OMFG the level of neglect amazes me!

[Wuntu Menny]

Pet store rant of the week:

For those of you from Calgary and area, I'm sure you're familiar with it. For liability reasons, I'll call them "Riverbottom Terrariums".

I just stopped in to see if the latest copy of Reptiles had arrived yet and to survey the specimens for sale. Things had been slowly improving there lately as some more knowledgeable folks had been looking after the herps. Unfortunately, and not surprisingly I might add, they are no longer emloyed there.

I see a blue tongue skink that has endured several mite infestations in the past now suffering from some sort of respiratory malady. Mucous encrusting one nostril, virtually constant sneezing, and mouth breathing to boot. It also had some sort of material encrusted around one ear opening almost totally occluding it.

Then I look in the cage holding the frog eyed geckos. Hmm, that one in the front appears to have been dead for a long time. It was completely dessicated and decomposing, basically a skeleton with skin draped over it. Nice display!! When brought to the attention of the staff, she hollers to her subordinate to "cleanup in aisle one!" He responds that he noticed that the other day.
Uh huh...

I hang a left to view the new "wall of death". (They used to have a different area that held this title, but after rearranging the layout its now on the opposite side of the room. Look at all the pretty little leopard geckos! My, they haven't really grown at all since they were purchased at the show, have they? At this point, I should probably tell you that these gex were obtained at a price so low you can't even imagine. Most of them are marked up 1000% or better! No, that figure is not an exaggeration.

Anyhoo, these poor animals are packed 10-12 to a cage with no more floor space than a 2.5 gal tank on a variety of substrates. Most notably aspen shavings, orchid bark, and fine sand. These are all juvenile gex and they're being fed free range with grossly oversized crix. I watch as one particularly emaciated gecko attempts to choke down a cricket nearly twice the size of his head. His tail is so thin I can count the vertebrae and his tiny belly is concave. In the next compartment is a specimen on bark with a fat, distended belly and almost nothing left of his tail. I wonder how much bark will be removed from his gut at the necropsy.

I bring this to the attention of the same indifferent primate and she gives me "I'll keep that in mind" in the most condescending, snide tone of voice you can imagine. It took every ounce of self control not to put her through a wall at that point.

I've railed about these guys in the past, both to receptive forum readers as well as the authorities, to no avail. I'm done with them now. I've given them too many chances in the past and they've failed miserably every time. I absolutely will not set foot in this establishment again and will advise others to do the same. All I can do now is hope a meteor drops on them as soon as possible, it appears to be the only solution.

WM

[reverendsterlin]

and capitalists keep on sucking you money

[Invictus]

Originally posted by Wuntu Menny
Things had been slowly improving there lately as some more knowledgeable folks had been looking after the herps. Unfortunately, and not surprisingly I might add, they are no longer emloyed there.

Hmmmmm...... not that I know who these 2 people might be, but.... let's just say I very much ummm... relate to this story.

"those 2 people" we'll call them, were fishing out about 2 dead animals PER DAY in that mite infested outhouse. Those 2 people cared enough about the herps to spend a little bit of extra time cleaning them, urging the owner to get more enclosures on the go especially for the gex, and were literally ready to liquidate the ENTIRE stock of gex, just to get them out of there. But, as you said, things were slowly improving. Until "those 2 people" got unceremoniously dismissed, (not to mention basically accused of stealing herps) and told that they were "just not fitting into the mold that they wanted." I'll tell you what the mold is - it's growing inside the Skink's lungs as we speak.

Added to which, let's talk about the FIVE BOAS, ranging from 3 to 7 feet, that share ONE enclosure.

Added to which also, let's talk about the BCI that's been quarantined in the back because he's suffering from liver diease. Let's talk about the king snake they have in the back that is in an aquarium that is in the midst of chemical fumes, a leaky roof, and a water purifier that gives off what smells like raw lead. And don't even get me started about the fact that when they import wild caught specimens (which is 90% of their business) there is ZERO quarantining.

"Those two people" gave it an honest effort, and weren't really expecting a single thing to change, but at least while they were there, the herps were clean, and the humidity lovers were misted.

