am i doing it wrong?

[marylyn101]

It seems to take an awfulling long time for the mice to die in my gas chamber. i use a shoe box like plastic container, thats where the mice go, a tube is attatched to that witch is connected to a margerine container witch holds the baking soda. a second much smaller shortening container holds the vinegar with a stick to allow flow and stop flow in the middle of it. i use 2 cups of vinager and 3 table spoons of baking soda. but i add more because THEY DON"T DIE!!! the last batch was a buntch of fuzzies and they ended up in there for 3 hours with me adding more and more. i had to kill them manually. (i hate this:( ) when i check i don't open it i look at the side and see them gasp their little mouths. OOHHH to keep snakes.

[Derrick]

k I havent done this yet but I'm thinking you might need a very small vent in shoe box. to allow the CO2 to fill the shoe box you need some way for the air to escape??? just my guess. CO2 is heavier than O2so it should push it out you also might want to try a smalle killbox

[unknownclown]

Ive heard that its pretty common for pinkies to take forever in the gas chamber. I personally havent tried it so I dont know but Ive heard alot of people talk about it.

Just a thought.

[Mystic__69]

I personally never had to kill the pinkies, but I found that putting adult mice in a air locked jar in the freezer for about half an hour to an hour works good to kill them. Should give it a try for the pinkies

[marylyn101]

ok..... that doens't really answer me. and freezing is not a best way to do it. there blood freezez inside them.

[HetForHuman]

Originally posted by marylyn101
ok..... that doens't really answer me. and freezing is not a best way to do it. there blood freezez inside them.

Well after they are out of the gas chamber dont you freeze them anyway?

nothing wrong with freezing them, you just unthaw them as needed right?

[mark129er]

Instead of the baking soda and vinegar try dry ice, it is compressed liquid carbon dioxide. When added to warm water it sublimates very quickly creating gaseous CO2. If it is available it works very nicely, very humane. Try and find a Praxair, BOC or some other vendor in your area. www.praxair.com. Well as humane as killing can be anyway.

[Jayson]

Mystic

Dont you think taking a half hour to an hour to freeze to death and sufficate at the same time seem a little cruel??

[jaybox_reptiles]

thump it in the head it will never no what hit hahahahahaha

[JasonBrennan]

I personally never had to kill the pinkies, but I found that putting adult mice in a air locked jar in the freezer for about half an hour to an hour works good to kill them. Should give it a try for the pinkies

Are you serious? This is just outright cruel!! There is no reason to torture an animal like that, even if it is "just food". If you can't find a better way of doing it, just buy frozen....some people:mad: :mad: :mad: :(

[Oliverian]

Well after they are out of the gas chamber dont you freeze them anyway? nothing wrong with freezing them, you just unthaw them as needed right?
Well, yes, but it's very painful to the rodent to freeze to death. The blood crystalizes in the vessels and things rupture, ect. Not a fun way to die.

I'm not sure marylyn, but I would suggest a very small container so it fills faster. I don't know if airholes would help, but someone else probably does.
-TammyR

[BigPlaya]

Well I just want to add one thing about the freezing issue. I have always thought that when you put them in the freezer, they just fall asleep and they dont feel a thing. You know, like when a human goes in there sleep they say that they died peacefully. Just a thought. :D

[jadegrasse]

Here we go again. The food industry must follow Canadian guidelines on how to kill animals for consumption. They use mass head trauma devices like bolt guns or recommend cervical separation (break their necks). If an abattoir tried to use C02 or freezing then cruelty charges would be laid and people would probably go to jail.
We breed about 1000 rodents a month and we use cervical separation for the larger rodents and head trauma for the smaller ones. All die with a 30 seconds which is faster then gas or freezing. IMHO, if you can’t stomach killing the rodents humanely then let the snakes do it or purchase them frozen.

All baby rodents have a gasp reflex that allows them to conserve life long after the larger ones would have died. They can gasp fresh air 30 min after being drowned or gassed and come back life.

[daver676]

Originally posted by Mystic__69
I personally never had to kill the pinkies, but I found that putting adult mice in a air locked jar in the freezer for about half an hour to an hour works good to kill them. Should give it a try for the pinkies

Stop being such a wuss and just whack them. What your doing is about the cruelest thing you can do to kill a rodent. "Put them in a sealed jar and put them on the freezer"......Jezz! You sicken me.

[marylyn101]

i gas the pinkes because there skin tears. and that is much worse

[Lisa]

i find gassing pinks to be a waste of time. everything else dies quickly but not pinkies. we bag em and swing.

