Would you guys want to buy beardies from this guy???

[Cornelsworld]

I couldn't believe his available page. Obviously he is doing something wrong. Just about every beardie on the page is missing a foot, or a leg or a tail. This is just about as bad as the guy selling babies on k i n g s n a k e classifieds by displaying the dead rozen father to show the colour. I can't believe some people are allowed to own pets, let alone breed them.

http://www.dragonaddict.com/available.htm

[snakedude_03]

whoa.. thats pretty sad....i cant believe there are people out there like these..

[ReneeB]

OMG that's horrible! never mind his prices are ridiculous!

[McPatch]

Thats terrible .How many accidents did this guy have.If this is what he is showing as his good animals imagine what things are like behind the scenes.Unreal

[sparkon16]

those are the kinda ppl i would like to be left alone with for 2 minutes while i beat the cr&* out of them

[SilverTongue]

Yeah everyone sign his guestbook!

http://www.dragonaddict.com/guestbook/addguest.html

[Cornelsworld]

I added my comments. I only went to that one page before. I hope at least some of them find a better life with someone else.

Greg

[backdraft1320]

That was sick I left him a nice little threat and suggest everybody else do the same just for ****z and giggles, maybe even ban him from this site if he ever joins.

[Richard Welter]

I don't think threaten this breeder is going to help, and you could get in trouble for it. Just do what I do, if you find a bad breeder don't refer people to him and don't work with them on anything. Post a thread on the board of inquiry and expose the breeder/person for who they are. Just my two sense. Thanks Richard Welter

P.S. If you cut out the bad breeder and keep working with the goods ones you get better animals and it benifts everyone.:)

[Uffern]

I don't mean to take an elitist tone, but I wonder how many of you actually breed bearded dragons in any amount. Let's say this guy makes his living off of this. He probably has at least 30 breeders. To be conservative, lets say that 10 are males, 20 females. In a year, each female drops four clutches. Out of each clutch only 15 hatch. 20 x 4 x 15 = 1200. So for arguements sake, let's say that he hatches out 1200 babies per year. If only 20 lose a foot or tail due to eating accidents, I'd say he is doing pretty good. If any of you have had 60 - 80+ babies at once, you will realize that you can't spend 10 mins with each dragon every day or house each one individually. Accidents do happen when babies eat. A hatchling or even a juvinile can die from losing a foot. Dragon Addict may have some with missing feet, but bear in mind that that is something which requires vet attention, not to mention individual care for the lizard with at least neosporin. The fact that these babies are alive and growing is itself a testament to dragon addict's care and work ethic, as opposed to him just letting them die.

I have never done business with dragon addict, nor have I ever even spoken to him. If he only has one female that he breeds, then yes, I'd say he is doing something wrong. If he has many many females that he breeds, then some accidents are to be expected. I, personally, have never had a beardie lose a foot, but I have had a few that lost parts of their tails due to feeding mishaps.

Accidents can happen, expecially with uncoordinated hatchlings. He could have just tossed them in the freezer when found with a missing foot, but instead (hopefully) they were seperated and nursed to health. For a small dragon, that kind of blood loss is very serious, and this is not something they can just pull through. Those beardies with missing feet are alive because DA kept them alive.

[Behrherp]

Ya accidents do happen but more than half of his dragons have defects and anyone wanting to buy a dragon that was born with no foot is just stupid unless they're looking to start a sick 3 legged dragon project.

[Uffern]

The dragons he had on his site (as opposed to however many dragons he has sold from those clutches) were missing parts, which is relatively unimportant to someone who is planning on using it as a breeder. (depending on the extent of loss) I also doubt that they were all born missing parts. And another point, I once had a two legged dragon hatch, posted pics on KS, and received several emails asking if I was willing to sell him. So even if these dragons were hatched missing parts, the demand for them as pets is there.

Just for fun, let's assume that they were hatched out missing parts. Now let's say that -you- yourself have between 100 - 150 babies a year. How many do you think would be malformed or stillborn? How many completely healthy?

