Please Help Me!!!! Please!!!

[gfisher2002]

I was feeding my cham 5 minutes ago. 1 1/2 year old Ambanja. She was eating her cricks like normal then she went to shoot her tongue out at a crick and it looked like a blue hoop shape. The ping bally end looks like it didn't come out. She keeps trying to eat like she doesn't understand why her tongue isn't coming out. It looks like she swallowed her tongue.
Is this normal??? She isn't having trouble breathing and doesn't seem to understand, her chin is sucked up more than normal looking, like her tongue is in her stomach. Please help me. What do I do?
It's 8:30 here and no vets open. She seems alright but can't get her tongue to spit out. What do I do????!!!!

[joer]

I wish I could tell yah something. Good luck 8)

[Zoe]

Does she eat out of a dish, or do you let the crickets lose in her cage? Does she live alone?

Zoe

[gfisher2002]

She's alone in her cage. And she usually eats out of my hand. The food is most often 3 to 8 inches from her. The last bite she took when i saw her tongue looked like the cricket and her tongue shot way back in her mouth when she pulled it in. After that she kept trying to grab the cricks but her tongue was just a blue hoop looking thing that came out an inch or two. She looked like she was struggling to get her tongue to come out like it was in her stomach. She seems ok now but I think her tongue is still swallowed. She never showed sign;s of loosing control of her tongue. Can she spit it back up?

[gfisher2002]

Please help me!!!

[gfisher2002]

Ok I read abunch of vet sites with pics on removing the tongue from the stomach. All the cases I read are chams that have been having tongue muscule control problems. Their tongues had to be amputated. I called a friend that has had cham for awhile, he said if she starts having trouble breathing I should force her mouth open(gently) and use my finger or a smooth hook to gentle pull the tongue out and then set it back in the mouth after moisturizing it. It should go back to normal when it heals. If it isn't damaged. What does someone think, her breathing's ok right now and I got her drinking like crazy from an eye dropper. This may lubricate the tongue? Someone tell me she'll be alright, im freakin out here.

[Collide]

I saw a article on a tungue being swallowed on adcham.com or chameleonfournals.com not sure Id say get her to the vet right away do you hav any 24 hour places there (I hate vet they never have helped me) read the article it may help you see if thats what happened or not whish i could say more. explain this blue hoop shaped thing in more detail too ill get you a direct link now if i can find it

[Collide]

here it is

http://www.adcham.com/html/veterinary/vet-tongue-problems-kramer.html

[gfisher2002]

That's the article. She came to me and walked to my shoulder and is sitting there like normal. I tried getting her mouth open but as extremely tame as she is, she FREAKED out when I tried to open it. then sat back on by shoulder. Shes sitting here right now as I type. I'm very worried I think her tongue is still swallowed. I'm very scared can someone recommend something else I can do?

[Trace]

Open her mouth and look! You have to find out where her tongue is.

Trace

[gfisher2002]

OK. Thank ****ing god. Her breathing began looking laboured and she was doin a kind of hacking thing, So with no idea what else to do I had my girlfriend hold her and I forced her mouth open and held it open with tape loops like in the article above. I used a stainless hook and ground the tip smooth and round then soaked it in bynzene. It was obvious the end that was down the throat so I slowly pulled it out and she wailed and squirmed but choked when it came out. Then she stopped and looked happy. Other than her mouth being hald open. I soaked her tongue with warm water and it kind of retracted but hung out about 2 inches. So I set it in her mouth neatly and let her close it. I watched her and she did a bunch of throat puffing and I was soooooooooo scared she was gonna swallow it again. Don't underestimate your chameleons intelligence. She headed strait for the water dish and openened her mouth and let her tongue fall into the dish. then pulled it in and let it rest, then pulled it in, and over and over. Until about 5 minutes later it was fully retracted. She now seems very happy and breathing normal. She was licking my hand with peach juice in it too so her tongue seems to be working good. Now, what happened? How can I prevent it? When Should I feed her again? Thanks for trying on short notice guys.

