almost always in terrible condition. Most die within six months without a lot of care. There are better choices out there for 'nasty, bite you whenever they get a chance' snakes.

2) To make antivenin (and this is a gross oversimplification)- first, invest a big pile of money in a horse or sheep farm. In southern BC, I'd guess you need at least $400000 but that's just a guess. Then put another ~$200000 into a lab and the equipment needed to a) milk the snakes in a sterile environment, b) process the horse/sheep blood plasma to get the anti-bodies. Then, get some snakes, milk them, inject the venom into the horses, and wait a little while. Do this in accordance with all animal care guidelines. Eventually extract and process some blood as required. Then, seek FDA approval in the US (and get Canadian approval too, but since we have less than a dozen bites annually, you'll need access to the US market). I'd ballpark the FDA approval process at ~$200000 and several years. If you start now, by the time you're 30 you may just be able to start selling antivenin, and you can start paying off the million dollar plus (those horses have to be fed, you know) loans you've somehow managed to obtain. This assumes that you're still alive- if the snakes haven't killed you the horses probably will:-)

Smarten up, and stop bothering us about this. I hate to be a dreamkiller, but you're beginning to annoy me, and that takes some doing!

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[KristenM]

Finally, Thanks for that post Jeff!!!! Very well put! I know your not the only one that thinks this is annoying! ;)

[Soul_Reaper]

Kid seriously, just give it up. Expand your collection and read a few books first, maybe in a couple of years when you grow out of that dreamy state of mind of yours you'll be experienced enough to handle hots and even then, like many people here have already said: There is no point in milking snakes by yourself and trying to sell the antivenom, SPECIALLY if you live in freakin' Canada!

Everyone is being very patient with you, but you are clearly too stubborn to take any of the advices given kindly, this is gonna turn out into a big discussion. You are an accident waiting to happen, just give it up and take the logical steps, just like everyone else.

[snakehunter]

i feel for you man.........well kinda. i think you have caught the herp bug so to speak. when you get one it leads to an obsession, and you want them all.

there is a reason why we are trying to get you to pace yourself. one is for your sake and wellbeing. the second is for ours, what kind of name do tou think we would get if we told you how to do all the life risking things to a 17 year old, AND online. its a tragedy waiting to happen

[Scotty Allen]

*LMAO* bout' time.

[Lisa]

I dunno, if it weren't for the liability issues I'm all for giving the kid an adult king cobra and a jar. I think BW has dealt with the perfect speciman for this case... Oh ya, of course the room would be snake proof and alexpan proof.

[AlexPan]

Hey guys do not say that i do not lisen to your suggjestions cause i do. I will first get a very agressive snake and practice with it but i just like to take it slow cause, when i'm gona get the venamous snake weather it will be in 2 years or more, i'm gona be prepared fisycally by then but i want to know as much info as possible. Thanks for all youre help guys ;)

[Big Mike]

If this is a troll...well done. It sure got us going.

[Invictus]

I honestly hope this is a trolling incident, because I dread to think that someone this freakin' stupid is entering the herp community. I guess we can just kiss all of our herps goodbye after AlexPan gets himself killed by a hot, and his parents go on a crusade to ban ALL snakes.

AlexPan, assuming you're not a troll and you actually are as stupid as you are portraying yourself here, you SERIOUSLY need to WAKE THE HELL UP. You think in 2 years you're going to be ready for a venomous snake? You're going to be DEAD in 2 years from a sakebite if that's what you think. No venomous snake owner in the world is going to teach you how to milk venomous snakes, so just give it up. And if someone ever sells you one of these snakes, I want to know who it is so I can get them shut down permanently.

[BoidKeeper]

Tell me AlexPan, are you aware of your province's and town's laws? I think you may be surprised. Before you start asking how to milk snakes why don't you find out if you are actually allowed to have them first.
Let me know what you find out.
Trevor

[AlexPan]

Firstable Invictus DON'T U EVER DARE TO SPEACK TO ME THIS WAY AS I WERE A 5 YEAR OLD BOY!!!!!!!! yOU BETTER CHANGE YOURE WAYS OR ALS I'L HAVE TO TAKE EXTREAM MESURES!! Obviously we are very different people and obviously you have no idea what kind of person i am! So unless you got something good and usfull to say plz STF! I really hate people like you discouraging others! Just know this... in 2 years when i'm gona be milking snakes you will be the first on my first list of the people who did not believe in me.

