View Full Version : is 28qrts to small
raaarj2
11-28-03, 05:55 PM
wondering if 28qrts to small to house adult female balls in thanks
sapphire_moon
11-28-03, 06:58 PM
Yes that is WAY to small, thats only 7 gallons! You need something atleast 3ft long! Bigger is better. My male is getting a 4ftx2ftx2ft custom enclosure! If you want a rubbermaid try the under the bed kind. They are about the right length.
A 4x2x2 seems way to big for a ball, overkill in my opinion. However, 28 qts. seems a tad small personally, depending on the size of the female. Though I have seen many, many balls living in those exact sizes without any problems. It's personal choice.
sapphire_moon
11-28-03, 07:08 PM
If you have the room, and a snake that likes to climb, that is a good size. It is different for every person. Just seems way to small to me.
What the owners LIKES is not always what is best for the snake. 8 sq. feet of floor space is quite a bit larger than the average 3-5 sq. feet that is usually provided even in the largest of rubbermaids. You might be getting into a size where stress may become an issue.
BoidKeeper
11-28-03, 09:13 PM
The Sutherlands use a 32 quart. It's roughly 32Lx17Wx7T.
Trevor
Originally posted by mykee
You might be getting into a size where stress may become an issue.
i highly doubt that. providing you arent an idiot and can give the snake the proper conditions it needs to thrive. while 4x2x2 may not be NECCESSARY for the snake to SURVIVE, i am also a believer that just because a snake can survive in a certain ammount of space, doesnt mean that snake is happy and/or stress-free. i will always give my animals as much space as possible. captive bred animals may not be used to that much space at first but im sure they have no problem adapting quickly. im not saying i just go and throw a hatchling in a 4x2x2 enclosure right away but when they grow large enough ill give them as much space as i can. my ball will be going in a vacant 5x2x2 enclosure next year when i feel it is big enough. id rather my animals live in an enclosure where they can actually stretch out their full body lenth than be crammed in small rubbermaids with no hides.
IMO, rubbermaids = :thumbsdown:
Well for one if you would take like five minutes to look at the NATURAL behaviour of ball pythons you would know their FAVORITE spot in the wild is small, dark pre dug burrows. Not hiding out in the open on a grass plain.
Sometimes peoples emotions and what they THINK the animal likes more gets in the way IMHO. Just because you THINK ball pythons need 5 feet of space doesn't mean its cruel to house them otherwise. In reality they prefer burrows. That's a fact about the animal, not people.
I am not saying huge enclosures don't work. But to knock people who are just following a pythons natural behaviour is totally wrong IMHO.
Rubbermaids thumbsdown? Why? I can get rubbermaids LARGER than tanks in useable SNAKE space. Big differance between a humans idea of useable space and a snakes. Why wouldn't I? Obviously custom enclosure, great. But don't knock rubbermaids because your feelings tell you they are wrong. I use rubbermaids that are larger than 40 gallons for some of my snakes. They ONLY differance is that one is plastic, one is glass (tanks) and if people think the snakes can really tell between glass and plastic then hey, have fun, I won't even argue that point. LOL
No one has the facts on which one is 100% but the best we can do is go by the snakes natural behaviours, and instinct...not human ideas or feelings. Again no offense.
Marisa
I deserve a thumbs down thats for sure. :D
<img src="http://8snakes.myftp.org/marisa/Snakes/bp/enclosure2.jpg">
<img src="http://8snakes.myftp.org/marisa/Snakes/bp/enclosure.jpg">
<img src="http://8snakes.myftp.org/marisa/Snakes/bp/enclosurejuly.jpg">
Marisa
P.S. btw that's an 11 gallon/ 41liter rubbermaid. The demensions are far different than a ten gallon tank, which provides more useable space for the snake.
sorry, i should have been more clear. i was refering to most of the typical rubbermaid rack systems that i have seen. most ive seen used for adults arent even big enough to accomadate any kind of hide for the animals and not much room for any reasonable size water dish. i know you can get huge rubbermaids but thats not what i was talking about. and who said anything about an open grass plain? i provide thick substrate and at least two hides (sometimes 3.) i provide climbing branches which even the BPs regularly utilize and any other kind of natural looking structure. i realize that BPs prefer to burrow and stay inactive during the day, but im saying that its obviously healthy for them to be able to get out sometimes and roam around.
I am totally not fighting with you and I really do see your point. For sure. But what I am saying is when people make assumptions like "its obviously healthy for them" and things like that with no fact to back it up, it starts people asking why they are saying those things, ya know? Again not sayings its right but people have raised ball pythons which are 100% healthy in tiny rubbermaids. Not that I'd recommend that, but its totally possible and they go on to become healthy healthy snakes, produce, feed and grow.
Anyways this is the enternal battle with herpers. lol :D
And in any case, I also agree that a 7 gallon anything is too small for an adult BP.
Marisa
nice setup, marisa. that snake appears to be a hatchling/juvenile and the rubbermaid seems more than adequate for the size of snake, but the majority of the adult set ups ive seen are nearly the same size. i didnt mean to associate all rubbermaids with being inadequate for BPs.
Anyways this is the enternal battle with herpers. lol :D
i totally realize this. that is the reason ive never addressed this issue in here before and i do see where youre coming from. im not just trying to be a ****.:rolleyes:
sapphire_moon
11-28-03, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by mykee
What the owners LIKES is not always what is best for the snake. 8 sq. feet of floor space is quite a bit larger than the average 3-5 sq. feet that is usually provided even in the largest of rubbermaids. You might be getting into a size where stress may become an issue.
