Questions from a newbie

[Vengeance]

Hello all, I'm currently looking into purchasing my first snake and I think I've come to the final decision that I want a Ball python, so now that I've made the decision I have a ton of questions.

I've done some research and have some good basics on heating tempatures, feeding, habitat, and care but it's allot of the specifcs I'm lacking on. So here goes.....

I know during the day there should be a cool side of 75 - 80F and a basking area of 90 - 95F but what is the best heat source? I was thinking a combination of UTH and light bulbs would be good? the UTH heater for night times and the light for during the day. Also taking into account that the tempature should drop a little bit during the night hours. That's why I thought an UTH heater would be better because I woulnd't have to have a light on at all times. Also would an infrared light be better? What wattage should I use to keep the tempature at the right level?

For substrate I was thinking of Fir Bark but I'm a bit worried about if the snake ingests some of the bark. What harm will come to a snake in the occurance it was to ingest some of the substrate? Also is it better to feed out of the cage or in the cage? I would think it would be better to feed in the cage because from what I've been reading aftering being fed the snake should not be botherd for 24 - 48 hours for fear of regeratation(sp?). So if that's true how does feeding the snake outside of the inclousure then putting him back in after ward effect his digestion?

For humadity what is the best way to keep it around 60%? I've purchased a 50 gal tank with a wire top, (I have some questions about the top next) is misting it daily a good way or just keeping the water bowl in the basking area all I should need to do? I'm confused on what is the best idea here.

Now for the wire top, I purchased one that seems very secure but at the opisite ends of the cage it seems like there is a bit of give to it. Now how much give is too much give? I have to push pretty hard with my hand from the inside out to make it give to a point that the snake would be able to fit his head out, or is the fact that it has any give at all a bad thing? Should I secure it further with bungee cords or something of that nature?

Just like to thank everyone in advance for putting up with my newbie ramblings. Good thing is I'm in no huge rush to get answers to these questions because I haven't even purchased the snake yet. But I want to make sure that when I do everything will be done right, so that's why I'm asking so many questions.

Thanks again

Adam aka Vengeance

[snakehunter]

i use a uth and a reptile black light 24/7. the wattage depends on the tank. 75 is too cool, try the low 80s for a cool side, and high 70s for cool side at night, and 95 is a wee bit high, try 92 at the most

i use in/outdoor carpet for sub. its cheap, and when it gets dirty i throw it in the wash, its simple. i also feed in the cage, less handling to stress the snake before eating, bps have enough feeding quirks, and i dont like to add to them.

for humidity i only mist when in shed, it doesnt hurt when they arent, just make shure not to do it too much, once or twice a day sounds good. i have screen tops on both of my bp enclosure, when thr humidity drops, or the cool side is too cool i put some comic books ontop of the screen to help hold in the heat/humidity. tin foil works too.

being too safe is never a bad idea, i use those clamps that you can buy @ the petstore for like 3$ USD, they work, but you might want to get two sets for a larger cage.

no prob. i made the mistake of buying the snake and then asking questions, but things evened out (kinda) she still has some eating probs, but thats more on her than it is on me, or maybe the other way around.

just remember we are always here to help, no question is stupid, just stupid answers.

oh, and a bp purchased now may stop eating b/c its their winter fast period. just wanted to give you a heads up
-Jacob

[Jeff_Favelle]

I know during the day there should be a cool side of 75 - 80F and a basking area of 90 - 95F but what is the best heat source?

1) The temp during the day is the SAME as the temp at night, unless you're cycling. Don't beat yourself up in trying to get a couple degree drop in temp at night.

2) Best heat source is either heat tape, heat pad, or UTH. Lights suck. Lights are for reading, not keeping Ball Pythons.

I was thinking a combination of UTH and light bulbs would be good?

3) See #2 above.

For substrate I was thinking of Fir Bark but I'm a bit worried about if the snake ingests some of the bark.

4) Fir bark is ok, as long as it doesn't smell "piney". Cypress mulch is best, but newspaper and aspen bedding also work. So does Orchid Bark, which is a type of fir bark.

What harm will come to a snake in the occurance it was to ingest some of the substrate?

5) "Some" is a relative term but if you are referring to eating some by accident during feeding, I wouldn't worry about it. They don't go around with their mouths open so they wouldn't really ingest any by accident at any other time.