[gfisher2002]

Excuse me whie I have a MASSIVE HEARTATTACK!!

[asphyxia]

Man, I am so happy for ya! good stuff!!

I hate whe stuff like that happens

B

[Trace]

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great news! I've been wondering what has been going on. Let's hope it stays that way.

As for the cause... your guess is as good as mine right now. Could be some sort of nutritional deficiency. It could have been something as simple as an accident. If she were mine, I'd probably take her to the vet tomorrow, just to ensure everything is good inside her mouth.

I probably wouldn't feed her for a few days just to let the tongue heal, but let her drink what she wants. A vet may give you different advice then me though. If you do feed her, try softer insects like silkies and since you hand feed, put the bugs really close to her mouth.

Again, I'm very happy about this outcome. Good luck.

Cheers!

Trace

[CDN-Cresties]

I have no idea what do to now, but that sounded scary, im glad everything worked out. Keep us updated.

-Steve-

[Collide]

wow congrats u propably have just saved her life. as for eating Im no expert but id let it heal for a bit . watch her like a hawk.

[Chris_Anderson]

I would consult a vet if you can just to make sure. As for feeding, I agree that she should rest. In the mean time, so she can still get food while she is recovering, I would make some "bug-juice" (http://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/bug-juice.html) and give her some orally with a syringe. Good luck,
Chris

[joer]

Hey man I am very happy for you 8). Thank god for these forums like these to keep us all informed and stuff. Also there are alot of great peps here willing to help everyone out.

[J-Man]

that's good news! I just now read the whole thread... sorry I wasn't here for you earlier :/

Sounds like you have a smart cham on your hands!

[meow_mix450]

Good job, thats great to hear everythings back to normal


Meoow

[gfisher2002]

Thanks alot for helping me everyone. I didn't know what to do. I was sooooooooooooooooooo worried about her. She's been eating again like crazy because I starved her for a few days. Her tongue seems to be working fine. I called our ONLY vet here that has experience with reptiles. She wanted me to bring her in to check for torn muscles in her mouth. But I thought moving her, especially since its -24 C here right now, would be stressful so SHE came to my house to see her. House call was $120 but she also took a stool sample back with her and did a complete checkup on her. She said I had a very health Chameleon and one of the tamest she's ever seen.
I take my turtles and torts to her so I trusted her to check her out. Thanks everyone. Looks like a freak accident, just my luck it happens to me with my first Chameleon. I thought I had read everything about Chameleons but I guess not.
CHEERS,
'me smiles big and kisses Lucy the panther'
Garrett

[meow_mix450]

lol you seem so happy, im not suprised you got a pic????

Meow

[gfisher2002]

No digital camera yet. If I had one, believe me, you'd have to weeve through the pics all over the forum to find stuff.

[meow_mix450]

lol ok, you hoping to get one soon??

Meow

[gfisher2002]

I'm working on it.

[choriona]

Well I am glad everything worked out. Sounds like you really saved her though. I'd be worried that her tounge got down into her stomach acids!
I did see another chameleon that this happened to, that wasn't so lucky. Once her tounge was removed, it was all dead tissue, and she didn't pull it back into her mouth so eventually it fell off. All she had left was tissue covering the tounge bone. She had to be hand feed the rest of her life. I am gald this didn't happen in your case!

[gfisher2002]

Well I hand feed her anyway, but I'm sure she likes having her tongue. I know I do. I'm just glad she's ok. I just fed her again and she ate another 15 crix but its ok because she hasn't ate the last 3 days. She seems to be eating normal. When she extends her tongue out far though and misses she makes a little choking kind of motion, but pulls it in ok. Could her tongue just be getting tired after 10 crix? Or is this just normal? Just want to make sure .

