Cup Feeding(Long)

[BigPlaya]

Ok so I have this cage that I built(2'wide/1 and 1/2' deep/3' tall) that I keep my cham in. Its a screen cage thats built with plywood as a top and bottom and 2x4's cut in half as a the corners and the door. Well my problem is that I cant really cut the crickets loose in the cage cuz there is a gap in the cage that they can get out of. So I have been hand feeding him some times and the rest I have been putting one cricket in at a time and watch it till he eats it then I put another one in and wait till he eats it and so on and so on. Well this is pretty time consuming aside from his regular care that I give him. So today I thought I would try something different and cup feed him( put crix in the cup and just leave the cup in the cage. So I took a cup that could probably hold about a litre and a half of water and put some clean rocks in the bottom so he wouldnt tip it over when he sat on the edge. Well he wanted nothing to do with it. Is the cup too big for him maybe? Or does he just need more time to get use to it?? This would really be more convenient(sp) for me. Not that I dont enjoy spending time with him. I just dont like spending and hour or so feeding him. Any suggestions?? Thanks.

[Wuntu Menny]

I dish/cup feed all of my chams, always have. I construct holders for the containers in most cases. In using this method, you ensure that the chams get the best quality, supplemented prey possible. You can accurately guage their intake as well as monitor their feeding response. Granted, it takes away from their innate hunter behaviour, but it ensures that they receive the best possible nutritional value from the prey they receive.

WM

PS Lose the screen and switch to mesh, your chams will thank you.

[Collide]

There are ways to seal those gaps seal them with silicone or other sealents.

I new thing that has been working well for me is i took a rubbermaid square container gut a large hole on the lid (the cut is the basic shap of the container) hot glued some screen on the bottoms so it covered the whole bottom. so I hand that in my cage vertically. the crix run around on the mesh to get the chams attention and they cant get out (unless they do super jumps lol). anyway ill try and take a pic if u dont understand. Its easy to clean too and easy to replace mesh if nessesary.

[joer]

Please collide take a pic of it would locve to see the way you have it. Now I have a ? Well i have about 10weeks old Vealed and there is know way to cup feed her. Infact she wont even get near me yet. Still kind of young and still new about 3 weeks now. But when should i start to try to cup feed is there a good age to start.

[Collide]

Yea Im getting my brother to come out this weekend soem time (shhh i want his camera lol). 10 weeks that is young ummm the best thing I think would be to get him in a aquarium (temperaly) till se gets a bit older that way you can just let those crix loose. I dont know how u have him now but that would be the easiest thing otherwise ummm get a very very slick serfaced container that is fairly shallow and but a carrot piece in it with crix but sticks over it so the little guy can easily get them. hope that helps just my thoughts

[J-Man]

Hi,

when I kept cham(s) I used sort of what collide is doing. I took a one gallon milk jug. I washed it out thoroughly and then I cut a portion off. I cut it so that's it's basically a dish except two of the sides are higher than the rest. I'm really sorry I can't explain it better...

I got the idea from an article that somebody gave me on this site. If somebody could remember it, that would be helpful. I think the guy named "ChamParadise" gave it to me.

[joer]

This how i have it now. Were you see the wood I have a Marble top now 8).


http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/3494small_pic_cage.jpg

[Collide]

wow that is a great cage. is that your guy in the pic? 10 weeks that almost 3 months its ok i think putting a container at the bottom would work take it out when u water then put back in. u have lots of room down there soo u can put a fairly large container.

[joer]

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/3494Cham_color_pic_copy.jpg




Here she Is 8)

[J-Man]

Another good idea is to have 2 or 3 cups and put them in different places inside the cage. I'd have on on the bottom and 2 in seperate places among the branches. I would take one of those black binder clips that yo ucan get from any office supply store and clip them to a branch.

[joer]

You know what thats a great idea infact goign to do that tonight. So i will have to get a cup thats kind of deep and that the crickets cant jump out of?
Also will she know to look in there?

[meow_mix450]

mm i pretty lucky, my nosy b 2 years old, likes to be hand feed, and bucket feed, so it works both ways for me, i dont like leaving bucket in there cause e always, some how knocks it down lol, ive tired rocks and everything, so i take 30 mins out of my life to feed him, i enjoy it, i just a got baby veiled bout 2 inchs long not including the tail, and he likes to eat it out of a bucket too. What i did was i got a stick that was clean, and i used a cantainer, the one they sold to me wit te cham, i poke 2 holes on both side, stuck te stink trough them and now, he can get into the cantaner. cause my little container is burried under the dirt, so ya, and it works fine. ill post a pic if you wish

Meow

[joer]

Please do 8). Thanks alot

[drewlowe]

I went out and got a plastic green food dish (made for bird cages) and hung it from one of the bendable brances (up high so he would feel comfortable). If i don't want crix. running all around all i have to do is pull off thier back legs and i've succeded. It takes a while to do that but it solves the problem. Neo seems to like his dish every morning when i fill it up he's right there chomping away. Well as soon as i leave the room. LOL

any way i'll post a link to my gallery so you can take a look if you want. i circled the dish. I would post the pic here but my puter won't let me do certain things right now.

http://ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1695neo_food_dish.jpg

[joer]

How is the dish attached?

[drewlowe]

if you look close enough on the pic you can see a little metal hooks at the back of the dish.

[BigPlaya]

well I put some crickets in the cup and just left it there all day. When I came home today, they were gone so either they escaped somehow or they were eaten. My guess is that they were eaten because he's sitting on the rim of the cup right now. Im pleased to say the least, I think he gets stressed when I hand feed him and I dont want those little crix getting out of the cage. And I cant really silicone where the cracks are because the cracks are where the door is. :D

[Trace]

Now I'm going to cause even more confusion in this thread... trust me! LOL!