"Those two people" are currently looking for ways to provide Calgary and area herp enthusiasts with an alternative to Riverbottom Terrariums. They are looking for rat suppliers, even in the states, and are considering getting into wholesaleing crickets as well. I also urge ANYONE in the Calgary area to stay away from this mite infested outhouse, and take your business to a place that actually gives a damn about the herps. (Pretty soon that will be "Those two people's" house.)

"Those two" wish to thank you for your vote of confidence, Lowell. They tried.

[Bartman]

the place sounds like a herp concentration camp....just sick

[Reptiles4ever]

isnt there anything we can do

[Wuntu Menny]

We've been trying for years, but until we can convince officials to incorporate herps under the same umbrella as the rest of the "pets" out there, we're S.O.L.

Right now, the government is too busy listening to the knee jerk reactionaries that are attempting to have all exotics banned to even consider providing them with equal rights. I say simply stay away from these places, take your business elsewhere, and hurt them the only way they feel it: financially. If its no longer profitable for them to exploit the animals in this fashion, hopefully they will abandon the enterprise.

WM

[SerpentLust]

God that's sick...makes me really want to start up with private breeding and such, although that will have to wait a few years for me *pout*

It sickens me how low people really are sometimes.

Jenn

[Neo]

thats the reason why i only go to pet stores for supplies. a pet store over here has an enclosure for leos w/ one hide in the center under a heat lamp also in the center housing leos and fat tailed geckos. i try not to imagine all the fighting those 2 species definately undergo every night.

[Wilma]

Thats so sad... man, I just want to love my geckos and thank god they aren't in a situation like that! I have to admit I was always a primarly mammal enthusiast before a few years ago... now I have a nice little collection of reptiles and love them. Even though they may not get attached to you like cats, dogs, rats, etc. they suffer and my heart goes out to all of them. I went to one store recently where, I wish I knew the type of lizard... but they had it housed with "her baby" who was about 800% SMALLER and I was told "there hasn't been a problem yet" , and the poor geckos housed 20 to a ten gallon enclosure on sand with one hide and a dish of water... so many tailess leos!
*sigh* I WISH the authorities would take a better interest in the welfare of animals.

[Invictus]

What would be really nice (and this is wishful thinking, I know) is if all of the local breeders who sell their stock to the Mite Pit would begin refusing to send their herps into hell. But, I suppose business is business, and if someone wants to buy your herps, well... who's going to say no to money? But once a disease rips through that place (and with all the WC stuff in there, it WILL, it's only a matter of time), it would be nice if there were no one around to replenish their stock.

[Neo]

someone should rob the store and leave a hate note in the cash register

[CDN-Cresties]

Invictus has a very good point, breeders must stop selling their offspring to places such as these.

-Steve-

[JeffT]

Good point Invictus, if people would put lives before cash then maby it WOULD go out of business. Ive been there several times and its not at the top of my list either. I also know who these "two people" are and it's good they're trying to turn things around.

Jeff

[Invictus]

Jeff - You must read the post, young lad. These "two people" were unfairly dismissed because "things weren't getting done." Now I fear very little, if anything, will change. We have to hit them where it counts - and make sure their reptile division is no longer profitable.

[ChristinaM]

Unfortunately this is not the only place that does that. I wish it didn't exist, but it does.

I had the unfortunate experience of being subjected to this ***** as well.

This is what happened, copied from a post I made on a diffrent board. It was after the St.Jacobs show.


****very descriptive post....graphic....sad.....****

First off, I will not be mentionning any names.

Slight history about me, I am a fish addict. There is one store in
the city that I will buy from, if I can't get it here. It is NOT a
big chain store. I've always been happy with my fishies from there,
and love most of the staff. I often go in to just browse if I happen
to be in that neighbourhood.

It is also where I got my first dragon.

Yesterday, I was in that neighbourhood dropping off a friend after an
out of town reptile show. So of course, needing to feed my addiction
I stopped in.

Walked in, and walked down the reptile aisle to get towards the
fishies. Of course I always look at the herps while I'm there.
Strolled towards the beardies and they had 2 adults in. Pretty nice
looking, although in need of some water and weight gain.