'me looks on shoulder and gives Lucy the panther more kisses'

She loves it on my shoulder. And she likes kisses. But not as much as rubbing her chin and throat.

'me kisses her again'

[Trace]

especially since its -24 C here right now

EEP! That's horrible! Great vet though... it's nice to see someone so dedicated to her profession. You are lucky you've got access to a good one.

Could her tongue just be getting tired after 10 crix? Or is this just normal? Just want to make sure .

Possibly, the tongue is still healing from the trauma so it wouldn't surprise me. Herps do take a little longer to heal up from surgeries/infections etc than regular warm blooded animals. She also just be full! 15 crix one day, 10 the next... that's a lot of bugs for a little girl in a short amount of time.

Give her a big scratch on the chin for me! I'm happy to hear she recovering so well.

Trace

[gfisher2002]

lol, thanks Trace. She ate another 12 today. She usually stops when she's full. If she's still eating should I just let her? She won't over eat will she? She's been fattening up a bit lately which is good. She was a little slim when I got her. She was another rescue.
I'm only dusting once a week. And I give her the occasianal pinky. Just one since I got her. It was gross. Kind of messy. I don't think she'd ever had one before. But she says NO to greens. Won't touch them. Not even the hibiscus in her cage.

[Trace]

At this point I would let her eat what she wants, but females can get tubby if they eat in excess. I do take in a lot of chameleon rescues myself and when they are in recovery I let them go crazy with the bugs but once they are better then the girls go on diets.

Basically it boils down to the fact that females will lay eggs whether they've been mated or not. You may have read my musings on this subject on other threads in this forum already, so I apologise if I'm repeating myself to you. Anyways, larger, heavier girls will consistently produce large clutches of eggs which, in the long run, is very unheathy for them. Large clutches just drain so much needed calcium from their bodies. Constantly producing eggs eventually shortens their lifespan too. Slimmer (but not skinny) girls will produce smaller, healthier clutches if at all. Long story short, let her eat, but watch that she doesn't gain too much weight.

Dusting once a week is fine, that's all an adult needs, particularly if you are gutloading your crickets with good, nutritious foods.

And the pinkies... did you feed it live? 'Cause that's creepy! I wouldn't overdo it with them either. Some of my guys do like them, but I maybe feed pinkies once or twice a year. They really don't need those complex proteins, but I'm also not completely convinced that they wouldn't eat them in the wild.

Cheers! Have you given her that scratch for me yet?

Trace

[gfisher2002]

I gave her the scratch. 'Lucy says aww thats the spot'
The pinkie was live, I was told it would be ok. I wasn't planning on giving her anothe for a good year like you suggested. Also, could you direct me to a thread about egg laying? I'm not familiar with this process and if she may have a crutch I would want to know what to do. I don't want her getting egg bound. Thanks, yet again, for the great advice Trace. I got a feeling your advice will help Lucy to live a long and healthy life.
Cheers,
Garrett

[Trace]

'Lucy says aww thats the spot'

TeeHee! I can visualize her expression!

Here's a good site. It gives you the basics on care as well as some egg laying tips: http://www.adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/fpardalis.html

I know the following link is about Veileds, but it does explain the feeding regime for females that I touched on in my previous thread: http://www.adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/chcalyptratus.html

For the heck of it, here is a pic of my egg-laying pail if that helps at all. It's a regular plastic garbage pail filled about a 1/3 of the way up with moist potting soil. When the girls are ready to lay, I transfer them in there and they just get down to business. I never dismantle the bucket, it sits in one of my chameleon rooms in case I need it in a hurry.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/405119-1961-med.jpg

Now Lucy may never lay eggs for you. Who knows. But it's always good to be prepared just in case she does.

Cheers!

Trace

[gfisher2002]

Right on Trace. Nice pic. Thanks for the advice I'll check out those sites and study up, just in case. Then I'll know what to do and what to look for. Who needs kids when you can have chameleons? lol
Cheers bud,
Garrett