BoidKeeper I am well aware of the laws in Canada BC and it clearly stater that ANY anymal which is not native in this region is illigal. Following this i will not answer any more quistions relating laws in Canada.

[BoidKeeper]

On second thought, her let me show what's on the town of Burnaby's web site.

This is from the Bylaws section found here: City of Burnaby Bylaws (http://burnaby.ihostez.com/contentengine/bookmark.asp?u=67656E6572616C&s=4275726E616279&p=67656E6572616C&d=343734)

"
(3) No owner or occupier of a dwelling unit shall harbour or keep or allow to be kept in the dwelling unit more than two poisonous or venomous animals, and every poisonous or venomous animal shall be kept in a secure container whenever it is outside the dwelling unit.

(4) No owner or occupier of a dwelling unit shall harbour or keep or allow to be kept in the dwelling unit more than two snakes and, if the snakes are fed live rodents, no more than four rodents shall be kept in the dwelling unit at any time."

Hope this helps,
Trevor

[Lisa]

Originally posted by Invictus
And if someone ever sells you one of these snakes, I want to know who it is so I can get them shut down permanently.

What? you wouldn't just let father darwin do his work?

[daver676]

Incorrectly probing a snake can seriously injury the snake. As for wanting to learn how to milk a venomous snake just because.......well.......:rolleyes:

[KristenM]

What does "EXTREME MEASURES" mean exactely? if someone says soemthing that you dont like, you threaten them?!
Thats real mature! Good for you!

[daver676]

Originally posted by AlexPan
DON'T U EVER DARE TO SPEACK TO ME THIS WAY AS I WERE A 5 YEAR OLD BOY!!!!!!!! yOU BETTER CHANGE YOURE WAYS OR ALS I'L HAVE TO TAKE EXTREAM MESURES!!

OMG LOL! Extreme measures?!?!? You'd better watch out Invictus! ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!

[ohh_kristina]

:p :p people are humorously ridiculous.

[Simon]

.......this is getting no where...

Alex,
it is very nice that you want to learn a lot of things. About probing and milking. Probing is easy. There are lots of herps in BC that can help you with that. If you don't want to do a little search on probing. That's fine. Get an experienced person to show you.

But for milking. It's not something easy. It hurts the animal, it has a very high potential of killing you, and there is no need for it. You are starting in a good deed. You want to make antivenoum and do good to the society. That's good. But first of all if you want to do a good deed, reconsider and rethink. Think of what all of us herpers (or snake keepers) would be in if you were realy to be killed by a venomous snake? You'll be on the news everywhere! The government is not going have a clue on what a king snake's different from a venomous snake. So instead of researching they band all the herps in the society. That way it's going to affect all of us. So infact you're not doing us any good at all.

As a lot of people have asked you already.
Do you already have a person or organization that is willing to take the venom off you once you milked it? If not what are you going to do with the venom? Just leave it there and be proud of yourself?

Also getting a very aggressive snake and training like that is one thing. It might prepare you physically. But I tell you...it will not prepare you in any way mentally. You'll know that the snake is not venomous. Getting a bite from it will not kill you. You'll mentally not treat it the way that you treat a venomous snake. So basically there is no way that it will prepare you in getting a very agressive snake. Maybe getting a 30 feet snake that is very agressive might help....(j/k...don't do it...as I have stated before...you'll affect all of us here)

So just rethink of everything.
Do tons of research
Think of what snake you want to work with (every species is different) so we react to them differently too. ie...the way you treat a western hognose (well...venomous..lol) and a black mamba is somewhat quite different...I hope...

Just do tons of research, listen to what some of us tells you (you're here to learn right...we're not bashing you!), and RETHINK of what you're doing and what might happen to the society and your life. You're parents might let you keep snake but they might not have the knowledge in what you're keeping is venomous and can kill you...even worse...if the snake gets out...can kill them and the neighbour....just rethink...for the sake of all of us!

