sand from home depot

[Darren179]

now I have heard about playbox sand ? first what type to be exact and is there any type that is a light brown - white. and should it be rinsed first? the reason I ask is im redoing my 100 gallon bearded tank to a desert theme and calci sand would be way to expensive. thanks

[Zoe]

If you must go with sand, then yes get the playground sand from homedepot. Rinse it well, definitely. You may even want to slosh it over with a mild vinegar solution before rinsing it to kill anything that's in there.
Then spread it un the tand and let it dry.

Zoe

[Mark]

the white sand is Decor sand I believe. I get mine from home depot. Works well

[ChristinaM]

I love white sand myself....the only place I found it was The Building Box in the spring/summer season....they sold out by the time I went for a second bag :( and only had the light brow stuff left.

I use playsand, got mine from TSC.....

[Phox]

If you have to use sand, childrens "PLAYSAND" is probably your best best. It can be found in the garden section at your local Lowes or Home Depot and I believe they come in 50lb bags. The sand is white and pre-washed.

[Big Mike]

Sand is not a safe substrate for beardies. Why would you want to use something that will slowly kill your animal?

[Darren179]

Ive always used sand with my adult beardies and had no problems whatso ever. they com efrom desert regions if im not mistaken so I do beleive that they will be fine and I just like giving the most natural habitat possible

[Big Mike]

Do a search of the BD forum. Read some of the posts from Eyespy, she know first hand the results of keeping beardies on sand.

Just because beardies kept on sand are not dead yet, or even showing signs of ill health, does not mean that it is safe for them. I don't want to come off as argumentative but how long have been keeping beardies on sand? Typically, captive beardies on sand do not live longer than 5-7 years. I have heard of beardies living three times that long.

Also, Australia is not all an arid desert covered in play sand. If beardies were really from regions with nothing but sand...they would have developed a way to let sand pass through their bodys...unfortuantly they have not.

I personally don't care if people want to keep their beardies on sand but at least give caution to beginners who ask questions about it.

[drewlowe]

"cough" wheat bran "cough" bed-a-beast (or simular product) "cough"

LOL sorry had to do it.

[Darren179]

thanks for the advice.

[Reptiles4ever]

y does everyone hate the sand idea that is their natural habitat and what they been livin in on the wild for like ver so y is it such a bad idea

[drewlowe]

Chronic Impactation. Do a search in the beardie forum and you will see why it's so bad.

Sorry not trying to be rude but i'm at work and i don't have the time to explain it. So just do that search and you will see. For easier refrence just check eyespys post (just as it was said above). That will lead you in the right direction

[Big Mike]

Why do people assume that Bearded Dragons only live in sandy desert conditions?

Various substrates can be used in the habitat of Bearded Dragons. It is wise to consider the location this species is found in. Although the dragon is found in the arid desert locations of Australia, the ground tends to be hardened. This hardened surface makes it more difficult for dragons to pick up particles of sand or stone while eating. It can be very dangerous for bearded dragons to swallow sand and other substrates, because it can cause difficulty in digestion and can be fatal if compacted in the gut. Many captive Beardeds often eat sand deliberately in search of calcium.


Quoted from here http://www.justherps.com/caresheets/bearded_dragon_caresheet.htm

[drewlowe]

Originally posted by Big Mike
Why do people assume that Bearded Dragons only live in sandy desert conditions?


They always will!!!!! Don't know why but it will never change.

[CDN COLDBLOOD]

Play sand is a good substrate for beardeds! A healthy dragon will pass sand very easily. If sand is impacting the digestive tract of a dragon, there's probably more serious problems with the health of the dragon such as dehydration. I would not advise beginners to do there research on the forums, because people state things that have really no merit, they are just opinions. Take what you read with a grain of salt. It's easy to say that "my dragon died of impaction" without really knowing the cause. It's a convenient answer.
Darren is right when he suggests that dragons in the wild ingest sand (not that they only come from sandy enviroments). They also ingest other larger debris, but amazingly they survive. What I'm saying is, if your dragon dies from sand impaction, that probably wasn't the main cause of it's death, but only the climactic end. If your dragon is cared for properly, sand will not kill it.
If you really want a good substrate for beardeds, try using a sandy soil, like most monitor breeders use for their australian animals. To use a substrate that is available in the pet trade such as calci-sand, or beda-beast is crazy. It's too expensive and has no real benefit, only commercial hype. Better yet, when researching, don't even look at reptile related sites, find geological studies that were taken from areas where beardeds live, that's the best info.
For those opposed to sand, what substrates do you use? Just curious.

[Big Mike]

I use a substrate that is similar to Bed-a-beast.

I really don't want to argue. Keep them on sand if you want too. I and fully agree that advice around here must be taken with a grain of salt, so to speak. I have read a lot of posts from Eyespy, whom I believe to be very knowledgeable on the subject.

The following quote was taken from this thread (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13234&highlight=Death+sand)


boa, I've heard that line from 1985 to present when somebody does finally get an animal that dies from impaction. Did you know there are 2 types of impaction? Acute is when a clump of sand blocks off the entire plumbing and sudden death occurs. But chronic impaction is the more insidious kind and can not be accurately diagnosed without slitting the bowel open. That is the type of impaction most commonly found with playsand.