The babies are below them (yes seperated from the others). I glance
down to look. Usually it is a nice site. Not this time. First thing I
see on a quick glance is a really dark, shrunken baby. HUH?????? I
squat and look closer. OMG!!!!!!!! It was so dark because it was
dead. It's was so skinny, the bones were showing. It did NOT look
like it just died. Looked like it was there for at least a day.
Looking around the cage, more dead. One baby had this HUGELY bloated
tummy, eyes slightly open, dead. Another skinny one, I thought dead
too but it moved very slightly. Then the kicker. I was watching one
baby who was moving a bit, as I watched it, the movement were NOT
normal. He started to convulse, twitch....I wanted to tear my eyes
away but I swear that dragon was watching me. Just about to get up,
he convulsed once more and lay still. He died right in front of my
eyes.

Got up, looked for the fish guy who I know the best, and he asked if
I needed any fish, I said no but your bearded dragons some are dead.
He was astounded and stepped away from a bunch of other customers to
check. He was as disgusted as I was. He is very prideful in his fish,
the reptile corner is not his corner. I told him my disgust, and he
agreed. Got the reptile girl, who removed all the babies. 6 babies 3
were dead, 2 were dying, 1 seemed ok. As she walked off with them,
she said to the fish guy, it was the mealworms. Someone fed them
mealworms and they chewed through their stomachs.

I walked out of the store, tears rolling down my face.

They was tons of mealworms in the tank. TONS. There was feces
composed entirely of mealworms, nowhere near properly digested. A
tankful of unnessecary death.
I have never felt as awful, as disgusted (I felt like vomitting).

I have only read about things like this. I never expected to ever see
them.

[ChristinaM]

btw: the reptile girl muttered " the mealworms ate through there stomachs" that's why they died.

blah.....show's the level of knowledge eh. :(

[python_diva_06]

***** LIKE THAT JUST NEEDS TO STOP! OMFG!!! I WISH PET SHOPS ACTED 5% AS RESPONSIBLE AS THEY THINK THEY ARE!!! Thankfully i have a good (but rather small) herp section at my local pet shop...all the animals look healthy and there aren't any signs of mites...they really seem to care about the herps too, i recently got a BTS from there and i needed to pick up a new 10 gal tank lid for my Cali.king's set up and i think they were under the impression that i was putting my BTS in a 10. gal (BTW-NO!) and i was really impressed with the amount of consern they were showing...i wish all pet shops even remotely resimbaled this one!

ps. this is a privetely owned pet shop NOT a chain...

[Wuntu Menny]

There are a few exceptional stores out there that genuinely seem to give a rat's glutes about the welfare of their stock. One of the best (worst) double standards around here is the local bigbox chain that regularly offends almost as bad as my original post. They actually have the gall to air TV commercials that pat themselves on the back for caring for sick or unwanted mammals.

At one point the camera zooms in on a dead puppy lying in a pile of trash to really generate some sympathy for their cause. The funny thing is, that shot of the puppy is frequently mirrored in their own herp depts and they honestly don't care one bit.

WM

[TheRedDragon]

Oh, Invictus, you forgot the poor WC Savannah Monitors that were taken in. The poor things didn't have enough energy to move let alone open their eyes.

Then there was the Chinese Water dragons that are going to die either from the lack of required humidity, the mouth rout, or the respitory infections that they're suffering from; whatever gets to them first. One of those "two people" actually held one of them, and it was so sick that it couldn't even open its eyes or even attempt to get away from them. They removed scabs from its face and tail and applied Polysporin to the wounds. Its mouth was gaping constantly...it was horrible.

Oh, and the enclosure that Invictus mentioned that is housing 5 boas? Yeah, it's worse than that. One of those "two people" was cleaning the enclosure only to find it CRAWLING with mites.

Yeah, those "two people" also helped switch most of those poor snakes over to newspaper and dust them all with mite powder (which I doubt does anything) to try an control the mite outbreak throughout the reptile room.

Those "two people" where always trying to figure out if the horrid stench in the reptile room was coming from the reptiles that were dropping like flies, the rejected prey items that were rotting in the reptile's enclosures, or the fact that all of the reptiles are wading in their own feces.

Believe me, I'm looking elsewhere to get crickets and I'm not selling anything to that store; I refuse to support it in any shape or form.