Also is it better to feed out of the cage or in the cage?

6) I doubt one is "better", but its much easier to feed inside the cage. Trust me, where to feed a Ball Pythons is NOT going to be your main concern. Getting the thing to eat regularly is the problem. Feeding it in a satin-lined treasure chest isn't going to make a difference if it doesn't want to eat. And it won't want to eat if you keep it wrong.

For humadity what is the best way to keep it around 60%? I've purchased a 50 gal tank with a wire top,

7) YOUR best way to take that screen top and throw it in the garbage. Screen tops are about as useful to a Ball Python as a calculator. Actually, they are detrimental. Scrap it. A properly-constructed Ball Python cage will not require much in the way of spraying.

Now for the wire top, I purchased one that seems very secure but at the opisite ends of the cage it seems like there is a bit of give to it. Now how much give is too much give? I have to push pretty hard with my hand from the inside out to make it give to a point that the snake would be able to fit his head out, or is the fact that it has any give at all a bad thing? Should I secure it further with bungee cords or something of that nature?

8) Securing it with a set of bungie cords is only going to piss off your local garbage men and cause them to not want to empty the garbage can that you threw the wire top in in the first place.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Here's what you do:

Get a Captive Bred (CB) baby Ball from Corey Woods or Markus Jayne out near you and set it up in a Rubbermaid (either 5.83L or 11.4L size) with a heat pad under a portion, making the cage have a heat gradient of 80F to 92F. Adjust until you get it calibrated properly. Get some newspaper and a small water dish (deli cup) and a small clay pot as a hide box. Away you go. Ask in a year (or two) how to build a custom enclosure for your adult Ball Pythons.

Piece of cake.

[maiden_canada]

hey jeff i've got a question, on my heat pad it's 90 exactly which is great, and the humidity if 60 which is also great, but on the cool side its just barely above room temp at around 72-74. the only part of the tank above 80degrees is right on the heat pad. you said it should be a gradient of 90-80 but im at like 90-72, any way to fix this?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Easy. You can't turn the heat up on the pad because that would increase the hot spot. So you put MORE of the pad under the Rubbermaid. If it was under 1/3 of one side, put it so its 1/2 under and recalibrate.

[maiden_canada]

will do. :)

[Jeff_Favelle]

Let us know the results.

[Tigergenesis]

Most people have problems holding heat and/or humidity in tanks. I have a 50 gallon tank with a sliding screen top. My temps hold fine but humidity sucked. I was deterimined to make the tank work. Some are able to just cover with a damp towel, put the water bowl on the ward side, mist constantly, etc - too much work. I was having to put a wet towel on and rewet twice a day and mist 2-3 times a day. Ugh. Finally what worked for me was to put duct tape on most of the cover and I added a Tropic-Aire humidifier with a Rena air pump and all I have to do is refill the water in the reservoir every now and then. This I don't mind. I've decided to eventually get a Boaphile or something like that for my BP and put a lower humidity snake in the tank. Just want to warn ya can be a lot of work to keep things right in a tank or can just take a lot of time/patience to find what works best for your situation.

[Vengeance]

All good suggestions, thanks.

I've already bought the 50 gal tank and wire top so I'm going to have to make due with those. I was thinking about cutting some glass to fit the top of the tank and then put the wire over top of it. Of course I would sand down the sharp edges to make sure no harm came to the snake, but I've heard people mention that air flow can play a big part as well. Do you think covering mabye 1/2 or 3/4 of the tank with a glass lid would restrict the air flow too much?

Tigergenesis

That pump defenitly seems like a good idea if I'm running into problems with the hummidity, not too expensive either. Thanks for the suggestion.

[rwg]

You could put a corn snake in that 50 since their humidity requirements are less taxing, and then buy a rubbermaid like Jeff says for that BP. :)

rg

[maiden_canada]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Let us know the results.

ok, i put the heatpad under half the rubbermaid, and it did NOTHING for the other side:confused: i have holes around the whole thing about 2inches apart, and on the coolend i added a few more. the cool end is like 75, warm end 90. but the humidity is 55-60 all around, any suggestions?

[Tigergenesis]

Thanks RG! I have been looking into some kind of ratsnake - either corn or trans-peco.