I have the luxury of freeroaming my crickets and silkworms in all of my cages. (no holes) I hand feed the roaches because well I can tolerate a few loose crickets in my house, roaches... NO! On superworm day, those go in regular soup bowls in the bottom of my enclosures. Sometimes the crickets will jump into the soup bowls and I've found they can't get out of them. Maybe that will work for some of you.

Now here is where the confusion starts; has any of you found that through consistent bowl or cup feeding that your chameleons have lost the use of their tongues or have gotten "lazy" tongues?

Trace

[meow_mix450]

lol your right trace you just got me confuzled lol hmmm gonna give it anaother shot, hmmmm what do you mean by lazy tongues???

Meow

[Trace]

Lazy tongue? Hmmm...

Because the chameleon is eating out of a container every day, they only need to "shoot" their tongues a short distance to grab the food. Over time their tongues get lazy (for lack of a better word) and they can't shoot them as far. This is why I like to freeroam my insects as much as I can. I also think chameleons do like the thrill of the hunt and it keeps them occupied.

There are other factors that will cause lazy tongues in chameleons. Lack of Vitamin A I think is one. I'll have to dig out those articles so please don't quote me on that right now but there are some nutritional deficiencies that will cause it as well.

So, back to my question... if you have an otherwise healthy chameleon that is solely cup fed all it's life, will it get a lazy tongue?

Trace

[meow_mix450]

mmmm i get it now, since i got it i hve been feeding it with a little cup thing, and hand feeding, sometimes i would also throw the criket on the mesh. And the criekts that go lose i leave them. But ive been doing thaat for a couple of months now, and about 2 days ago he went for one that was across te caage(that waas lose) so there hasnt been any lzy tounge that i notice, if it does, then i will change how i feed it, i waant my cham to live a healthly life lol

Meow

[gfisher2002]

I almost always feed Lucy by hand. She seems to like it. I also just toss a few crix in her cage when I'm too busy to hand feed. I would think that a handfed cham would get a lazy tongue. Don't know for a fact. But I don't think it would create an problems. All you have to do is vary the distance of your hand from her while feeding and she would get to use her tongue to it's fullest extent. I've read of chams that have lost use of their tongue because of over extending it. Good question though Trace.

[meow_mix450]

lol opps thanks for reminding,(gfisher2002) i was going to say where you hold the criket(distance), but i havnt had any problems.

Meow

[J-Man]

Yeah but she said cup-fed. In which case you can't really vary the distance all that much.... I was about to give the same answer you did lol

[gfisher2002]

Well, depending on how you cup feed you could vary the distance. Not if he sits on the edge of the container, but if you can tip it for a second and she can see the crix you could hold it away from her.

[meow_mix450]

Well its ll good for me cause, my cham hates going near the cup lol, like he would stay about 5 inchs away, and when i criekt comes close its gone lol

Meow

[Collide]

OK lol here goes my crazy brain lol. Ok

1st Mrs.moo (free range) she is a eager eater that hunts doen every single crix in sight. but ... she now will not hit crix across the cage like se used too she get as close as she can first.

2nd Mr.moo (bucket) will eat crix in there as close as he can get... so ud think that toung is lazy right... well he hit silks that i put on branches no mater how far as soon as he sees them.

3rd Silvan (hand/ that container with mesh) this guy definatly prefers hand feed food, will not eat out of a bucket. but will eat (only a bit) ot of the tubaware container.

So i do think that bucket feeding will create lazy toungs, but some chams im not sure i think they are just lazy they can do it just lazy. i never but silks in a bucket. I also think that if there cage has been the same for a long time they know how to get places sooo why shoot your toung when u can get there faster. lol just some thoughts

[Wuntu Menny]

Interesting Q Trace. I have seen some of my chams display a short strike approach from time to time, but it seems to be a matter of preference as opposed to necessity as they will take prey from a distance as well. The one problem I did have was with transparent feeding dishes. As they don't recognize the barrier, they tend to misjudge the range or try to shoot through the plastic. This caused some temporary injuries before I figured out what was happening.

WM

[drewlowe]

I'm not quite sure if neo does or not. Unluckly for me i got this guy already over a year old and i'm not quite sure how he was feed. I know that when i did feed him (free range) crix. that i would see most of them on the floor of the cage dead. So when i started ripping the back legs off and sticking them in the same dish i used for mealies and other worms, he would get them all. Maybe he could have a "lazy tounge" or just really bad aim. I really don't know but to ensure he eats i put his food in the bowl and i will let a few crix. loose in his cage (if he decieds he wants to hunt).

[Trace]

I appreciate the replies everybody! I'm not completely convinced that it's true, nor am I convinced that it's false either. I guess it does boil down to circumstance in a lot of ways. Laziness, age to name a few.

I do have a 3 year old male Veiled that I took on this past summer and up until I got him, he was solely cup fed once a day. His tongue does not work, he can only shoot it out maybe a inch. I've had him to the vet for a general check-up and fecals and those came back fine. Because of that I have not bothered to pursue other tests like bloodwork to see if there is anything odd going on internally. Maybe I should, but he's a happy chameleon otherwise. I freeroam the crix (he can't catch them) and the silkies (those aren't a problem) in his cage. Eventually I succumb though and place a bowl of food in his cage so the poor guy doesn't starve. It's taking a while, but I have noticed an ever so slight improvement in his tongue. Maybe I have to be more patient with him.

Cheers!

Trace

P.S. BigPlaya... I may not have mentioned it already, but I'm glad your little guy is eating well and your tongue issues have been sorted out.

[gfisher2002]

Could it be possible that he, not so much has a "lazy" tongue, but that he has never learned how to use it to it's fullest extent. Maybe he will slowly learn and become more fluent at using it.

Just a thought..

Garrett