[Invictus]

Yeah, or the Sulcatta whose dorsal pyramiding made it look a g*d damn stegasaurus, or the beardies dropping like flies, or the wild caught Orange Uromastyx that was rotting in its cage for 3 days (not coincidentally on the caring peoples' days OFF, I might add) before anyone bothered to fish it out, the 2 baby bearded dragons that died from lord knows what, the frogs rotting in their pathetic cages, the 4 foot boas being housed in critter keepers, if they're not being housed with an extremely dominant 7 foot boa that likes to occupy the ENTIRE water dish, ensuring that no other boas can drink, and oh lord, where else shall I go from here.... OH YES, the 7 Calotes (Japaluras) that are sharing one critter keeper, or the 20 iguanas that are split among TWO enclosures measuring 2 x 2 x 2.

THIS PLACE HAS GOT TO GO.

[maiden_canada]

haha and i thought the petstores in victoria are bad. one time here i asked someone what happened to all their baby chameleons and he said they died.

[Invictus]

haha? What about this is funny?

[ReptiZone]

If you think that is bad you should all come up and spend a weekend at my place in montreal. I have seen a few regulare Pet stores take better care of Herp then "One" perticulare reptile only specialty shop witch will remain name less. Do to the fact that the owner is on this site and I am not in the mood to get a nother thretaning call tomarow morning. LOL

I will keep the details to my slef lets just put it this way I have never seen a pet store of any kind licend to uthanise animals. and the best thing this company ever did for there animals was put them in a freezer. Note that is the best thing they did I will not get into how poor the animal care was.

The most marking thing that ever hapend to me while I was there was having a 5 foot iguana jump at me to save it's life.

Let me explain:

I am sure you have all done this thah out your rodents for a feeding day and at the end of the day re freeze your left overs till trash day so you don't stink up the whole house or herp room.
well no invision the end of your day geting ready to toss you wast in the apropriat area in the freezer but when you crack open the ice box a frozen godzila is trying to climb your body to escape b4 you even realise it was in there now that will wake you up for the rest of the evaning. Well I said my pice.

but let it be noted that this was not just any good old fasion Pet store this was a "Reptile specialty shop" you can draw your own conclusions.

[sketchy4]

wait a minute? your saying they had an igg (when you said godzilla an iguana came to mind) in a freezer? now what is wrong with the picture there? some sick f^$#ing people in ths world. they need to have like a test to take to work at a petshop or something. that way they hire some people that atleast know how to care of the animals.

there is a pet shop around here in Dayton OH that actually have some smart employees. i talked to the guy running the herp and fish section of the store and he was like 24 and actually knows ALOT about the animals. i talked with him for a while before having to leave. he told me that before he started working here that alot of the herps were on sand and didnt have the proper housing and lighting. he actually spent over$500 out of his own pocket to make the enclosures better and cleans out every single one himself. that is the only pet store i go to. comes to show some people that work at the pet stores actually know a thing or two about the animals.

[stevesemerko]

I have had the same sort of experiences. Due to these experiences I have vowed that when I do breed my animals they do not go to any pet store unless I personally deem it acceptable and from the ones I have seen it won't happen too often. This place in Calgary sounds just HORRIFYING! I would personally like to thank "those two people" for actually making a difference (even if only for a short while). I don't know how these stores can just hire any idiot who wants a job and pass up (or dismiss) qualified and caring individuals trying to provide people with an animal they can enjoy for 10+ years instead of 10 minutes!

Steve

[Bighead]

A couple things: I just started working at a Petsmart in Bellingham (Washington). I'm not patting myself on the back here, because I just started there, but I wanted you guys to know that at least one of these big chain stores really cares more about the animals than they care about selling them. A customer just returned a guinea pig that they let run around on their kitchen table until it jumped off and broke it's leg. We wouldn't have taken it back, but we knew they would just "euthanize" it if we didn't. We spent over $1000 after x-rays, etc. to put a cast on this poor little $20 guinea pig. We have also had an anorexic russian tortoise at a reptile specialist vet for 3 months. Not sure what that will cost, but it will definitely be more than the cost of the tortoise. We mist all the tropical herp enclosures 4x per day and sign off on a sheet. The one thing that does suck that I couldn't do anything about is, most of the enclosures are only 15 gallons, which is ok for some, but we have a bunch of anoles in one and it's definitely overcrowded. Most of them are ok though. We have a gargoyle gecko on a 20 gal. vertical and a pair of small red-eared sliders and an 80 gallon.
I know not all of the Petsmart stores aren't like this too. The one nearest to me seems to lack a true reptile expert and it shows a little bit, but the animals don't seem to be in any danger. Just thought I'd try to add a little hope out there.