[Vengeance]

You could put a corn snake in that 50 since their humidity requirements are less taxing, and then buy a rubbermaid like Jeff says for that BP.

Yes, I could do that, but unless your going to give me the Corn snake and the rubermaid container and everything else I need it more of a can't afford it
:D

[maiden_canada]

ok vengeance you're obviously very impatient and really want a ball, but did you know balls aren't even a good first snake? balls almost always go off feed, and sometimes for over 6months...ive heard of cases longer then a year without eating, do you wan't something as a first snake that you can't even feed? get a rosy boa or corn snake or something else, that you don't need high humidity requirements, and don't go off feed regularly. also you won't be able to get constant 60% humidity in a aquarium, and evebn if you get close you'll have high maintanence like spraying, wetting, etc...if you're low on money also get a snake that takes less to feed, since you most likely won't want to waste 2bucks a week when your BP goes off feed and you have to chuck the rats.

[GotBalls?]

Now, now! Be nice to Vengence!

Vengence obviously is really looking forward to having a ball python and telling someone to "get something else" is just going to make them defensive. All he/she(??) is trying to figure out is the best way to care for the snake with what he/she has, and it seems as thought the extra work that is involved using the less than perfect enclosure is ok with him/her. At least Vengence is trying to learn before actually having the snake!

I'm actually quite interested in finding out the best kind of lid for an aquarium myself, since that is what I will be using, although only a 20 gallon.

So keep the helpful suggestions comming.. I need to learn too!

Nicole

[maiden_canada]

i wasn't being mean, but you can cover the lid like 3/4 with whatever you want..all the humidity still gets out though, well most of it, and only the side with covering will be higher humidity. ball python's aren't great first snakes, theres just as cool snakes like rosys that are just as nice, easier to maintain, and don't require 60% humidity, btw gotballs is that you in your pic

[foman]

Ball pythons aren't a bad of a choice for a first snake, there are better choices but i wouldn't tell someone not to get one. The humidity thing is not that big of a deal, sure around shed time you should raise it a bit but 50 is ok. I get that just from a waterdish in the cage. Read the caresheets, ask some questions and you'll be fine. I would suggest the rubbermaid, it's the way to go with baby snakes.

[GotBalls?]

maiden_canada~ I know you weren't being mean, but losing your patience with someone who is trying to learn isn't very incouraging to the person and might make them think twice about asking more questions.

yup..thats me in the pic

[maiden_canada]

i wasn't being mean or losing my temper, i just skipped all the bullsh*t. i said the truth..that balls aren't the best first snake, and they aren't they go off feed often, and especially not best first snake if you're using an aquarium since the temps won't be right and humidity will always be a bit off no matter what you do. but i have a bp for my first snake, but im also on this site like 2hours a day learning more and more. i don't see why he wouldn't consider a different snake though..have you seen a nice rosy? theyre AWESOME

[GotBalls?]

I dunno.. I've heard different. Most breeders and such I have asked have said that balls are a good first snake. Which is why I am getting one. Not to mention they are the type of snake I have wanted for years, and I know if people kept telling me to get a different snake... I probably just wouldn't get one, because the other snake isn't what I want.

It's fine to tell it like it is... it's all I ever do, obviously other people have made it work with an aquarium though, and I am trying to find out how. If I have to go out and get a rubbermaid container I will.. but I have the aquarium already, and I want to be able to see and watch my snake when I am not handling it. Are there other materials that are better than aquariums but are still good for display?

Nicole

[Tigergenesis]

Do you think covering mabye 1/2 or 3/4 of the tank with a glass lid would restrict the air flow too much?

I'm no expert, but I'd think that wouldn't be too much especially when I see some of the Boaphile, Vision cages that look like they have even less. Just make sure you are able to secure the glass & screen so that your BP won't get out.

I love my aquarium w/ screen lid. I'm sure you'll make it work. I have - little extra work involved and just a bit more money that has been worth it for me. It just took me a few tries to find out what worked best for the work I was willing to put into it. There are lot's of ideas for you to try. Some ideas worked for others but not enough for me. You'll find yours.

Here's a link to an ongoing discussion I've been involved in regarding what has finally worked for another gentleman and I.

:)

[maiden_canada]

i wasn't telling him to get another snake, just advising. maybe people can't handle a snake that alot of the times won't eat

[GotBalls?]