I'm saying that if you have the space and you (in your personal way) want to provide that amount of climbing space then go right ahead, as I have done.
I'm not saying rubbermaids are bad, infact when and if I get anymore snakes I'm getting rubbermaids. I'm just saying that for a full grown female BP a 28 quart rubbermaid may be on the small side. But for a baby bp that may be enough space.
As for providing to much room......well as long as you have enough hides, then there should be no problem. But as munchy said I wouldn't go throwing a baby bp into a 4x2x2 enclosure!
As most of you have said it really is a personal preferance.
And even I think that 8ft of space is WAY to much for a bp! lol. Unless you have an abnormally HUGE bp!
sapphire_moon
11-28-03, 11:44 PM
Oh ya, I love the rubbermaid marrisa and that is exactly what I was trying to say. Usually someone says it better than I do and in a shorter post than I do. lol :)
Sapphire; 8 sq. feet of floor space is exactly what you said you're going to be putting your ball in; check your second post in this thread (4x2x2).
Munchy; you should have made yourself clear. Who mentioned anything about "small rubbermaids that are too small for a hide"? Pretty ignorant comment, you should go to a Zellers or a Wal-Mart, and look at the vast assortment of rubbermaids available.
Marisa; You go sister! I agree entirely with everything that you've said in this thread. It's too often that enclosures are built for the owner and not the snake being housed.
sapphire_moon
11-29-03, 12:01 AM
No, I said an 8ft cage was to big. I misread your post. I don't usually look for the sq after feet. Sorry bout that. It's been a long couple of days....
Sapphire, I agree, and 8 foot cage would be too big (but I also think that a four foot cage is too big). To each their own.
sapphire_moon
11-29-03, 12:29 AM
ya it is a bit big. but I would like for him to stretch out......to each his own. Do you have a good rubermaid model # that can hold an adult bp?
Sapphire, for my balls over 1500g I use the rubbermaid #2119-87 (34x16x6) which I conveniently keep in a rack identical to Mark Mandics' "Eating Machine" rack. I really like the fact that the entire back of the enclosure acts as a dark hide, which allows me to use those hides for my other balls. Even with the extra room, I'm yet to see a ball utilize more than 1/4 of the enclosure. Weird, really...
honduranfreekk
11-29-03, 01:24 AM
Marisa Exelent post girl could not have said it any better hun:)
mykee I agrea with you 100% on Mr Mandic,s rack,s they kick *** that is what I myself use and they are great for adult,s and trully do turn non feeder,s into "Eating machines" in my experience I have a couple that where veryyyy picky eater,s but have never missed a meal after moving them into the same rack,s as he uses they are GREAT :) and like you said the dark back acts like a hide and so I dont use hides and they all do better than they ever have. I have made a couple of them, and scaled down version,s for smaller Ball Python,s.I should post some pic,s of the scaled down ones they are cute lol like minny eating machines and love them lol ;)
HetForHuman
11-29-03, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by honduranfreekk
Marisa Exelent post girl could not have said it any better hun:)
mykee I agrea with you 100% on Mr Mandic,s rack,s they kick *** that is what I myself use and they are great for adult,s and trully do turn non feeder,s into "Eating machines" in my experience I have a couple that where veryyyy picky eater,s but have never missed a meal after moving them into the same rack,s as he uses they are GREAT :) and like you said the dark back acts like a hide and so I dont use hides and they all do better than they ever have. I have made a couple of them, and scaled down version,s for smaller Ball Python,s.I should post some pic,s of the scaled down ones they are cute lol like minny eating machines and love them lol ;)
I would really like to see pics of your racks man, especially the scaled down ones. and could you also give me the size of tubs you used and what size of pieces of wood you used?
Thanx man, i hope its not too much to ask.
sapphire_moon
11-29-03, 02:01 AM
ya do you have any pics of your racks of the bp's? I would really like to see them....
honduranfreekk
11-29-03, 02:16 AM
HetForHuman Love that name makes me giggle every time just great ;) that would be my pleasure.I will have some pick,s posted for you and sappire moon this weekend.As for sizes I will have 2 pull out the measuring tape just did it on the fly lol butt I will and can give you that info no problem they work great.Look for them in this post ;) I got the plans from MarkusJayn,s wb site tho he has a GREAT how 2 on his web site great site for info allso ;)
HetForHuman
11-29-03, 02:18 AM
Yeah cool man, and im glad you enjoy the name...LOL
thanks
honduranfreekk
11-29-03, 02:20 AM
Man I love that name it is one of the best I have seen yet ;)
HetForHuman
11-29-03, 02:26 AM
HEHHE
The funny thing is it was the easiest name to come up with, i was surprised no one else had it.
Het and Sapphire, I have pics of the rack I just built under "New Rack" in the Enclosure Showcase Forum here. It may be a bit buried, and the pics aren't the greatest, but you'll get the idea.
HetForHuman
11-29-03, 03:09 AM
ok cool mykee thanx
honduranfreekk
12-01-03, 05:11 PM
Het here is the Pint sized rack.I had to do one in a rush and did not want another full size rack so I made a pint size eating machine lol veryyy scaled down you could say;),but it is all I wanted lol,as for the measurements I will get them for you soon.;)
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/954Small_Pint_Size_Rack_lol-med.JPG
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