First chameleon.. what do I need???

[oiler17]

I've decided I want to get a chameleon, but I've also read that it's not a good idea to get a chameleon as my first lizard (I've never had a lizard for a pet before). So if I can't get a chameleon right away, what's a good arboreal lizard to pick up so i can learn the ropes?

Or is it alright to go after the chameleon right away?

Also, what equipment is necessary? I was thinking about making an enclosure out of screen and some lumber, but maybe that's a bad idea. What works for you all, and what kinda expenses will I be looking at for start-up costs?

So basically.. is it alright to get a chameleon for a first lizard, if so, what kind of chameleon would be a good one to start with (I don't want a jackson's, and I think veiled would be too expensive, even though they're super cool), and what will I need to get for it, and if not, what kind of arboreal lizard is easier to care for that i can get to work my way up to a chameleon?

any help is appreciated.. thanks!

[choriona]

I got a chameleon first and a leopard gecko second. Backwards I guess, but it all worked out. Chameleons are not very forgiving in husbandry mistakes. Although they may seem fine, over time they may be withering away. That is why they are considered for the experienced owner. But if you learn the ropes BEFORE purchasing, have the enclosure all set up and working, have a thermometer and hygrometer to test you temp and humidity....there is no reason you can't start with a cham.

Try reading some of the past posts on this forum. YOu'll learn a lot about what people are using for enclosures, what they are feeding, and even how to find supplies for cheap.

Good luck. Oh, and remember - if you want an animal that you can handle a lot a chameleon may not be the best choice (unless you luck out like some of us.)

[Trace]

I usually don't recommend a chameleon as a first lizard, but if that's what you've got your heart set on, then go for it. A Leopard Gecko, or Crested Gecko or a Bearded Dragon (all good starter lizards IMHO) will bore you to tears if you compare them to a chameleon. All, well not all, you need for a chameleon is DAILY dedication to it. They require very specialized, very finicky care every single day.

You are on the right track about the caging. Chameleons need tall screened enclosures. Depending on the species you get will depend on the size of the cage. The animals you mentioned would need a cage that is approx. 2x2x4 when adults. You can build them yourself for fairly low costs. There are people who make custom enclosures or you can buy caging at your local petshop. The last 2 options I mentioned are more expensive obviously.

Chameleons do need access to UV light and heat so you will have to factor in the prices of ballasts (for the UV tube) and a dome light (for the heat source). I use regular 60watt light bulbs for heat on my cham cages and those are cheap at the local grocery store. The UV tube is not something that you can save on. Up here in Canada they run approx $40.00 for an 18" one. There are combo heat/UV bulbs you can buy and they are approx $80.00 CAD. Those bulbs are great, if you are careful with them, they last about 4 years. The UV tubes I've mentioned need to be replaced every 6 months as the UV output wanes after this point.

Some good starter chameleons are the Jacksons, the Panthers and the Veileds. These seem to be a little more tolerant of beginner mistakes and are fairly hardy. There are, of course, good and bad points to all. Veileds are pretty, dinosaur like, but generally have a crabby disposition. You may end up with a lizard that will bite your arm off when you open the cage door to clean him out. Speaking of attitude, chameleons are generally not an animal you can hold on a daily basis. They don't like it. If this is a requirement for you, then perhaps a chameleon isn't the "right" lizard.

Chameleons eat like crazy, particularly the babies, be prepared to spend some money on a weekly basis for live insects, and not just one kind. Chameleons need a wide variety of insects to remain healthy.

When you've decided on a particular species you like, please don't be shy about asking specific husbandry questions about it here. There are plenty good cham folk on this board that are more than willing to add their 2 cents to any thread. I know I've personally skipped over a lot of good information for you, but to get you started, here is a good caresheet on the Veileds: http://www.adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/chcalyptratus.html And one for the Panthers: http://www.adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/fpardalis.html

You can always look over some of the past threads in this forum for good information as well. Tips on saving money on caging and cage furniture, hydration etc has all been touched on. Not that anybody has a problem with answering your questions again, but it's another great place to start reading about the daily care they need.

Cheers!

Trace

[oiler17]

thanks for the help.. I'll ask around and keep looking to see what I can do.. I'm kinda leaning toward the panther I think

[gfisher2002]

Be sure to let us know what you find. Post some pics, we all LOVE pics.

