Cypress mulch?

[jowens]

I am considering switching my bp over to cypress mulch. I saw some at Home Depot last night that was super inexpensive, but it was finely mulched (for lack of a better word).
Its hard to describe the consistency in words, but I suppose that many of the fibers were about an inch long, and very fine.
Does this seem OK?

[BoidKeeper]

I know of a reptile zoo that uses this stuff exclusively. I would not feed on it and you may want to wash it and back it. It usually comes with bugs in it.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Bristen]

just curious.. where do you people get Cypress Mulch this time of year? Nobody seems to carry that stuff at this time... Pets Unlimited carry it but sell it at $30/bag and the bag isn't big enough for that amount of money!!

Thanks,
Bristen.

[BoidKeeper]

Any garden centre should be able to bring in a bag for you. You're right though it's not exactly garden season up here in Canada.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Bristen]

I called a few stores and they replied they didn't have any in stock, but I didn't think of asking them to order a bag in for me.. good idea!

Thanks,
Bristen.

[BoidKeeper]

Be aware though that the hardware store stuff is normally full of bugs. Even the pet store stuff has bugs in it sometimes.
Cheers,
Trevor

[daver676]

Which would be a better way to kill the bugs? Freezing or cooking?

[Bristen]

what kind of bugs? fruit flies and stuff like that? I would guess that any bugs in there would not be harmful for the snakes? Would not be snake mites right? I've been trying out shredded aspen lately and I've found it to be much better than newspaper with regards to certain aspects, but not all that great with regard to other aspects. We would much prefer to use some kind of particle substrate but we're not sure shredded aspen is what we want to use. Since I've read many use cypress mulch, we wanted to give it a shot.

Thanks for the input,
Bristen.

[BoidKeeper]

Cyprus is not what you're looking for then. Cyprus, especially the garden centre stuff is very dirty and dose not have the advantages that aspen has with regards to clumping. Cyprus is good for natural set ups but not practicle for racks IMO.
What we need is a chip type of substrate like Roy Stockwell and the Sutherlands use. The only problem is trying to get it around here. It's called Beta Chip or Alpha Chip. Maybe you, Dave and I should try and find a place that will ship some to us.
Cheers,
Trevor

[mark129er]

bake it for 30 mins. kills the bettles and other nasties.

[Jeff_Favelle]

What we need is a chip type of substrate like Roy Stockwell and the Sutherlands use. The only problem is trying to get it around here. It's called Beta Chip or Alpha Chip

Have to disagree Trev. Aspen chip, flake, strand, whatever sucks for BP's. Not totally, but kind of. I use it for babies but that's it. Cypress mulch or orchid bark is the way to go. Aspen is fine for colubrids and animals that can live in <50% humidity. Balls do not fall into that category (in my opinion).

This is the stuff you want (or something like it). Either that, or use newspaper or paper towel.

http://members.shaw.ca/galleryb/mb2xianbp3_mating2.jpg

[emroul]

Yeah, I'll have to agree with Jeff about the aspen. I tried it and my humidity dropped FAST (in a rack system), even with water bowls and light mists. I switched back (again) to paper towels, because they haven't failed me yet.

I asked the Sutherlands what they use for substrate, they said it is called Sani-Chips. But I guess you can only buy in bulk which gets really expensive. It is nice stuff, though; but I don't know about the humidity part..

[daver676]

Is that orchid bark in that pic Jeff?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Yes Dave, its orchid bark.

And the reason that the Sutherlands can get away with Sani-chip (IMO) is because they have open-air freedom-breeder-style racks and a humid room. Then aspen chip is fine. But I hazard that no one in all of Canada has a set up like that, LOL!

[Bristen]

Jeff,

wasn't you that once posted you keep your RH at 60%? Perhaps I misunderstood and that you only kept that level of RH inside the enclosures.. I currently have my animals on shredded aspen and I keep my snake room RH at about 65% (trying this temporarily, eventually I'll bring it back down to about 55% or 60% for fear of having my new house start to rot prematurely). My animals are on a rack that is not like the Sutherlands, but I used the design that is on Markus Jayne's web site:

The Ball Python Rack (http://www.ballpython.ca/The%20Rack.htm)

I also mist my enclosures a few times per week. So far it has been going ok (no moldy aspen, etc). My ball pythons appear to be doing much better since I've boosted the humidity. The new rack did not keep humidity well and the RH was way too low (about 38% average).