This occurs when sand sticks to the wet walls of the intestines and forms a coating. The animal loses the ability to absorb nutrients through the affected areas and slowly starves to death. Sometimes the tissue underneath the sand dies off and the animal goes septic and dies suddenly. If there is no necrosis, it can take upwards of 3 years for death to occur.

Most vets, even in necropsy, blame this sort of death on parasites or failure to thrive and never slit the bowel open to see if there is a sand coating. It's a very highly underdiagnosed problem.

Nicola, in the wild they DO NOT live on loose sand. It's sand mixed with soil that bakes into a hard crust, not dunes like the beach or the Sahara. Australian beardie keepers use bricklayer's sand with a high clay content to simulate their natural environment, they never use fine grained sand as that coats the intestines too easily. Beardie keepers who do use sand are regularly fined by

Wet your hand and bury it in sand. Does the sand cling? Can you shake it off easily? Probably not. Then that's what's happening inside the beardie's gut. Intestines are not smooth like sausage casings. They have millions of villi, fingerlike projections which absorb nutrients. Picture a coral reef with lots of sea anemones. That's what the gut is like. Sand clings all over those structures.

I've spent countless hours in the OR holding 3 feet of dying small intestine while the surgeon tried to find enough healthy tissue to justify keeping chronic impacted beardies alive. Almost all of them end up being euthanized because there just isn't enough functioning bowel left.

I bought this 5 week old beardie from a breeder that uses washed playsand. Having seen what I have, my vet and I did a gastric lavage to flush out the intestines thorougly and the vial is full of sand, bile salts and other digestive chemicals that were removed from her. It was almost 20% of her body weight after just 5 short weeks of being on sand. She would have been dead inside of 5 years had we not removed the sand

[CDN COLDBLOOD]

Hi Mike!
I'm not trying to argue, just another veiwpoint. The point is that common subsrtates people conventionally use for dragon's won't kill them, there's many other captive husbandry issues that need to be addressed before we can blame the substrate.

Personally, I think that the best substrate for them would be a thick layer of packed sandy soil, sort of what I use with my monitors. I holds humidity well and will allow the dragons to burrow if they want, and beleive me they do, we just don't give them that option in captivity.

You're right, people tend to think dragons are only from the desert, and house them that way. We don't give them enough options in captivity (like burrowing), just a dry enclosure that would turn meat into beef jerky!

If we would give them more options, we might see less problems!
Just some thoughts!
Brandon

[Big Mike]

Point taken.

I fully agree that more options is much better. That is what responsibly housing reptiles is all about anyway, is it not? We provide them with options and let them do what they would do in a natural setting.

[Bighead]

It might also be good to point out that dragons kept in captivity can live much longer lives than those in the wild if conditions are ideal. There hasn't been many necropsies done on wild beardies that I am aware of, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some of them live shorter lives due to various degrees of impaction.

[Big Mike]

I may be wrong but I think that Eyespy mentioned a study that was done on wild bearded dragons. I don't remember if it said that they lived longer or not but I think that they could live for up to 20 years or something like that. One factor is that wild adults eat 90% plants and only 10% animals. Not to mention a wide variety of both.

Captive dragons are usually fed a much higher percent of insects than those in the wild. This supposedly can cause fatty liver deice and other problems.

[Sean Day]

Hi Big Mike

Have you ever had an impacted dragon? If so can I ask what your supplementation routine was?

Thanks
Sean

[Darren179]

so is there any good inexpensive clays I can use?

[Phox]

If your not gonna use sand I also recommend Bed-A-Beast, its harmless if ingested and looks nice. I use it with both my dragons.

[Big Mike]

I'm happy to say that my Beardies have never been impacted. If you have any questions, I suggest you ask Eyespy.

[reverendsterlin]

sand impaction is a slow process, while maybe not seen as the cause of many deaths, I think that over years it does present a problem. Until there is definitive proof I will house on other substrates.

[Sean Day]

Hi Big Mike

Nope no questions just wanted to see if you are talking from experience or not. It seems most people against sand are just quoting someone else and don't really have the first hand experience.

Those that do have problems almost always (from what I have seen) are not following proper husbandry to begin with.

Sean

[Big Mike]

I hear what you're saying Sean, it's true I have zero experience with impacted Beardies and I am just regurgitating someone else's advice. But I do believe it to be good advice and I thought that I would try to help out someone who asked the question.

This just seems to be one of those issues where you get a lot of people saying "There is nothing wrong with it, I've done it for years with no problems". I believe that someone asking the question should hear the other side of the debate...overly cautious or not.

If someone said that they never changed the oil in their car and that it has worked fine for years. I would still offer the advice that the oil should be changed often...even though I've never had a motor blow up on me.

[Sean Day]

It is definitely good advice you are giving. I try not to recommend sand to beginners and do believe people should here both sides of the discussion.

With so many people having problems and so many others not it is interesting to try to figure out why.

You mean I am supposed to change the oil in my car? LOL

[sheldon]

I used sand for years with no problem! A few weeks ago I started using bran and the beardies eat it! They sh!? it out no problem.They dig in it just like sand.It cost 8.60 for 50 KG at a feed store. I'll never use sand again.I guess use your own judgement but read the old posts.