[Lisa]

Originally posted by jadegrasse
Here we go again. The food industry must follow Canadian guidelines on how to kill animals for consumption. They use mass head trauma devices like bolt guns or recommend cervical separation (break their necks). If an abattoir tried to use C02 or freezing then cruelty charges would be laid and people would probably go to jail.
We breed about 1000 rodents a month and we use cervical separation for the larger rodents and head trauma for the smaller ones. All die with a 30 seconds which is faster then gas or freezing. IMHO, if you can’t stomach killing the rodents humanely then let the snakes do it or purchase them frozen.


some ofthe food industry practices do not seem humane at all. kosher meats for example, must be bled to death. if the animal thrashes around and breaks its neck it can't be used for kosher meat

[joshm]

Put them in the freezer they start to go numb and can't feel it and then they fall asleep. Not cruel at all if you ask me, it is better than wasting your time with gasing them and some people just don't have the heart to whack them.
Thanks Josh

[JasonBrennan]

Joshm....when was the last time you were ever put into a freezer? I am sorry, but you are flat out wrong. They do not "just go numb and fall asleep". If you doubt me, try this: in the middle of winter, when the temps are well below freezing (I mean cold enough to freeze meat), strip off your clothes and go sit outside for a while and tell me how it feels. You will be miserable, I can promise you.

If you don't want t try that, then try a walk in freezer at some meat packing plant.

I will say it again...if you can't kill your food items humanely, JUST BUY FROZEN!!!

[C.m.pyrrhus]

My first question is, why kill pinks? For arguements sake, they will not bite or injure reptiles. Then, if you cannot stomach feeding snakes (or other herps) a live pink, why get any species that does? What would happen if you had a species that ate lizards or other snakes? Could you ever stomach that?

As for methods on killing, I would assume folks that are "grossed out" by killing to simply by frozen. Makes sence. What is wrong with offering stuned prey? Your snake can finish off the prey IMO, if you hate to kill. Being humane is very silly to me. I agree that one should kill prey as quickly and humane as one can, yet in the end you are keeping and collecting animals that naturally eat live prey. What can further be done to be moral? Makes no sence...buy a dog, there food is allready chopped, cooked, processed and manufactured.......;)

[Zoe]

Marylyn, I tried that type of gas chamber and it didnt work for me, either. The same thing happened. Perhaps it is a flaw in the design, I don't know.
I would start killing them manually, if I were you. It may seem a little gruesome but you get used to it really quickly. Just hold them by the tail and whack them against a desk. Even the adults die within seconds.

And yes, freezing a rodent is painful and cruel. You don't just "fall asleep" as you would if it were too hot (before burning temps, of course)... the blood in your veins crystalises and breaks the veins, not to mention the feeling of being cold.

Zoe

[C.m.pyrrhus]

I take it Josh aint from Canada...being froze sucks.

[boomfala]

Hey folks
Funny this should come up. I was just checking this out this afternoon and found a great article on the Melissa Kaplan site.
http://www.anapsid.org/mainsnakes.html
Sorry, I couldn't find the article again but it is somewhere in there. It made a really good point about freezing prey. When a mammal is frozen it actually works really hard to warm itself. To do this the animal will burn lots of calories, thus making it possibly not the best meal (most nurishing) for your snake.
Just thought that was interesting. If I come across the exact article I will link it.

[eyespy]

I have to feed frozen rodents in my little reptile rescue according to Pennsylvania Dept. of Agriculture guidelines for reducing the transmission of pinworms. They aren't such a big issue with pinkies but mice in vet slang are called pinworm factories. The type they carry doesn't thrive in reptiles and seldom lives for more than a generation or two, but even those couple of generations can cause significant intestinal scarring.

I either whack or use CO2 to kill my mice first, though. A stressful death increases the amount of cortisol that is in the rodent's body. Rodent cortisol is close enough to the form of cortisol in a reptile's body that eating cortisol-rich foods may aggravate stress-related diseases in captive herps.

[joshm]

I'm not going to start anything here I just thought that is was okay to throw them inthe freezer sorry it ofends you guys. If it is less healthy to do it for the snakes that is not something I knew. As for it being cruel everyone will have a different opion on that some will say whacking them is cruel some gasing them and so on. As long as my snakes are happy I guess.
Pyrrhus Sorry but I'm from Canada.
Thanks Josh

[Lisa]

there's opinion and there's fact. fact of the matter is freezing to death is not pleasent for a mammal. gassing them on the other hand just makes them fall asleep and then die.