[chamitch]

anoles would be good. as logn as you follow directions and read alot chameleon woudl eb a perfect first lizards

[meow_mix450]

Best frist lizard is a bearded dragon, but everyone has there own opinion, cause dragons dont do to well with me, but chameleon seems to do fine for me:) But if you still choose chameleons, i say go for the panther, there a little bit harder, then veiled, but there very kind, but every cham has its own personality, Prices range from 150-400, depending on the age, what kind of panther, and sometimes colour. If you choose veiled you can get them as low at 25-100, i say thats pretty cheap. If you look at the fourm products youll find a lot of stuff that will save you money. I suggest that you make a change(if your a good builder), but if you choose to buy, then thats another good choice. Trace, has said a lot of stuff, that all needs to be covered, if you stay around long enough youll find that everyone here, are very nice people, and will help you a lot, if you got questions ask away, i bet everyone here will be glad to answer them. Last thing im gonna say, to every person that gets a cham, THERE ADDICTING!!!! Tell us what your gonna do good luck

Meow

[joer]

http://www.exoticlizards.com/reptile-supplies.html


Great looking cages not bad prices at all. Great people to buy from, I bought Mine here check out my pics and look at my cage.

[ChokeOnSmoke]

Personally I would recommend a crested gecko
They are simple to care for and very neat. They come in tons of different colors and you wouldn't need to keep so many crickets around.
I just got mine though so my opinion is very biased

[meow_mix450]

did you know where you got the crested gecko and how much???

Meow

[gfisher2002]

Ya I'd like to know too.

[Neo]

i got mine by looking for some breeders on reptibid. they're generally around 45 USD unless u want a rare pattern they can get to the hundreds

[672]

My first reptile was a cham, and he was great. You just need to read all the caresheets, archived forums and all that crap and you'll be fine. As for chams being agressive, I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about, but my cham never bit me
ONCE, not once. When I took him out, which was about 1-2 times a week, if he was mad he's hiss once, change colors, and I'd put him back in right away, so he wouldn't get too stressed. I could take mine out, and he'd just climb all over the place for up to an hour! Anyways if you get everything set up right, your cham should be just fine...

[gfisher2002]

Who said chams are agressive? Some chameleons have an awful disposition and refuse to be handled. Some chameleons can be very agressive towards an unexperieced handler who persistantly tries to "pet" them. No one said they were agressive in general. My Panther goes against everything I've read about chams not liking being handled, she sits on my shoulder and free roams for hours and loves it. She craves attention, literally. But not all chams are like this. I'd say more are the opposite.

[meow_mix450]

i guess every chm hs ts on personlity

Meow

[oiler17]

thanks for all the input.. I suppose my next question is..

what does everyone mean by "mesh" when talking about enclosures? From what I've read, it seems that mesh is the way to go.. also, if anyone knows some dependable places to buy these fine little animals, feel free to post about that too..

thanks

[Trace]

Who said chams are agressive?

Probably me. :rolleyes:

No one said they were agressive in general.

Oh, that would probably be me again! :rolleyes: My door is always open to people who think they can get my Ichiro or my C.J. out of their cages without sustaining a bite. Not all chameleons are nasty, but some are.

Hey Oiler! Good choice with the Panther Chameleon! Now I have not worked with thousands of them, but I have found they tend to be a little more agreeable and tolerant of handling than the Veileds. This is not, of course, the rule but I think you'll be quite happy with a Panther Chameleon. I would also recommend getting a male as your first chameleon. They are prettier, larger and don't have the reproductive problems that the females sometimes get.

As for the "mesh"... look for PetScreen or aluminum screen at your local hardware store. Avoid fiberglass screen as it tends to break down over time and small shards come off the mesh and could possibly get imbedded in your chameleons feet. I won't be able to answer your questions about construction of said cage as I'm hopelessly inept with powertools!

Breeders down your way? Hmmm. A lot more than what I've got available to me up here in the Great White North that's for sure. Maybe some of our American members can help you out here. I do like the chameleons that the Kammers breed. Check out their site: http://www.calumma.com/ as a start. You can also see the different locales available in the Panther Chameleons. Morgana at Reptayls is another. My apologies in advance to my breeder friends down that way, everybody's name is escaping me right now. It's time for a nap for me I think.

You could also try some local herp expos as well. A lot of the breeders will bring their animals to the shows and you can take your pick and ask them pointed questions about their stock, breeders, husbandy etc. Again I'm not sure what particular show is close to you at this point.

I hope this helps in some small way.