Tigergenesis~ where is the link? I'm interested in seeing it! :)

[Jeff_Favelle]

I've already bought the 50 gal tank and wire top so I'm going to have to make due with those.

YOU'RE going to have to make due? More like the snake is going to have to "make due", through no choice of its own. Owning a snake is a privilege , NOT a right. You don't "make due" because you already bought a cage before you figured out how to keep the animal. You figure out how to keep the animal and THEN get the necessary equipment.


All he/she(??) is trying to figure out is the best way to care for the snake with what he/she has,

Again, not really the best way to go about owning an animal now is it. If I wanted a tiger, and all I had was a spare bedroom to keep it in, does that make it right for me to go and buy a tiger because I am "making due" with what I got?

No, it doesn't.

[GotBalls?]

no.. that's not what I was trying to say.. I'm just saying they are trying to figure out how to make it work, or at least that is what "I" am trying to do. But then I already had the tank, I didn't buy it, and if I needed to I would buy something better. But why not try and see if what I already have might work?

[Vengeance]

Wow lots to reply too, ok.......

maiden_canada

ok vengeance you're obviously very impatient and really want a ball

Well your right I really do want a ball, impatient, don't think that is the right wording, egger yes. If I was impatient then I would already have the snake.

do you wasn't something as a first snake that you can't even feed?

I've done the research I understand the fact that they may or most likely will at some point go off feed and I'm willing to do what I can to make it work. If that means once a week I have to throw out a mouse or rat because it doesn't feel like eating so be it, I'll keep trying until it's ready. I would do my best to make sure it was healthy and if need be force feed it. I've had to force feed other animals before and although not fun for the animal or the owner when it comes to the well being of a pet I'll deal with it.

i wasn't being mean

Didn't think you were, your trying to steer me in what you think is the best possible direction to take care of this animal, I can understand that you think your way is the best way or maybe it's proven through the test of time your way is the best way, but it's not the only way. I want to try it my way, and I will make it work.

Jeff

YOU'RE going to have to make due? More like the snake is going to have to "make due", through no choice of its own. Owning a snake is a privilege , NOT a right. You don't "make due" because ou already bought a cage before you figured out how to keep the animal. You figure out how to keep the animal and THEN get the necessary equipment.

When I say make due, at your standard yes it would be considered making due but for me it is what I think is going to make a good enclosure. Now I may not be an expert on the subject hell, I'm not an expert. But the one thing I find interesting is that every care sheet I have ever read has always made reference too the size of the enclosure by the amount of gallons of an aquarium. Now from what I have been reading most breeders choose to use Rubbermaid's because they are better for space constraints and do make good enclosures, but you make them out to be the end all and be all of tanks and that nothing else is acceptable. Well other people I've talked use them, care sheets make reference too them and I'm sure I can make mine work. Now maybe instead of criticizing me and telling me how what I'm doing is completely wrong and how your way is right, why don't you add some constructive ideas on how I can make my idea work instead of telling me how it's not going too.

Also just as final note to you Jeff I would have expected a much nicer attitude toward your members considering you are a moderator and a representation of the people who are supposed to be on this message board. Your harsh criticisms and abrupt attitude are not appreciated or welcomed and if this is what I can expect from this community then my posting here will not be long lived.

GotBalls

Thanks for the support, I read your hello message on the newbie board and it seems you and I are both at the same stages in our preparation for our new pets. I may not know much and I'm still learning, but if you need any help in your preparation just ask I'll do my best to find the answer.

[maiden_canada]

rubbermaids are the best...other then maybe custom cages, aquariums are terrible, if you know that why do you both using one, just so you can see the snake better, and because you already have one? it doesn't seem like you care about the snake that much really

[Vengeance]

Tigergenesis~ where is the link? I'm interested in seeing it!

think i found the thread...

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26893

The Peg Board is a interesting idea.