Anyways, what I don't like about aspen is that after 24 hours, all water of a quick misting is gone into the room and out of the enclosure. Also, the animals push it around into little piles and then the bottom of the enclosure is exposed (harder to clean defecation and urates this way because it sticks to the plastic). Even when it's packed, I find it to be too loose and too smal to feed my animals on it for fear of too much ingestion of undigestible particles. It's also a tad too dusty I find. However, compared to newspaper, this is the greatest thing I've ever found. Spot cleaning is so much better than what I used to be doing...

What you are using appears to be quite nice. That is similar to the ReptiBark and other such brand names I would guess. I would also guess that you buy this stuff bulk somewheres? Where do you get it? I've seen similar stuff at Pets Unlimited here in town at an outrageous price of $35 a bag... one bag may of done one adult ball python enclosure but not a whole lot more than that!!

Thanks for your opinion,
Bristen.

[Bristen]

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
[...]What we need is a chip type of substrate like Roy Stockwell and the Sutherlands use. The only problem is trying to get it around here. It's called Beta Chip or Alpha Chip. Maybe you, Dave and I should try and find a place that will ship some to us.
Cheers,
Trevor

Trevor,

I'm all for getting something bulk and splitting the costs with you and Dave... however, my problem right now, is I'm not sure what we want to use. I'm still in the experimentation mode at this point. Aspen has been much better for us than newspaper, but it has however some aspects that we don't like. Until we've found the "perfect" substrate for us, we wouldn't want to order anything bulk. But will keep this in mind when we figure out what we want to use.

Best Wishes,
Bristen.

[sapphire_moon]

I just started using aspen shavings. And everything seems to be going great. My bp's don't push it around. And the humidity is at about 70% (they are in shed) and normally about 50-60% in non shed......I do daily mistings.

[BoidKeeper]

I did find a place in ON that will ship either bata or alpha to NB so if you decid you want to give some a try let me know. For now I'm sticking with newspaper. I also started up my humidifier just now too so I can't wait to see what that does for me with the ceiling fan.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Jeff_Favelle]

Jeff, wasn't you that once posted you keep your RH at 60%? Perhaps I misunderstood and that you only kept that level of RH inside the enclosures..

I have no idea what my humidity is in any of my cages (even my Rainbows) as I stopped measuring humidity 4 years ago. I may have suggested 60% to a newbie because that is what I felt was the best RH to allow for the most husbandry mistakes and still keep the animal alive.

My reptile room is not that humid either, but I have the luxury of living in Victoria, which is a very medeterranean-style climate. The humidity almost takes care of itself (almost). And in winter, when we start heating the house more, its dries out a bit. But that's perfect, because that's when I start to cycle my snakes. 3 factors for my cycling (light, heat, and humidity) so it definitely makes it easier as my micromanagement duties are lessened.

The orchid bark kicks a$$! It holds moisture like a sponge and is a natural deoderizer! I bought a palette of it (60 bags) so I get it a "bit" cheaper than $35 a bag, LOL!! The bags I get are 40lbs I think and each bag does 7 cages (the same Rubbermaids in Mark's rack system). I'm working out a deal to rebag the stuff with my name on it into smaller bags that would do 2-3 cages. These bags would be about $7-8 each. I'm still working on it.

Trev., all the Bosley stores carry beta chip (I use it for the Womas and Hondurans). Its cheap. I buy it for $13 a bag and it lasts me 6 months (for 31 snakes). But I don't use it for Ball Pythons anymore. Not after they are old enough to be transferred to the 11.4L size Rubbermaid.

[Bristen]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
I have no idea what my humidity is in any of my cages (even my Rainbows) as I stopped measuring humidity 4 years ago. I may have suggested 60% to a newbie because that is what I felt was the best RH to allow for the most husbandry mistakes and still keep the animal alive.

hmmm.. maybe you didn't though, I can easily get confused at times heh..

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
[...]I have the luxury of living in Victoria, [...]
right, much rain 'n' stuff.. Gotcha.

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
The orchid bark kicks a$$! It holds moisture like a sponge and is a natural deoderizer! I bought a palette of it (60 bags) so I get it a "bit" cheaper than $35 a bag, LOL!! The bags I get are 40lbs I think and each bag does 7 cages (the same Rubbermaids in Mark's rack system). I'm working out a deal to rebag the stuff with my name on it into smaller bags that would do 2-3 cages. These bags would be about $7-8 each. I'm still working on it [...]
well, that would be nice.. Shipping would not be negligeable though.. I'd have to ship it accross Canada :( Well, if you're able to do that, maybe we would be able to bunch up and order a lot of the stuff.. I'll try and see if the hardware stores can order some in for me.. maybe they wouldn't be too bad..?

Thanks for the input Jeff, much appreciated.

Best Wishes,
Bristen.

[BoidKeeper]

Cool, thanks Jeff.
Cheers,
Trevor