Mustangrde1
11-17-03, 09:48 PM
Yes the V word I know there are new members to the site and will be asking so I thought what better time to fire off a rant.That and someone brought it to my attention another forum used the V word so here is what i said there as well.
Putting emotions aside and looking at the subject from a pure statistic view 90% of the animals that go under this " UNEEDED" surgery by Unqualified person DIE. That comes out to 10 out of 100 survive hence the high cost for a venomoid.
Now lets look at the safety issue. If the surgery is not done perfectly the animals can again become venomous and fully capable of delivering a fatal bite. I know of one animal that had the surgery done and after a check just off a gut instinct had yellow fluid show on a towel " venom " though it was not conclusive after having numerous mice and rats bitten by the animal they all died in realitively quick order "venom". Now as this was a Paupan Black snake and not by any meens a constrictor or viper with large fangs all i could say is " VENOMOUS".
Concider that animal being sold as a VENOMOID and the person recieving it deciding to play with it and it bit him. He / She would have been dead. This is the biggest problem with venomoids that they can become after time leathol again and kill.Imagine if the buyer had a kid and the kid was bitten and died. Public outcry to ban reptiles would be beyound belief. It would not just be venomous but all reptiles. If you think thats not true your kidding yourself. So now this has put the entire hobby at risk. Care to loose your corns , balls , boas , monitors, geckos???
Many people purchase these animals so they can show off and handle a normally deadly animal. This is a foolish move for the above reason I have handled venomoids myself and always kept a very warry eye on them and no longer do it period for the same reason as well as my belief the surgery is wrong in that no animal should be subject to a surgery with such high mortality rate.
Another reason is that they feel that if they train with a venomoid they will be ready to handle the real thing. This is so far from the truth it makes me laugh when i hear it. First off I have never seen a venomoid after surgery act like a true venomous. Also you will always have it in the back of your head that it is not deadly so you wont show it the proper respect needed. If you do want to keep hots or are thinking about it write on a yellow sticky note every time a snake bites you " today I could have died" at the end of a year see how many times you would have died and then ask yourself if its wourth it.
Many people think they also can not find a true venomous handler to properly train them so they get the voids to learn. I can get the same trainning out of a cornsnake or coachwhip. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR A TRAINER WITH REAL VENOMOUS to teach you. Anyone that says they cant find someone is plain lazy and really isnt looking for one. This is a fact I lived in CA and kept native venomous from 1987 till 2000 when i moved to FL where I had to meet all of Florida's laws and regualtions to get a permit for keeping them here which I did. It took me time to find a venomous teacher here but I did it so no one has an excuse in my eyes not to.
Then we have the people who buy one for the same reason they buy a expensive car or get a big constrictor and that is to SHOW OFF. Showing off gets you killed.
Now lets suppose you do get one anyway and it does bite you depending on species you may not be able to get antivenom in time to save your life. This is because you or the hospitol does not carry the AV needed or may not know where to get some from. Also hospitol personal may not know how to treat such a bite. This occurs because a Venomoid keeper does not do near the research on the animal a venomous keeper would do. Nor do they research the proper AV and where to locate it.
As to the surgery and standards of the surgery. Medications are regulated, but more to the point there are federal laws that require proper steryol surgical enviroments as well as a host of other requirements including full medical records on the animals.These subjects would take hours to go in to.
Bottom line is this is a heated emotional debate especially among venomous keepers. But everyone should feel that if any operation to any animal has such a high mortality rate it should be outlawed. These surgeries are preformed at high cost of life to the animals involved and done purely for no other reason than selling the few that do survive at an eaxtremely high price.If you think that is incorrect the wholesale cost for say a Monacle Cobra " Naja kaouthia" in Bulk is about $65.00 per animal. The resale price of a venomoid is $400.00 to $500.00 the cost of surgery through an unqualified person useing substandard equiptment and medications is roughly $50.00 so now the animal is wourth $115.00 add in shipping of $65.00 and a box charge of $25.00 it all comes out to these people doing it ONLY AND SOULY FOR PROFITABLE GAINS. No care for the animals no reguards for the animals safety or well being.
Ok that was the post. And to the certain friend who brought it to my attention. I will contact Angeliasaurus Peckerectus and tell her where your sexy body and voice is singing next " UM SEXY BODY AND VOICE WERE HER WORDS NOT MINE" just making certain everyone CHUCK AND HUNTER know that was not my words.