Are there any of you who know of a really good reptile store other than breeders? Any in BC?

If you feel like reading another horror story, I'll post one about a store I saw a couple weeks ago below.

[Bighead]

P.S. The Guinea Pig customer is now blacklisted from buying live animals, including fish.

[Bighead]

Thought I'd add another quick story- Theres a place i just visited in seattle calle "fin and feather." I went to check it out a couple weks ago and the 1st thing i saw was a baby corn snake crawling across the floor. I wouldn't have noticed it, but there was a rabbit hopping after it looking very interested (probably b/c it didn't have food or water anywhere that i could see). I picked it up and gave it to the lady. She said she knocked over a tub(?) of them and couldn't remember how many were in there. Their beardie enclosure was big (at least 200gal), but there was no UV lights and an old pile of wilted lettuce in one corner and no water dish. There was a Red-footed tortoise and what i think was a russian tortoise in a 40 gallon tank, both had approx. 10" diameter shells, no food, and BROWN water. I pointed this out and the lady said "oh, yeah. i keep forgetting to feed those guys. they're my favorite" She then threw in a head of lettuce and they went after it. There were numerous corn, king, boa and ball python tanks. In the half that still had water, it was brown. I don't even know how a water dish just goes brown, but i swear, all of them were like that. There was a red-eyed tree frog tank that was so dirty, i couldn't even tell if they actually had red eyes. There was a chameleon enclosure with a half dead, dried up ficus tree in it and a very skinny, dried up male veiled. that's pretty much it. no uvb lights to be seen, and only dead crickets in any of the cages. If you are ever in the area, I encourage you to see for yourself and give them a few words as well. Oh, the smell of ammonia was enough to make me put my had over my face as soon as I walked into the store.

[ChristinaM]

I have to say, some of these are absolutely disgusting. Never will animal cruelty cease to amaze me. How people can do this is way beyond my understanding. :(

[Vengeance]

Such is the nature of the corporate machine. Animal welfare takes no precedent over the all mighty dollar. For the big box stores it costs more money to hire competent staff and take proper care of their animals then it does to hire incompetent staff and take sub par care of their animals. Also because there are no laws outlining neglect when it comes to Herp's there isn't really much anyone can do other then Boycott any of the stores that treat their animals in this manner. Problem is since 85% of herps bought from the Big Box store's is usually the uninformed window shopper who thinks it would be cool to have the lizard with the big horns or the snake with the pretty colors, unless their are some strict guidelines that are enforced through hefty fines (the same kinda fines that are usually associated with mammal mistreatment) then this kind of thing will continue.

[Soul_Reaper]

Well first of all i would like to congratulate "those 2 people" who did their best to improve the quality of life of the animals, even though you didn't achieve your goals, you tried and that counts a lot. Thumbs up.

As for the Pet Store horror stories, i don't think i have come across one as bad as the one you guys are talking about here thankfuly. But unfortunately we can't rely on the government or anyone else to help us out. The way i see it, the best weapon against this sort of tirany is BOYCOTT. If we can't shut them down by law let's ruin their business by spreading the word...i believe that's the only thing we can do at the moment.

[Vengeance]

Is their a reason why we can't know the names of said Pet Stores? I'm all for boycotting but without the names of the chain kinda in the dark on who not to buy from anymore.

[ChristinaM]

I think publicly posting the names would be grounds for a possible slander suit. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm thinking. However, I can't see why one could not privately talk about XXX store in a private conversation, and it gets passed on. I've told locals about the experience I had...but done so in private conversations.

[Big Mike]

The establishment in question sound horrible but unfortunately not all that uncommon. It really is unfortunate that the "authorities" do not seem to care.

I would suggest a campaign of some kind. Maybe get TARAS involved. Letters to the store (we know that won't help), letters to SPCA (might help but good luck), letters to the city (like they care), letters to the media. Hope for some reporter to take up the cause and do and an expose type story. Pictures could be worth the proverbial thousands of words in this case. It's one thing for authorities to ignore someone telling them about bad conditions. It's another thing to ignore proof of neglect, especially if the media is involved.

