First time Breeder...3 questions

[SerpentLust]

Alright, I want to try my hand at breeding, hence the reason I'm getting a trio of Fat Tails...and I understand all the pre-breeding activities, all the preparation for her to lay, etc.

Now I'm just learning about incubation methods, and I found one that I really like, however, I'd like to know people's opinions on if it's a good method: http://members.aol.com/TheWyvernsLair/incubator.html

Three questions I have with this are:
1. He said, "you have to keep the substrate damp, if it dries out you have to make it damp again without unnecessarily wetting the eggs" which would say to me "move the eggs" but it says that the enbryos die if they're moved too much. So in the case that you have to redampen the substrate, do you just spray around them? How else do you avoid disturbing the eggs?

2. What, in your opinion, is the best substrate for the incubator? I like the idea of paper towel.

3. With hatchling Fat Tail geckos, can they go back into the large community tank with the mother(s) and father, or is it best to keep them seperate? Because I will have a 1.2 breeding trio in a tank, but I can also make other enclosures if it's inadvisable to put the hatchlings back with their parents.

Thanks guys :)
Jenn

[Wuntu Menny]

I haven't checked the link, but any time I see suggestions on how to maintain proper moisture levels during incubation, I shudder. The less you disturb the eggs, the better their chances of hatching. With the enclosed gecko incubators we use, no additional moisture has to be added to the medium for the duration. I've kept eggs in the chamber for over a year and not had to tend them at all.

By far the best material I've found is vermiculite. It holds water well, its not white like perlite so any mold will be immediately visible, and its more or less sterile coming out of the bag as opposed to moss or soils that some breeders use.

Having not kept AFT's, I'm not really qualified to answer the last Q, but general herp husbandry experience leads me to believe that the hatchlings would fare better if removed to a separate enclosure for rearing.

WM

[SerpentLust]

Thank you WM, so I'm thinking if I alter that incubation method a bit on the link to hold more moisture it should be better, because as I said, that incubation method REALLY appeals to me :)

I have never even SEEN vermiculite to be honest. Where do I get it?

And yes, I was assuming that they would do better on their own if not for the simply fact that they wouldn't be able to eat the cricket sizes their parents do lol There are alot of other problems that could simply be avoided by me building a little rack system :)

Thank you
Jenn

[marisa]

I also do not keep AFT's but moving the eggs for any reason is a very bad idea. Eggs should be placed in the incubator and ignored (as hard as it is) which means having an incubator that can hold humidity and heat for a long period of time.

The ten gallon with aquarium heater does work but I agree with WM about vermeculite. Almost everyone uses this for eggs at some point or another and it works like a charm.

Marisa

[Wuntu Menny]

Ok, I checked the link. That's essentially the same setup as what I use, but LOSE the critter cage! I use an appropriate sized Rubbermaid or Sterilite container and only drill holes in the sides.

Jenn, I'm going to send you my incubator setup sheet by email. You might find a happy medium between all the suggestions available.

WM

[SerpentLust]

Haha dumba$$ me, Rubbermaid didn't even OCCUR to me! lmao

Jenn

[SerpentLust]

How To Make an Incubator

This is a fairly simple method of building an incubator, shown to me by a friend who works at Super Pet:
1. Take a styrofoam box or cooler and place a pickle jar in it. Inside the jar should be a fish tank heater.
2. Fill the pickle jar with water, and keep it filled.
3. Play around with the temperature gauge on the heater to adjust the temperature (it should be 83° - 85°F).
4. Once the temperature is set correctly, place the container of eggs in the box.

Be sure to check the water level often, and make sure the temperature is where it should be. You may want to use a digital thermometer for the most accurate results. and be sure to check the temp with a digital thermometer because you want it to be accurate.

What about this one? And yes I will be bothering EVERYONE until I get the incubator MADE Mwuahaha you people will be SO annoyed by the end of all this. lol

Jenn

[MouseKilla]

Is there any practical difference between using an aquarium as opposed to an insulated container such as a cooler? I'm also not sure where the pickle jar comes in... if you use one is the egg container no longer partially submerged? Does all the heat come from what radiates off the jar?

[Wuntu Menny]

The aquarium is designed to contain water for long periods, the cooler isn't. The cooler is also a lot more fragile on it's own. With this method you are constantly having to check and refill the jar. If the jar runs low on water, your heater is toast.

