Care of the Elderly.

[dr greenlove]

Recently it has become apparent that my eldest/longest owned snake (a 14+ year old Corn snake...and the first serpent i ever had many years ago) is perhaps succumbing to old age itself.:(

She no longer has the colour she once had and certainly not the appetite (and when she does eat it sometimes comes back up a day or so later...very small meals only!).

Now my (admittedly vague) point/question is this...what are your experiances of geriatric snake care?

All the books and care sheets in world talk at great length about incubating eggs, raising hatchlings and the like...but as far as i know none really say what is best to do with an old and generally frail OAP snake.

I'm not really talking talking about euthanising a very sick creature..what i am talking is what do we know about the "signs and symptoms" of advanced age in snakes (and i suppose in reptiles in general).

Additionally, while i know that the stated longevity for most colubrids seems to be 12+ years...is this what people have experienced?. I suppose on this point what i am asking is although i "know" from a text-book point of view that my animal is old, would those that have kept Corn Snakes for many years agree with the books?

Sorry about the longish post, but before my startling realisation that the reason that she was looking and seeming a bit sub par might due to the years creeping on, i had never really considered what this might actually mean.


Any thoughts would be appreciated...and i hope this post made sense.
:)

[UpscaleBoas]

sorry bud....i guess this is something we have to face..i've only been at this for about 7 years.....i'll be looking in this post with real interest..good luck

[Katt]

I haven't very many old snakes, but my advice would be keep her comfortable for as long as possible. Once she stops eating, or puking too often, I would say put her down. It's terrible to let an animal linger on. When her quality of life is less than what it is now, then let go.

Some of the signs we have seen in old snakes, are besides a lack of interest in food, are fatty lumps and cataracts. Seen lot of oldies with cataracts. Also, they seem "stiff" in the body, not as elastic feeling.

[Stockwell]

Yup, ditto to Katt! They stop feeding sometimes and just fade away..It can take months.
I've had greybanded kings and Transpecos rats die of old age, in the 15 year plus range.
They often get white spots in the eye, like Katt mentioned, and somtiemes the vertebrae will fuse, so there will be parts of the snake that are rigid and can't flex.
shedding problems become more apparent as well...

[eyespy]

About the only thing I have ever read is to decrease feeding frequency as the metabolism slowing down means that food is no longer used as effectively and things like gout are more likely to develop. But nobody ever gives details on just how much the feedings should be reduced.

[dr greenlove]

Thanks for the replies.

shedding problems become more apparent as well...

Interestingly (sadly?) i noticed that her last shed wasn't the best, with a bit of the tail tip left attached. This was just before the last regurge...i didn't connect the two at the time.


somtiemes the vertebrae will fuse


I did wonder about arthritic conditions...it's bad in all things, but somehow it just seems particularly nasty in snakes.:(


Once she stops eating, or puking too often, I would say put her down. It's terrible to let an animal linger on. When her quality of life is less than what it is now, then let go.


I agree absolutely. What is would be considered the kindest way of euthanising the animal? I remember reading in books many years ago that putting the animal in a freezer was a humane method (although i remain to be convinced), or is it a matter that a vetinary should take care of.


Once again, thanks for the replies.

[C.m.pyrrhus]

Aging in captivity is a far cry from that of the wild. Most well aged animals in the wild are neat to see, as they have stood the test of time for survival. With captive animals, it is our duty to find fit the need to end the life that naturally would have been taken by weather, predators or some other factor.

As I see it, once an animal is no longer able to live comfortably it is time that they are sent to their maker. We as people find the need to 'help' them live more comfortable through medicine and other means, but in the end I see it as just prolonging the inevitable.

Older animals will decrease their need to feed due to their slowed metabolism as eyespy noted. Aging also pays a bit of a toll on the physical and mental abilities to survive as well. Once you see obvious signs of age, I think there should be some concideration towards its lifestyle. Feeding will be reduced, mobility and mental observations will slow and so on and so forth. Once it is noticed that the animal has pretty much given up, or that they can no longer function normally, I would assume that the end is near, and therefore may need to make death an option for "humane" reasons. I see no need to treat an animal unless there are signs that life would continue as normal afterwards. As for putting an animal down, a vetenarian would be of help, or possible home methods as CO2, but I have no experience in this nor have I ever heard of.

[Vanan]

or possible home methods as CO2

I doubt that. Never heard of CO2 ever being suggested for snakes. Wouldn't work. Snake metabolism isn't fast enough to succumb to asphyxia. Halothane gas is one which used to be the choice for reptile euthanasia.

[Tom Cat]

This is an interesting topic that I had never considered!

For what its worth, I recently noticed an incredible change in one of my longterm captives (Cal King) when I transferred it from a sweater box to a large aquarium in my living room. The change in living conditions seemed to immediately bring newfound life to her. She actually became an incredible display animal and could always be counted on to cruise around the cage whenever there were people in the living room. For all I know she just wanted to be fed, but maybe there was more to it than that? Maybe as age comes on and breeding/feeding stimulus is lessened, external stimulas is helpful in keeping these older animals active and healthy? Just a thought!

Anyway, I think this is a worthwhile subject that probably needs more investigation. thanks

[Auskan]

Putting in the freezer would be as humane a method as any, I think. After all, for those of us feeding frozen food to our snakes, news flash: that is how they are killed. When freezing, there is a time when you feel cold, but then all you feel is sleepy and you go to sleep and never wake up. Its said to be one of the most peaceful ways to die.

[Dani33]

From what I have heard, freezing is an inhumane and painful way to die. The blood crystalizes within the animal and is very painful. Rodent feeders are usually killed with C02 and then frozen. I think that I would go to a vet and have them put down when the time was obvious.

[eyespy]

Many of the vets I know used inhaled gases such as a combination of isoflurane and CO2 for reptile euthanasia. Some also give a sedative injection, and some give just an overdose injection. Freezing is considered to be inhumane and could result in points against their licenses.

[Lasher]

I have no personal experience, but recently read a book called something lie" 101 things you snake wants you to know". It DID advocate using the freezer to euthanize reptiles. They described it exactly as Auskan did. It gets cold, then goes into a hibernation type state, then dies. They did make it a point to say NOT to put it in the fridge, as it is not cold enough to quickly euthanize the animal.

[dr greenlove]

Originally posted by Lasher
I have no personal experience, but recently read a book called something lie" 101 things you snake wants you to know". It DID advocate using the freezer to euthanize reptiles. They described it exactly as Auskan did. It gets cold, then goes into a hibernation type state, then dies.


This is what i understood to happen. In theory the animal would "just go to sleep" and i would have thought that as it was ectothermic (assuming i have the right word and am not making myself look stupid) the freezing process would be much quicker than in a warm blooded critter, i am referring to what might happen in relatively small bodied reptiles...a large python or somesuch would theoretically last much longer in the cold temperature.

Sadly i would have thought that it would be impossible/very difficult to actually say with finality that they do not suffer...after all, few reptile keepers have the x-ray vision needed to witness the end of the animal in the freezer.

Unless my old friend starts to be keep her food down, i feel a visit to a freindly vet is in order.:(

[Smilts]

im sorry to here that such a well love animal is not doing well. I dont have any advice but it is sad to here.

[dr greenlove]

I fed my ailing pet 2 rat pups at the weekend. I thought that maybe 2 small meals for a 3 ft corn could be tolerated.

2 days later i saw rat pup No2 again.:(

Strange how she vomited that one back up but not the other that she ate at the same time (well, an hour earlier).

I am thinking that a (last:( ) visit to the vet will be happening soon.