[Vengeance]

In cases of neglect like this sometimes even pictures won't do it. You would have to build a strong and very well documented case. If you just have a few pictures of some underf ed or dead animals all the store has to say is they just received that shipment in and they were delivered like that, that are completly outraged and are no longer useing that supplier. There case closed and everyone forgets. Someone would have to create like a month long journal with the slow degerdation of the animals and complie a time line from when they were recived till when they die due to neglect from the store.

[latazyo]

your petsmart might be a decent reptile place, but they are fairly consistent terrible fish places and if they can't buy live animals, they better not be able to buy fish

fish neglect is as bad as anything else

spreading the word is pretty much the only thing you can do, I don't know what laws are up in Canada, but from what I hear on this site, the involvement of legal agencies in helping with reptile cruelty is terrible

any animal neglect in my area is usually dealt with very seriously, P*t*os here in the US have a bad rap and there are many websites devoted to letting people know the conditions that some locations put their animals in

it is a shame that no govt agency up there takes responsibility for all animals and not just dogs and cats

[Wuntu Menny]

None of this is of any worth until either the wording of the act is altered to specifically incorporate exotics, or until the authorities charged with enforcing it decide to apply the standards universally and without selective interpretation.

No media will touch the issue as it may wind up biting them in court. Additionally, most bigbox chains have bigbox ad campaigns running with the same media companies. They won't jeopardize their ad $$ for the sake of a few starving herps.

BigMike: TARAS has tried to intervene in the past, but the results have been the same. Right now they are more of a hobbiest's club than a political entity anyway.

Vengeance: I'd love to post names, but outside of a legitimate BOI, I leave myself and this site wide open to legal ramifications. Unfortunately the Cdn BOI that was temporarily provided on faunaclass. has been converted to "read only" undoubtedly due to abuse and misuse.

WM

[UpscaleBoas]

wow...i read every word of this post.......its been a while........as an ex-manager of a pet store..with a good selection of rept. i can say more then anything ..money talks..my coustomers where die hard herper's (as am i) and would not tolerate anything out of place including a water dish with substrate in it.........i had my staff spend 75% of there time just cleaning and teaching them to multi task...clean and sell at the same time...(other 25%was stocking shelves.) I do exactly what my coustomers did before i started there..........if things are not correct i will advise the owner...don't bother with mangers..most don't care....explain to the owner not only your concern but your worth to the store...explain to them not that you have a big collection but tall the consumable goods you by from them.....consumable goods like calcium powder have have huge profit margins......and explain that all biz will be lost by you and your friends if things are not corrected now.......they will move to get this done because they not only don't want to lose your biz but because they don't have to do it they will instruct some underling to do it now....talk regulary with the owner and give feed back..they will respond..if they don't walk away and buy nothing from them....sorry for writing so much..but i did read everyone elses rants.....thanks

[Bighead]

latazyo: I agree completely with you about the fish thing. Some people seem to see fish as dispensible animals and it disgusts me. People get annoyed with me on a daily basis when I tell them their goldfish will die if they keep it in a bowl. I hear things like "I've had mine since January" or "My friend so-and-so had a goldfish in a bowl for two years before it died" and then they look at me like I'm an idiot when I tell them that they have 20 year lifespans and one 12 cent comet needs a 20 gallon tank with a powerful filter to live a full life. Oh, thought I'd add one more thing about Petsmart. They have a "Vet Assured" program where all of their small animal and fish breeders are screened by vets on a regular basis to ensure that the facilities are sanitary, not over crowded, and free of disease. All of the fish come from tropical fish farms in Florida where almost every other pet store in the US and Canada get their fish. 90% of the fishes Petsmart gets are captive bred and the other 10% are usually the ones that they haven't had success breeding in captivity. You can see a tour of the farms at http://www.diveintofish.com/tour_farm.htm
It's kind of for kids, but if you feel like checking it out... There is also a phone number in every store on every habitat (at least there should be) that you can call if you feel that the conditions are less than ideal. If it is a valid complaint, the store IS notified and something will be done about it. We were called one time because a customer called reporting that there were no water dishes in the reptile enclosures. It turned out that it was right before we closed and all the dishes were being sanitized in back (which we do 2x per day).