As I said before (which you must have missed), if he hatches out potentially thousands of dragons a year and only has a dozen or so that have injuries, he is doing a good job. I wonder would you do as well?

[Richard Welter]

I think until we know how many beared dragons and other reptiles this person or person hatch out, you can't assume he or she is a good breeder or not. You could have one pair of dragons and give off 20-80 eggs, or you could have 50 pairs of dragons that will give you 20-80 eggs, if the babies are deformed then the breeder should check his or her husbandy. They should aslo check the bloodlines of the dragons. I now a few people that inbread there dragons and they will do it for 1-7 generations and in the long run you get bad looking and deformed animals that are not pure. On the other hand if this person or persons has hatched out 1000 babies this year and only has a problem with a dozen babies then I will forgive that any day. But I will not forgive the mixing and inbreading of the same bloodlines. I am a emerald guy, and when I look for a emerald or a group of them I trace the bloodline back as far as I can to ensure I get clean animals and don't have to worrie about missing body parts. Now if I put to male emeralds together and they cut each others eyes out then that is my fault and I will deal with that. Not to run all over here but why does the person or person who breed these dragons come foward and give his or her voice in this engagement. Just my ideas Richard Welter

[Cornelsworld]

I only started this thread because when I looked on his for sale page all of the beardies except for one had a defect. Didn't seem like a good ratio, but I guess if you have tons of breeders and these were a select few out of many that wouldn't be as bad as his for sale page showed. I'm not sure what scale he is breeding, but by that for sale page and the problem. Ufferen if he e-mails you and explains himself let us know what he says. He said somewhere that it was due to his friend who owned snakes and didn't deal with beardies at all and obviously didn't care for them properly. I still wouldn't buy from someone like him judging by the pics I saw on his for sale page.

Greg

[Uffern]

I agree on the inbreeding thing. I never do it under any circumstances. Just FYI, if any of you want to buy a group of hatchlings for eventual breeding, don't buy them from Heavenly Herps, and they sell clutchmates as breeding groups. As far as getting info from Dragon Addict, I have tried to contact him via KS bd forum, but have not received a reply. If I get any info I will post it here asap.

[Richard Welter]

One last point, I do think you can buy a pair of babies from one clutch and raise them up. You should make sure that you buy another pair from someone else and make sure the bloodlines are different and then crosse them. You have some good points Uffern, but I don't think you can single out any pet store (thats where fights on forums start). You are right thou, and if you start breeding you should make sure you have perfect animals to carry out the project with. When I sell an animal I make sure that I inform the person of everything, just because it could bit you in the butt later (bad reputation) To me the the perfect animal is one of great color, perfect body and size, and one that is of different blood then the ones you have. Thanks Richard Welter

[Uffern]

The reason I said Heavenly Herps is because they have advertised on KS that the 1.2 hatcgling groups they were selling as breeder groups were siblings. Yes, raising siblings together is fine, but when someone buys a 1.2 group advertised as a breeder group, they shouldn't have to buy more beardies to avoid inbreeding. If a professional outfit were selling breeding groups, they would have different bloodlines available. On the other hand, you are right, this isn't the forum for such matters.

[Richard Welter]

Hey Uffern keep in mind that if you have 100 people selling reptile, it is my experience that 95 of them are full of it. They are trying to get animals out and buy knew ones time and time again. Thats why when I go to breed my veilds I have a 4.5 group so I can offer different bloodlines. When I am done collecting emeralds in about 2007. I plan on having a group of about 5.8 northerns by the end of march. And to have a 2.2 group of basins and 1.2 of new local. Thanks Richard Welter

[Uffern]

If you count petstores in that calculation then I agree. If it is just breeders, then I think the percentage is somewhere between 50% - 60%. (maybe it is different for snakes, I don't know) THat is a good thing to keep in mind if you don't know who the more reputable breeders are. It pays to shop around and compare notes at valuable online resources such as the Canadian BOI here at Ssnakess or the American BOI at Faunaclassifieds. (just a public service announcement for those who don't know)

[lanalizard]

hehe that IS pretty sad.