[Dozer]

Eh,

This arguement will go on forever and ever if people start puttin' their views. This is almost an opinion based arguement. Personally, I do not think there is more of an 'experienced' based time limit before you can purchase any snake. Like, by sayin', oh, you have 2 years experience honestly means ****. A person can have a month experience with handling snakes and be compared to one of you, which in some cases 10 years, and the guy with one month experience can be more prepared, some people are more skilled than others and things come more easily. Sure, a lot of research must go into anythin' before its done, but dont hate on the guy.

Just my two cents.

Mike

[AlexPan]

Ya KristenM some times we have to threaten others inorder to teach them somethin.

BoidKeeper I did not really understand what do u meen by saying ..."No owner or occupier of a dwelling unit shall harbour or keep or allow to be kept in the dwelling unit more than two snakes and, if the snakes are fed live rodents, no more than four rodents shall be kept in the dwelling unit at any time" .... Does is meen that i can not keep more then 3 rodents like mice in the house? And also does it meen that i have to have 2 snakes before i get a miner venomous one?

[Vanan]

Let's just put it this way Alex. Venomous snakes are illegal in the City of Burnaby. Plus, you forget that I know where you live. Doesn't take long to get the authorities on you buddy. Please consult a shrink.

Invictus, this guy's no troll, he's serious dude!

[Soul_Reaper]

Originally posted by AlexPan
Firstable Invictus DON'T U EVER DARE TO SPEACK TO ME THIS WAY AS I WERE A 5 YEAR OLD BOY!!!!!!!! yOU BETTER CHANGE YOURE WAYS OR ALS I'L HAVE TO TAKE EXTREAM MESURES!! Obviously we are very different people and obviously you have no idea what kind of person i am! So unless you got something good and usfull to say plz STF! I really hate people like you discouraging others! Just know this... in 2 years when i'm gona be milking snakes you will be the first on my first list of the people who did not believe in me.

BoidKeeper I am well aware of the laws in Canada BC and it clearly stater that ANY anymal which is not native in this region is illigal. Following this i will not answer any more quistions relating laws in Canada.

I have 3 very interesting points to state here kid:

First of all: Invictus did have something VERY usefull to say, just like 30 other people before him who all said the same thing: DON'T DO IT.

Second: You DO sound like a 5 year old spoiled brat.

Third but not least: In 2 years Invictus will probably be nodding his head in discontent after he reads the news on some newspaper, saying that some stupid kid from Canada got bit by a venomous reptile and got seriously injured/killed.

And the sad thing about all this is......the animals will be the ones who will suffer the most. It is very clear that you do not have what it takes to take care of them, therefore...they suffer at your expense.

Tsc tsc tsc...

[AlexPan]

Dozer I SOOOO much agree with you! Keep up the good wark ;)

[AlexPan]

Hey hey Vanan Buddy. Did not notice at first that it was you. Vanan do you have a 50/50 cal king male for sale or any 1 als in here? who or what is a shrink?
Guys just chill i'm not gona get a venomous snake for another atlest 2 years anyways! Relax i'm not a some kind of a syco, obviously i will lern about them befor getting them.

[AlexPan]

Soul Reaper you should act more like Dozer and not say youre childish comments about some 1 u never meat!

[Dozer]

uhhhh...

I'm not agreein' with anyone here.

Mike

[HetForHuman]

All i have to say is i have a headache from trying to read any of AlexPan's posts.

Get a spell checker or learn how to spell buddy.

Ohhh and also i agree with pretty much everyones replys except for of course Alex's.

[Dozer]

Like, whats the deal... lets say, a 15 year old goes herpin'... handles a copperhead with hooks... just because our lil' herpin' friend is actually herpin', does that allow him to handle snakes if he wishes too,even though he may have 2 years experience?... ya cool, I found a copperhead our herper screams... But wait, our 15 year old herper would be slammed if he or she were to handle one in captivity 'cause (s)hes 15... kinda get to what I'm sayin'... I sorta dont understand that... See, dont argue to my point because it will never end and some people with their limited minds will start flamin'... but just consider it...