Again, I know that this store is not necessarily an indication of every Petsmart. With over 800 stores, I wouldn't doubt that there are some with unacceptable conditions and I encourage all of you if you see this to be the case to speak with the specialty manager (all fish, reptiles, small animals, birds) and/or the store director in addition to calling the number I talked about. You may also be able to get in touch with a regional specialty manager if you see unacceptable conditions in more than one store. Thanks for reading :)

[Tiliqua]

Originally posted by Bichiraddict
I think publicly posting the names would be grounds for a possible slander suit. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm thinking. However, I can't see why one could not privately talk about XXX store in a private conversation, and it gets passed on. I've told locals about the experience I had...but done so in private conversations.


Actually, from a legal standpoint, absolute truth is a defense of liabel (read slander). That being, if it is an exageration, a crime is committed. If events are the truth, there is zero ability to sue, or have criminal charges brought.

Cheers.

[latazyo]

Originally posted by Bighead
[B]latazyo: I agree completely with you about the fish thing. Some people seem to see fish as dispensible animals and it disgusts me. People get annoyed with me on a daily basis when I tell them their goldfish will die if they keep it in a bowl. I hear things like "I've had mine since January" or "My friend so-and-so had a goldfish in a bowl for two years before it died"

same here, they just don't understand

[Wuntu Menny]

Anyone that's interested in reading the response of the owner of this establishment can check the link:

http://www.cornelsworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=313

Bear in mind that my original account of the conditions was entirely factual and not exaggerated in any way. If anything, my description was understated as I'm not very experienced with snakes and therefore not qualified to issue advice or opinion on 75% of the animals in the store.

WM

[Tim and Julie B]

Believe me, I know you are not one to over-exaggerate and I am not surprised that Mr. Woo back-peddled his arse six ways from Sunday! I think it is a big step that he knows people are appauled by his store's conditions. Perhaps his store has a snowball's chance in Haydes of cleaning up thier act and actually taking the advice they are given. It sickens me when pet store owners only care for thier furry pets, but refuse to do the same for exotics. Hopefully people will stay away from that place. Seems to me he's in it to turn a fast buck. Hey, he brought it up, not anyone else! I hope to own a clean, reliable pet store one day. Until then, I'll just keep my herps and give my head a good shake when I hear the usual crap out of pet store employees mouths. Take care,

Julie

[Debani]

Well,

I work at a privately owned Pet Store, run by huge assholes.

Anyhow, I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself when I say I am not totally educated on all of the reptiles that enter the store. But, I do try my best to maintain them to the best of my ability.

I have been reading forums here, on reptiles that we have at our store.

Just on a note about mites. Most Pet Store employee's like myself don't know that some types of Bark (Forest Bark) come infested with mites. Without knowing this, we use the bark and our lizards get mites.

So it's not entirely the people who work there's fault. Its the lack of education from managers and owners. But, you may be thinking, its the employee's responsibility to read up and get informed.

We're trying! I have worked there for 13 months now, and I know a heck of alot more than when I started!!

- Nick:cool:

[Invictus]

Good for you Nick. Hopefully the owners won't terminate you like they did me in my town.

Oh, and if anyone's interested, I left a SCATHING reply to the owner's pathetic little self-gratified rant. I'm expecting it to be deleted, since most negative free expressions these days are, so read it while you can!

[brandi]

Wow.... I just read every single post in this thread and I am just in tears. What you have described I see and deal with every day. I am a seasonal field biologist, and in the off season (winter) i do odd jobs to pay the bills.

This winter the owner of one of those "chain" pet stores asked me to come work for him. He knew my background, and wanted somebody who knew what the heck they were doing. So I'm giving it a shot. Its so frustrating to nurse an animal so carefully for days, and then have it die just because some moron who's there on your day off didn't mist them or turn the heat lamps on. :( A couple people have been terminated for this.

But its not all bad, because my boss trusts me, even though he doesn't know a lot about herps. If i talk to a customer and don't feel like they are experienced enough, I will not sell them a reptile. I flat refuse to sell iguanas to inexperienced people. And the boss backs me up 100%.

Its a two edged sword. It would be better if everything was routed through private breeders, I so wish it was. But its nice to see a glimmer of hope, even in "commercial" chain stores.