[Kappa]

If you have a 50 and are set on using it kewl, have a spare rubbermaid with a UTH, towel and water dish. When ur snake is about to shed or had a problem shed put him/her in the rubbermaid over night and by morning all or most of the shedding should be off. The most expensive thing will be a UTH at about $20 besides that its pretty much stuff u have around the house. PS: for a water dish use plastic lunch containers so the snake can fit into the dish. Cut a hole in the top of the lid and u got a water dish for $2 (i got the idea from jwsporty and it works awesome)

[maiden_canada]

why on earth would you start off a baby ball in a 50gallon? (not sure if you are but someone said so)

[Jeff_Favelle]

When I say make due, at your standard yes it would be considered making due but for me it is what I think is going to make a good enclosure

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter if I think its a good cage, or if you think its a good cage, or if the Ball Pythons Gods think its a good cage. All that matters is if YOUR Ball Python thinks its a good cage, and history has shown that the best cage for a Ball Pythons is NOT a fish aquarium (redundant, I know) with a screen top. Just a fact.

Also just as final note to you Jeff I would have expected a much nicer attitude toward your members considering you are a moderator and a representation of the people who are supposed to be on this message board.

I'm not here to be your friend man, sorry to disillusion you! :p I'm here to give advice on how to house the snakes that I know about. Whether or not you choose to use that advice is up to you. Just because you do not agree with that advice does not imply that I am being mean, nor does it portray me as having a bad attitude. I could care less about what you do, or how you feel. My concern lies with the animals we discuss. Nothing more. If you do not like learning things you obviously know nothing about, and feel the need to chastize those who give you advice, then indeed, you're time here will be short-lived.

Again, its always people who make things personal. This has nothing to do with you. In 2 days, I will forget this thread even existed, simply because I have answered these very questions 400 times here in the last 6 months. But you know who won't forget these questions? Your Ball Python. While its living in a fish aquarium with a screen top. Perhaps a vertical pole (Festivus-style) is in order?

Cheers.

[Ron]

Festivus...Ha Ha....time for the feats of strength!

[Syco]

Vengeance,
From what I understand, you are planning on starting out with a baby BP.
Despite the fact that you think Jeff is not very friendly or courteous with his answers, he is exactly right. A 50 gal aquarium is not going to be a good home for your new BP. For one thing it is way to large, BPs want to feel secure and your new BP is not going to appreciate the extra space it's just going to make him or her nervous and more likely to go off feed. The second thing is a 50 gal aquarium is going to be very hard to heat and keep the humidity in. Why not try the rubbermaid, they are cheap and you won't be out a lot of extra money and you will find that your BP will be a lot happier. :D You will be happier too if you are not having to deal with him going off feed or bad sheds. If you look on the enclosure forum , you will find a post about some rubbermaid cages that look really cool!
As for the 50 gal.... why not buy some fish? :D

[Syco]

Here's the link for the rubbermaid enclosure. http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25763
Hope it helps! :D

[Vengeance]

I'm not here to be your friend man, sorry to disillusion you! I'm here to give advice on how to house the snakes that I know about. Whether or not you choose to use that advice is up to you. Just because you do not agree with that advice does not imply that I am being mean, nor does it portray me as having a bad attitude. I could care less about what you do, or how you feel. My concern lies with the animals we discuss. Nothing more. If you do not like learning things you obviously know nothing about, and feel the need to chastize those who give you advice, then indeed, you're time here will be short-lived.

Again, its always people who make things personal. This has nothing to do with you. In 2 days, I will forget this thread even existed, simply because I have answered these very questions 400 times here in the last 6 months. But you know who won't forget these questions? Your Ball Python. While its living in a fish aquarium with a screen top. Perhaps a vertical pole (Festivus-style) is in order?

I never asked for a friend I ask for some constructive criticisms on how to setup the enclosure. But all you have to say is, you idea is wrong, my idea is right, do it my way or you don't really care about your snake. But you haven't provided me with anything. Why not tell me why Rubbermaid’s make such good enclosures and why glass tanks are not. All I have gotten so far is that Glass tanks suck and Rubbermaid’s are better, well guess what, that’s not helpful. Is it only because glass tanks with wire tops cannot hold the humidity that they are bad, or is it because they can't hold the temperature, what makes a Rubbermaid so good? If a glass tank was built to hold the humidity and the temperature correct why would that glass tank still not be as good as the Rubbermaid, are there actual documented health risks from keeping your Ball in a glass tank.