Mike

[AlexPan]

HEHE ur funny HetForHuman!!

[AlexPan]

Dozer i have no clue of what do u meen? Besides i'm 17 not 15 lolz!

[JeffT]

Good god man go to a grammar course. I have 3 and 4 year old cousins who spell better than you. You say not to treat you like your a 5 year old but its hard not to when you represent yourself like one.

[Big Mike]

I think I see what is going on here...you came here to ask some knowledgeable people a question. Those people gave you knowledgeable answers and you replied by shooting back poorly spelt excuses or saying that you do not understand.

People here are not just going to tell you what you want to hear. If you want that...talk to your parents.

[Nicky]

so basically your gonna buy a water snake which take alot of care from what i've looked up on the internet stress it out for no reason and pretend your milking it and then have it die in acouple of months from stress or inproper care. thats cruel getting a snkae for the soul purpose of stressing it out because unless you have about 60,000 plus all your doing is hurting the poor water snake.I"m not trying to be mean but crulty to reptiles p*sses me off.

[Soul_Reaper]

Originally posted by AlexPan
Soul Reaper you should act more like Dozer and not say youre childish comments about some 1 u never meat!

Maybe you should grow up and start listening to those who mean to help you out. And if you don't, i would be more than glad to laugh at your misfortune when something really bad happens. Seriously.

And since i'm on the run here i'll also prove Dozer wrong. He pretty much said that the amount of experience one can have is absolutely irrelevant.

So picture this:

On one hand you have a 17 year old kid who has NEVER handled a hot snake before, who probably has never even handled anything more than a corn snake. This kid is about to handle a Black Mamba, or a 15ft long King Cobra.

On the other hand you have the experienced keeper. Someone who has been dealing with Poisonous animals for years, who has learned everything possible about the animal by trial and error. This person has handled hundreds of snakes before and knows how to read the snakes movements and reactions. This Experienced keeper is about to handle a Black Mamba, or a 15ft long King Cobra.

Now here's the one million dollar question: Who is more likely to get bitten and killed? The answer is quite obvious.

You can both try to prove me or anyone else here wrong (i don't think i'm alone on this one). But i rest my case.

[HetForHuman]

Originally posted by AlexPan
HEHE ur funny HetForHuman!!

Ummm it wasnt meant to be funny man.

Seriously you need help, and not just with spelling.

[Soul_Reaper]

I'm done with this thread by the way. I'm going home.

Goodnight everyone!

[Siretsap]

Puberty must of just reached him.

Hope I never see his sorry *** in the orbituary.

[AlexPan]

Obviously i'm not getting much of the information of you guys as i was hoping i would, and this is my last reply so thanks for every one's tips and i'm off to try to find some people who will teach me how to milk and all about venomous snakes.

[AlexPan]

And lets just say to dissagree and not to be mud on each other ;)

[HetForHuman]

Originally posted by AlexPan
Obviously i'm not getting much of the information of you guys as i was hoping i would, and this is my last reply so thanks for every one's tips and i'm off to try to find some people who will teach me how to milk and all about venomous snakes.

HAHAH good luck!!!!!

[AlexPan]

Sereously HetForHuman you are one heck of a funny dood LOLZ!!!!

[Siretsap]

Alex, tought your last post was the 3rd one up?
oh well, he can't spell and doesn't know the meaning of words.
nice.

[gonesnakee]

2 words to describe AlexPan "FUTURE STATISTIC".
Also Alex I have changed my mind in reguards to my picture of my snakes you posted on your website without my consent or knowledge. I expect to see it/them removed A.S.A.P. or I will consider legal action. I don't take too kindly to the general attitude presented by yourself when I contacted you about it or the same attitude presented here. I have posted in the inquiry section & will let anyone who cares to reply what I think of you so far. Not that you don't represent that yourself here. For someone with as much passion for getting into Herps as yourself you are burning lots of bridges right off the bat. Any luck selling/trading those baby kings that are to be produced once you even aquire a sexed pair? LOL Get a grip Mark I.
P.S. The pic I'm reffering to is of my Banded CK's breeding that is posted on his site. he asked me about baby CKs via email on 3 seperate occassions & took the liberty to use photos I sent him so he could see the "stock" to promote his "cause". He also had my friend from Quebec contact me a 4th time about the same CKs. I guess the first 3 answers I gave him were not suffient. Maybe 17 in age, but not attitude. NUFF SAID before I start slandering.
P.P.S. Invictus is a friend of mine & I don't take kindly to idle threats made to myself or my friends!