[MajickSprings]

I prefer to make sure my feeders are dead before putting them in the freezer. I breed my own rats...I raise both feeders and fancy pet rats. My rats are all spoiled and I love them all. However I don't have a problem feeding one of the rats I have raised to my snakes. Sometimes I'll take a fresh rat and just stun it very well and give that directly to the snake. It all depends on what sizes I have in the freezer. I try to keep all different sizes in there. I don't have anything small enough to eat pinkies but my piranha gets those ;)

[tai_pan1]

For the pinkies, the fastes most humane way I've found is a screwdriver. I have a thin bladed screwdriver that I use for cervical dislocation. Place the pinky on the table and press the screwdriver down quickly and firmilt at the base of the skull and it's all over in a second. Put them in the appropriate Ziploc freezer bag and into the freezer.

[MartinW]

Just out of curiosity (I don't have anything that I feed mammals to) if I were to wack something would I wack it as hard as I can or does it take practice to figure out how hard to wack them? I'm guessing it might be different depending on the size.

Martin

[Soul_Reaper]

Originally posted by C.m.pyrrhus
I take it Josh aint from Canada...being froze sucks.

Damn freaking right it does!!! I hate winter.

[Linds]

Originally posted by C.m.pyrrhus
My first question is, why kill pinks? For arguements sake, they will not bite or injure reptiles. Then, if you cannot stomach feeding snakes (or other herps) a live pink, why get any species that does?

Why does feeding prekilled only have to be about squeamish owners? I only feed live because I have to, not because I choose to. Maybe some people find it squeamish, but I feed prekilled for the animals. I know personally speaking, I like to get snakes established on dead prey as young as possible. Nothing worse than having to feed live jumbo rats. The longer you wait, the harder it can be to switch them over, especially with some pain in the butt feeders like ball pythons. Some timid neonates may also be scared of live. My Jamaicans had to be started out on dead. Not to mention that feeding live isn't a humane way for the feeder to go, if you are at all concerned with the well-being of the feeder. Although they may not bite the animal, there are still reasons to kill them.

Originally posted by joshm
Put them in the freezer they start to go numb and can't feel it and then they fall asleep. Not cruel at all if you ask me, it is better than wasting your time with gasing them and some people just don't have the heart to whack them.

It isn't about heart if you opt to put them in the freezer over whacking, it's a matter of courage. Freezing is the longest, most painful death you can inflict on a rodent. Though pinkies may not last as long as older rodents (rats can live over 24 hours!), they still take quite a while to die. The blood crystalizing in their veins is very painful for them.

[UpscaleBoas]

i'm knew here so forgive me....
large and medium rodents...can be killed instantly though cervical seperation---quick is good
i don't see how gassing a pinky of hopper is more humman..you guys all state that its along process...a pinky or hopper in the frezzer would die in minutes...yes i live in canada (for what ever reason that matters)...because of a pinkies small size the cold would kill them much faster then the hours of pain a human could go through.
But the biggest reason for doing it fast is that during that time any gut contents in your feeder are being consumed. It is widely believed that this food in the gut is an important source of vitamins (pinkies would have mothers milk in its the stomach probelly the only calcium in it)

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Hey,

Well i am Canadian and yes it does get dang cold up here and it sucks being really cold, like even if ur wearing clothes and a heavy coat and gloves and all it is still cold in -30C(real cold). I have had my fingers and toes go numb before at -15C and damn it hurts. Freezing a rodent to death is real cruel in my opinion and if it hurts to get a finger numb from the cold IMMAGINE DYING MAN! If you get a bruise, a vain has poped, that hurts alot too. Immagine that when ur cold. I am not squeamish and i have already taken like 50 mice out by snaping the spinal cord with something. My father prefers to wack them. If ur using CO2, its kina slow, have you ever held your breath till you almost go out? Its almost a desperate feeling at the end when your taking a breath. Immagine dying that way. I also totally agree with the fact that freezing uses up a rodents enerygy and reduces the nutrients the animal has. Kind of like a criket, if you dont gutload it, it shits out everything good and is worthless(pardon my english). In my opinion wacking and cervical seperation are the best and most humane and quick ways. If you cant do that, as everyone says, BUY THE DAMN THINGS FROZEN, ITS CHEAPER TOO!!!(pardon me again).

Chris

[marylyn101]

i feed dead pinkies becuase they grow up in such a short time. i have four kings all vary in size so i need all different kinds of mice sizes. pinkies sqiush and it's bloody hard to defrost them because they leak. I think i'll use the srcew driver method. i am not squimish i just think you should have respect for the life your taking. i started this and thank everyone for puttin there opions in. contiue on