Jenn: I'm having a friend come over and take some pix of our incubators this weekend. I'll be able to post some visual aid by next week.

WM

[SerpentLust]

WM: Very cool

Thanks everyone for all your help :)

[Stockwell]

I've bred fat tails.. You hatch the eggs just like Leo eggs. They are parchment shell type and require a moist medium to prevent dessication.
Use vermiculite for hatching media. Mix water with it and squeeze it like a snow ball. It should clump but not drip. This is my tried and proven method.. Add water or dry verm, until you get it the right consistancy. Make a indent with your finger and lay the eggs in. Do not cover the eggs.
Set them up in a closed container with only a couple tiny holes.
You want your moisture in your egg box, not in your incubator, as it makes a big mess and creates a shock hazard
Incubators should only be controlled heat, not humidity. The humidity will be look after itself providing the vermiculite is placed in a nearly sealed food saver. If evaporation is limited by the closed container, you will automatically have a near 100% RH, its basic physics.
If you use 3 inches of vermiculite in a shoebox rubbermaid, that should last the entire incubation period without having to add water.(providing you dont fill it with holes)

Babies cannot be put back with parents as they will be eaten.
Fat tails are not as easy to breed as Leos. they tend to produce less clutches and have more infertility problems.

[SerpentLust]

Stockwell: Thank you, with your method, how would I control heat?

Jenn

[Stockwell]

Hi Jenn. The key to hatching most eggs is the egg box, not the incubator. Sure Pythons need tight control at 90F but things like Leos, Fat tails and most colubrid eggs will hatch in the herp room or any box that has a temp between 78 and 90 F
Tighter control is better, as it allows to predict hatch dates more accurately, and gender in some geckos, but people over emphasize the importance of temperature. Lots of commercial breeders simply leave eggs in the herp room on shelves, with no precise temp control. Of course they must be set up in vermiculite and in almost sealed egg boxes, as I outlined.

Jenn, you can buy a Hovabator if you like, and have the money, or you can make a home incubator just as many have suggested,after all a Hovabator, is nothing more than a fish styro and a chunk of Nichrome wire hooked to bi-metal thermostat.
You can create your own heat source in a box quite easily.

Incubators need not be too elaborate to work.
Putting a glass aquarium heater in a free gallon pickle jar from the corner Pizza joint, then putting that in some type of box, like a cooler is the cheapest way to go.
The heater in the pickle jar, simply acts as a heat source. That heated bottle, then in turn, heats the environment around it.
You adjust the thermostat on the fish heater until the air in the surrounding box, is at the temp you want (mid 80's)
Using a cooler of fish shipping Styro, simply gives you the advantage of having some insulation quality. This tends to help stabilize the temp inside the box.
An aquarium with a closed top could be used, as could a simple cardboard box, but the temp will change quicker with room temp shifts, so this is why an insulated box, is preferred.

Now I should point out that some people don't close off the top of the water reservoir(pickle bottle or other vessel)
This is a mistake, because you don't want the water to evaporate, as it will potentially burn out your heater. They must be in water all the time or the glass will break. You also don't want all that water evaporating and ending up in your styro ( or cooler etc)
You dont need all that mess in there, plus it creates a shock hazard. The only place you need humidity is in your nearly sealed egg box with your properly prepared vermiculite. The humidity will look after itself...

Hopefully you got all that??? Hatching most parchment shell eggs is easy. The main causes of failure are getting eggs too hot too wet, or having them completely dry up.
Getting good eggs from Fat tails can be a problem though. You might want to breed some Leos to get the hang of it first. They are much easier

You asked about vermiculite and what it was... It is puffed up and processed MICA, which is mined from ore(from the ground)

It's cheaper than dirt. You can get it at Walmart or in any plant store or nursery. Can Tire sells it in handy sized bags as well.


Best Regards, and seasons greetings
roy

[MouseKilla]

Thanks man, that clears my questions up too. Seems you're saying that it doesn't matter how you create the heat (all this pickle jar stuff I keep hearing threw me off at first) so long as you can get the right temperature and can keep it stable. That's easy enough I guess.

[BoidKeeper]

Jenn,

Check out my gallery for a step by step photo guide to building an incubator. Any questions just send me a PM.
Cheers,
Trevor