[AlexPan]

HEHE another funny dood HEHEHE. Just came back to say that atleast i'm asking you guys and others to teach me about milking and probing, but my frien sells King Cobras for $60.00 each so i could easily get 1 but i'm not that stuped!!!

[Lisa]

Alexpan: shrink is slang for psychiatrist. Like I said before, you need to see one.

As for self envenomation this should be done under strict observation by a doctor. You're talking about injecting a lethal poison into your body. There's side effects that you have to worry about as well. And then there's the stress on the snake. Why hurt the snake so you can have the thrill of milking it since you obviously can't do anything with the venom? This is called animal abuse and hopefully the animal fights back at you.

If all the experts are telling you you're doing something stupid wouldn't you agree you're doing something stupid?

[Dozer]

Soul Reaper, if I had shown in my post that its absolutely irrelevant, than my apologizies, I said that occurs in some cases though :) Just stating a fact man :)

[Nicky]

ya if you intend to hurt/stress out any posinous snake just so you can watse its venom i hope you get arrested for animal crulty and the animal strikes back. and i doubt anyone on this site will sell you a water snake after reading this post.

[AlexPan]

GONESNAKEE Just because you hate me for some reason i AM NOT GONA TAKE UR PIC OF MY SITE. Further more, when i aquired that pic and checked youre website, it did NON sayd that no COPY WRIGHTING!! There for you got no legal wrights against me! As for This discussion today o saw what kind of most of people you really are there for good buy i'm leving this forums But just know this NO MATTER WHAT U DO I WILL GET A VENOMOUS SNAKE ONES I'M MORE EXPERIANCED! However i will keep my website in here just to piss Gonesnake off cause for some reason you were born to:
Live, Wark, and bull shet!
Unlike me i was born to help the nature and WHAT EVER it takes no matter WHAT OTHERS THINK i will do what i came on this planet to do!
Unless Gonesnakee you wana apolagise, gess what youre pic will be on my site for ever MUAHAHAHA!!!

[Invictus]

I don't need to know you, AlexPan, I know your TYPE. And you know what? So far, it has been SO much fun watching you dig your own grave, and I mean that both literally AND figuratively. Oh, sorry..... big words. Let me sum it up for you.

1) You come on to this forum and immediately begin spamming the classified section looking for adult Cal Kings. You even posted a few ads in the LIZARDS section for this!

2) Your website is advertising snakes for sale that you don't even have a breedable pair of yet,

3) Your website has a ripped off image from a friend of mine, who is also a RESPECTED breeder who has earned his place in this community,

4) You have the spelling and grammar of a 3 year old,

5) When confronted, you resort to idle threats. By the way, I'd like to add that I was getting into fights daily and scrapping my way through this world when you were still sucking on a bottle and smearing your own crap on the wall. (You know, like a year or so ago.) So please try to imagine how hard I laughed when I read your threat.

Well, let me inform you of something. The herp community is smaller than you think, and reputations travel fast. Do you think we're all trying to verbally slap some sense into you because we like it? Because we're bored? NO! Because we know what you are getting yourself into, and you apparently don't. We DO NOT want you to get killed over your stupid dream, but you're GOING to. It's a shame that there's nothing we can do to stop you. So go ahead and get yourself killed. I'll nominate you for a Darwin award.

pathetic. That's all I can say.

[Invictus]

P.S, Mark I - Thanks. :)

[AlexPan]

People People again you say that i'm gona milk snakes and waist venom. Can you not read what i'm saying? I said many times before that i will get the venomous snake only after i know enaph about them! Do you not anderstand what i meen?