Trace

[meow_mix450]

Try to finds a show near you

Meow

[latazyo]

haha...a reptile show near ND, you guys are comedians

[oiler17]

What do you all use to keep the humidity up? Am I fine if I just spray down the leaves a few times each day? And if I make a 4' high enclosure, what'd be the best way to orient the lights? I'm thinking about using a merc vapor bulb for heat and light, unless that'd be a bad idea. I'm unsure about what I should and shouldn't use as a substrate. If I were to have live plants, is regular soil fine, or do I want to use something else? And if I use fake plants, what's good to use for that also? Also, I should ask what kinda stress, if any, noise puts on them. I'm trying to figure out where to put the enclosure but if putting it around a speaker is going to be a terrible idea I'll have to arrange for that.

sorry if they're redundant questions or whatever, but I don't want to screw anything up. I'm planning to build the enclosure at home over Xmas break and hopefully buy the animal when I get back here (at school). Oh and I changed my mind from panther to veiled because of money issues. I've read that both are good pets, even though the veiled isn't usually as friendly. Either way I don't plan on handling it very much so I didn't think that would matter.

So any help you're willing to give me is always appreciated! Thanks a lot!

[meow_mix450]

fogger, use t in te winter, and trce told me that lee valleys sells it cheper then te pet stores, and are both pretty muc the same

Meow

[Trace]

Morning Oiler! :D Excellent questions.

What do you all use to keep the humidity up?

I usually don't have too much of a problem during the summer months with maintaining humidity. It's very dry here in the winter months so I increase the amount that I'm spraying. When it's really bad here (Jan / Feb) I do have a small humidifier that I run in the room and I also use ultrasonic foggers on the cages. Humidity is important to chameleons yes, but I think it's more important to provide water for drinking than humidity. Dehydration is one of the major causes of early death in chameleons.

And if I make a 4' high enclosure, what'd be the best way to orient the lights?

I have mine sitting on the top of the cage, usually in a corner. I will orientate the sticks so that the one corner is the highest spot he can go, and that's where I put the heat light and UV tube. I can get a pic if you want.

I'm thinking about using a merc vapor bulb for heat and light, unless that'd be a bad idea.

Not at all! I love them. Just be careful with them though... if you accidently spray them they explode and they are also VERY hot. Position this bulb far enough away from the top of the cage so your little guy won't accidently burn himself. I recommend an indoor/outdoor thermometer with probe ($10.00 or so at Home Despot) to check that basking spot temperature. Oh, and because these bulbs are usually rated at 100watts or 160watts, you will have to look for a dome fixture with a ceramic element that can withstand the heat they give off. A regular plastic dome fixture will melt and burn down your house.

I'm unsure about what I should and shouldn't use as a substrate.

Personally I don't use anything in the bottom of my cages for the fact that they might accidently ingest substrate when they "zap" bugs. Other members may comment here, some do use newspaper, towels, sphagnum moss without too much problems. Avoid barks, mulches and the like.

If I were to have live plants, is regular soil fine, or do I want to use something else?

Regular soil is fine. I don't have my plants planted persay in my cages. They sit in pots at the bottom of the enclosure. What I have done, is put small rocks over the top of the exposed soil so they don't eat it. The rocks are small enough to fit them in puzzle wise in the pot, yet not small enough that they can eat them.

And if I use fake plants, what's good to use for that also?

Fake plants are fine, real ones are better. Real ones tend to hold the humidity up for longer periods then fake ones. I use a combination of both in my bigger cages for cover. When selecting fake plants, look for ones that are green plastic, not dyed green as the dye comes off during misting and the chameleon may drink that. Wash any fake and real plants before putting them in the cage, just in case.

Also, I should ask what kinda stress, if any, noise puts on them.

Realistically they don't hear all that well. Through evolution they have lost their external ears but they do have rudimentry ear canal in their heads. He might not have a problem being in the same room as your stereo sound wise, but he might not like being in the room because of the heavy traffic. You'll have to see about that. As mentioned previously, all chameleons have different personalities. Mine range from uber-friendly to uber-nasty. My friendly ones are in this room (with the stereo) so they can see me and interact with me while the idiots are in the quiet chameleon room.

sorry if they're redundant questions or whatever,

Hey, I'd rather you ask then not at all! The more prepared you can be ahead of time, the happier your chameleon will be. I have also noticed that you have been reading some of the past threads in this forum and that's fantastic.

Cheers!

Trace

[latazyo]

what about regular potting soil for the plants, it's impossible for me to get any topsoil here in ND?

[Trace]

Originally posted by latazyo
what about regular potting soil for the plants, it's impossible for me to get any topsoil here in ND?

Sorry guys, I should have been more specific when I went on my rant about soils. Regular potting soil is fine and what I use for the potted plants in my arboreal chameleon cages. I buy the no name stuff from Loblaws or Home Despot or WalMart... wherever it's cheap and where I happen to be at the time. Some of the cheaper brands do have additives like perlite, so that is why I cover the exposed soil with small rocks so the chams don't accidently zap it and eat it.

For my terrestrial chameleons I went and bought a fancy bag of dirt with no additives. These guys live on the ground, or close to it, and I didn't want them to pick up the bits of perlite when they ate.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

Trace