Coming to a person looking for answers and saying, your wrong and I'm right is of course going to get a defensive reaction, especially when you don't provide anything other then do it my way cause it's the best way. I don't see any benefits of a Rubbermaid over glass. Rubbermaid’s seem small and lacking on space for the snake to move about. While glass seems to offer much more space for the snake to move around in and with what I hope to be a more stimulating environment. Now if the only bad thing you have to say about glass is that it won't hold the humidity, rest assured that there are ways to fix that. But unless you can actually provide someone with actual facts and reasons why one is better then the other, then why would anyone want to listen to you?

[Tigergenesis]

Sorry I forgot to post the link to the discussion I mentioned. :o

http://ballpython.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49


When I was doing my research on Ball Pythons, I too saw all the care sheets that said an aquarium was okay. I even read tons of posts on various message boards - none mentioned tanks as being bad. I guess my timing was off because it wasn't until after I had bought everything that I started seeing posts by others having problems with heat & humidity in the tank. I remember thinking "why didn't anyone have this problem before I got my tank so I'd have known what to expect". I saw tons of posts about feeding problems but none on tanks. Anyway, it's all worked out for me and my temps and humidity stay good. As I said just took some plaing around with various ideas.

I will admit that I too started with my little guy (2 months old at the time) in the 50 gallon. However, I had plenty of hides for him - per the recommendation of many people. I placed hides on both sides so he could still thermoregulate while feeling secure in an appropriately sized hide.

[Tigergenesis]

Opps!

As I said just took some plaing around with various ideas

Should be "playing" around.

:)

[Vengeance]

Syco

Much more helpful. I was not thinking about a hatchling but maybe a 1 year old Ball. The idea being that if the breeder is a good breeder the Ball would already be feeding and that it wouldn't be too stressful moving into the new environment. When I was going to build the new enclosure I was taking into account that the space may stress the snake out, the idea being to provide enough cover and I was thinking something like 4 - 6 hides spread out across the enclosure to make sure that it always felt secure. If this isn't the case and no matter what I do to try and make the Ball comfortable I won't be able too then I will have to reconsider my approach and start over. Also I've been looking into many different ideas on how to keep the temperature and humidity up in a glass enclosure and it does sound plausible. I know it may be more difficult to maintain then a Rubbermaid but I think I can do it. Rest assured until I have the humidity and temperature correct and holding over a weeks period I will not be purchasing the snake.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Vengeance, I'm not here to support Jeff. I am here to tell you that he is giving you the best advice. Starting out with 4-6 hides in a glass tank with a screen top and adjusting from there is way too complicated. Start out with the very basics like Jeff said and then learn what you should and shouldn't do from there. The fewer variables you have in your setup, the fewer corrections you'll need to make and you'll have a lot less guess work.

Nobody is picking on you. If you search through the ball python forum, you'll find dozens of threads discussing this very topic and you'll see that the same advice comes up over and over again.

Why make life more difficult on your snake and on yourself? Just keep it simple and enjoy keeping your snake. You're lucky that there are people on this forum who WILL give you unbiased advice instead of tip toeing around. Take that advice and run with it. Don't take it so personally. :)


p.s. I'd bet you $13 that if you DO keep your ball like you plan to, your next thread will be titled "Help, my new bp won't eat!!!" ;) Then you'll get all of the same advice all over again. Save your self AND us the hassle... :D Enjoy...

[foman]

It is possible to make a tank work for a ball python, but a rubbermaid is better. They are only 7-8 bucks at walmart or Zellers, The amount of time and effort wasted to get the tank set up properly you could have a rubbermaid ready to go(in a day or two). Also rubbermaid are easier to clean, move,maintain humidity. Try the rubbermaid method and you won't be dissapointed. If you don't like it you got a feeding bin.

[Vengeance]

Well it would seem that due to overwhelming support the rubbermaid is the best choice. So now the question comes back to myself what to do witht he 50 gallon tank, keep it get 2 snakes one for the 50 gallon and the ball in the rubbermaid, or just stick with 1 in the 50 gallon for now and get a Ball and a rubbermaid at a later time when I'm ready for a second snake.

Thanks for the help guys.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Sell the tank and buy more snakes! :D

I don't see why if one snake is not suited for a tank, you insist on getting another one to keep in it. With snakes, you need to stop thinking about yourself. They don't care about how much you spent on the tank, the heat lamp, the vertical pole ;). They care about hiding and eating. Cover their needs, not yours. :)

Don't be shy, ask more questions. You might not get the answers you like but you'll get good advice....