[Lisa]

Originally posted by AlexPan
GONESNAKEE Just because you hate me for some reason i AM NOT GONA TAKE UR PIC OF MY SITE. Further more, when i aquired that pic and checked youre website, it did NON sayd that no COPY WRIGHTING!! There for you got no legal wrights against me! As for This discussion today o saw what kind of most of people you really are there for good buy i'm leving this forums But just know this NO MATTER WHAT U DO I WILL GET A VENOMOUS SNAKE ONES I'M MORE EXPERIANCED! However i will keep my website in here just to piss Gonesnake off cause for some reason you were born to:
Live, Wark, and bull shet!
Unlike me i was born to help the nature and WHAT EVER it takes no matter WHAT OTHERS THINK i will do what i came on this planet to do!
Unless Gonesnakee you wana apolagise, gess what youre pic will be on my site for ever MUAHAHAHA!!!


Guess you don't know copyright law. All created works are AUTOMATICLY have copyright protection from the moment they were created. Mark can have your entire site shut down for the picture should you refuse to remove it. He could even win money from you in court should he prove damages.

[HetForHuman]

Originally posted by AlexPan
GONESNAKEE Just because you hate me for some reason i AM NOT GONA TAKE UR PIC OF MY SITE. Further more, when i aquired that pic and checked youre website, it did NON sayd that no COPY WRIGHTING!! There for you got no legal wrights against me! As for This discussion today o saw what kind of most of people you really are there for good buy i'm leving this forums But just know this NO MATTER WHAT U DO I WILL GET A VENOMOUS SNAKE ONES I'M MORE EXPERIANCED! However i will keep my website in here just to piss Gonesnake off cause for some reason you were born to:
Live, Wark, and bull shet!
Unlike me i was born to help the nature and WHAT EVER it takes no matter WHAT OTHERS THINK i will do what i came on this planet to do!
Unless Gonesnakee you wana apolagise, gess what youre pic will be on my site for ever MUAHAHAHA!!!

HAHAAHHH you just screwed yourself right there man. You just said it is his pic so HAHAHAH go get him Mark.

And most of us people here at least have a clue of what is going on, unlike you. Trust me it will be no great loss losing you off of these forums man.

Good luck with your milking snakes. HAHAHAHAHAH

[Katt]

I've found this highly amusing on both sides.

Alex is ESL, Russian if I believe. Vanan and I have both met him. Seemed a decent sort, except for the atrocious spelling, but then, I'm sure if I tried to spell Russian, I'd look like a three year old too.

Now as for Alex. Unfotunately, your herp experience is just FAR too below what you will need to deal with hots. Also, you do and will need the Canadian herp community for support, advice and just plain ole networking. B/c the herp biz is under SERIOUS scrutiny from "those who oppose us" we must be very strict in our self regulations. Your manner of approach appears to hot headed, and NO ONE who wants to work with venomous (not poisonous, two different terms), should be a hot head. Understand, that these peole just want to protect their community, their livelihood, and their hobby.

As for the rest of you. Education never comes from insulting the person you want to teach anything; all you bring on is self defensive behaviour.

Let's all grow up a little and try to show ourselves for what we are. Adults. Alex needs to learn, let's teach him.

[Big Mike]

17 going on 6...that is becoming obvious. Mark does not have to say "no copy writing" for his photos to be strictly his property. I doubt that your use of his pictures would fall under fair use laws...so I would say that he does have a legal case against you.

On the other hand...I am finding it hard to believe that this is a legitimate post. It would take far too much work to consistently spell that poorly. Even stupid people can spell some word correctly sometimes. Just give up and go home.

[HetForHuman]

Originally posted by Invictus


Well, let me inform you of something. The herp community is smaller than you think, and reputations travel fast. Do you think we're all trying to verbally slap some sense into you because we like it? Because we're bored? NO! Because we know what you are getting yourself into, and you apparently don't. We DO NOT want you to get killed over your stupid dream, but you're GOING to. It's a shame that there's nothing we can do to stop you. So go ahead and get yourself killed. I'll nominate you for a Darwin award.

pathetic. That's all I can say.


Well said my friend, well said.

[Dozer]

awwwwwwww,

Dude, you just messed things right the **** up man...

Good luck.

Mike

[Matt_K]

Okay everyone.. Let's cool down here. There's no need for name calling and threats.. Closed..