Putting emotions aside and looking at the subject from a pure statistic view 90% of the animals that go under this " UNEEDED" surgery by Unqualified person DIE. That comes out to 10 out of 100 survive hence the high cost for a venomoid.
Now lets look at the safety issue. If the surgery is not done perfectly the animals can again become venomous and fully capable of delivering a fatal bite. I know of one animal that had the surgery done and after a check just off a gut instinct had yellow fluid show on a towel " venom " though it was not conclusive after having numerous mice and rats bitten by the animal they all died in realitively quick order "venom". Now as this was a Paupan Black snake and not by any meens a constrictor or viper with large fangs all i could say is " VENOMOUS".
Concider that animal being sold as a VENOMOID and the person recieving it deciding to play with it and it bit him. He / She would have been dead. This is the biggest problem with venomoids that they can become after time leathol again and kill.Imagine if the buyer had a kid and the kid was bitten and died. Public outcry to ban reptiles would be beyound belief. It would not just be venomous but all reptiles. If you think thats not true your kidding yourself. So now this has put the entire hobby at risk. Care to loose your corns , balls , boas , monitors, geckos???
Many people purchase these animals so they can show off and handle a normally deadly animal. This is a foolish move for the above reason I have handled venomoids myself and always kept a very warry eye on them and no longer do it period for the same reason as well as my belief the surgery is wrong in that no animal should be subject to a surgery with such high mortality rate.
Another reason is that they feel that if they train with a venomoid they will be ready to handle the real thing. This is so far from the truth it makes me laugh when i hear it. First off I have never seen a venomoid after surgery act like a true venomous. Also you will always have it in the back of your head that it is not deadly so you wont show it the proper respect needed. If you do want to keep hots or are thinking about it write on a yellow sticky note every time a snake bites you " today I could have died" at the end of a year see how many times you would have died and then ask yourself if its wourth it.
Many people think they also can not find a true venomous handler to properly train them so they get the voids to learn. I can get the same trainning out of a cornsnake or coachwhip. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR A TRAINER WITH REAL VENOMOUS to teach you. Anyone that says they cant find someone is plain lazy and really isnt looking for one. This is a fact I lived in CA and kept native venomous from 1987 till 2000 when i moved to FL where I had to meet all of Florida's laws and regualtions to get a permit for keeping them here which I did. It took me time to find a venomous teacher here but I did it so no one has an excuse in my eyes not to.
Then we have the people who buy one for the same reason they buy a expensive car or get a big constrictor and that is to SHOW OFF. Showing off gets you killed.
Now lets suppose you do get one anyway and it does bite you depending on species you may not be able to get antivenom in time to save your life. This is because you or the hospitol does not carry the AV needed or may not know where to get some from. Also hospitol personal may not know how to treat such a bite. This occurs because a Venomoid keeper does not do near the research on the animal a venomous keeper would do. Nor do they research the proper AV and where to locate it.
As to the surgery and standards of the surgery. Medications are regulated, but more to the point there are federal laws that require proper steryol surgical enviroments as well as a host of other requirements including full medical records on the animals.These subjects would take hours to go in to.
Bottom line is this is a heated emotional debate especially among venomous keepers. But everyone should feel that if any operation to any animal has such a high mortality rate it should be outlawed. These surgeries are preformed at high cost of life to the animals involved and done purely for no other reason than selling the few that do survive at an eaxtremely high price.If you think that is incorrect the wholesale cost for say a Monacle Cobra " Naja kaouthia" in Bulk is about $65.00 per animal. The resale price of a venomoid is $400.00 to $500.00 the cost of surgery through an unqualified person useing substandard equiptment and medications is roughly $50.00 so now the animal is wourth $115.00 add in shipping of $65.00 and a box charge of $25.00 it all comes out to these people doing it ONLY AND SOULY FOR PROFITABLE GAINS. No care for the animals no reguards for the animals safety or well being.
Ok that was the post. And to the certain friend who brought it to my attention. I will contact Angeliasaurus Peckerectus and tell her where your sexy body and voice is singing next " UM SEXY BODY AND VOICE WERE HER WORDS NOT MINE" just making certain everyone CHUCK AND HUNTER know that was not my words.