Thanks,
Tim Cranwill
www.cranwill.com
cranwill@mts.net

[Syco]

Ok.... maybe I'm not understanding this right. You realize that the rubbermaid is the best way to go.... but you are wanting to get another snake for the 50 gal and put the BP in a rubbermaid? Are you wanting to get a different kind of snake for the 50 gal? If so, and you are determined to use this 50 gal for a snake... which it seems that you are, maybe a nice adult corn snake would work. They don't require the high temps and humidity that a BP does, and with proper hides and limbs and such to climb on, a corn might appreciate the extra room.

[Vengeance]

Well basiclly this is where I am, I have the 50 gallon tank and wire top already bought, cant return them, and don't really have the time to try and activly sell them, ok. So I really want a Ball, but from what everyone is telling me, putting him in a 50 gallon is not a good idea, ok cool, that's fine. So now what to do with the 50 gallon, well I love snakes, allways have, so I'll find a type of snake that can best use the 50 gallon and let him have it. I was looking at Corn snakes before, the BloodRed ones I really liked, but I got into a converstaion with a snake owner at a Pet store who has 3 Balls of his own (All in glass tanks) and said corns are horrible, so I kind of got turned off on Corns and started getting more excited about Balls. But if what everyone is saying is true I don't want to get a ball and then have it's health effected if I use the 50 gallon, so ok, for now, no Ball. But back to square one, still have the 50 gallon and I still really want a snake, so the Rosey Boa was also mentioned, guess it's time to go do more research.

[foman]

A kingsnake would also be worth looking into, They are great snakes they come in different patterns and coluors and are a piece of cake to look after.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Well for starters, don't listen to some dude in a pet shop with 3 balls in glass tanks when you are getting much better advice from us. :) Corns are not horrible, even if they are not "your cup of tea" they are still cool snakes. I think you'd enjoy one. They are cheap, easy to care for, readily available, good feeders, easy to handle and come in 3 million color/pattern morphs! :D They would also fare much better in a glass tank than a ball would. Not to say it's the best enclosure for a corn but it would "ok"....

[Vengeance]

Yea I've looked at King snakes and Mill Snakes, Corn snakes, and Ball Pythons. Just gotta go back to the drawing board and figure out what is best suited for what I'm trying to build.

[Syco]

Sounds to me what you are really looking for is a snake to *decorate* your 50 gal tank. Also, just because someone has 3 BPs and has them all in tanks doesn't mean he's doing it right. As for the Rosy Boa... it wouldn't be a very good choice either, wouldn't do much to enhance your 50 gal, if you have the right substrate you would probably never see it.
I'm done trying to make sense of this... if you love snakes like you say you do, you would put fish in the 50 gal or call it a loss and house your snakes in an enclosure that makes *them* happy, not try to find a snake to go with your tank.

[marisa]

Also another point for colubrids is for a first snake they are sometimes more what people would expect....a lot of Ball Pythons spend 90% or more of their time hiding. While corns do this at young ages, most adults constantly cruise the cage, or sit in the open. Which can be more appealing to a new owner than never seeing your snake

Marisa

[maiden_canada]

get a rosy. and you really can't house any moderate sized baby snakes in a 50gallon...its way too big, block off 1/3 of it

[GotBalls?]

this isn't meant to sound sarcastic or anything...but how on earth do snakes survive in the wild if a 50 gallon tank is too big for them?

[eyespy]

They burrow. And reptile mortality rates are roughly 90-95% of all neonates don't make it to their first birthday.

[maiden_canada]

Originally posted by eyespy
They burrow. And reptile mortality rates are roughly 90-95% of all neonates don't make it to their first birthday.

thank you. i know i wouldn't like being locked in a huge cage with monsters staring in on me all the time :), i think rubbermaids also make them feel more secure since you can't see through them well, my BP can't even tell im in the room unless i come up close

[GotBalls?]

If mortality rates are that high, then how have snakes survived for so long? I'm not familiar with the age of sexual maturity for most species but I can't imagine that many babies being produced by each snake if they only live a year.

[maiden_canada]

the have big litters, maybe only 1 or 2 from each litter survives in the wild. thats how

[jowens]

As far as I know, neither the rubber of a Rubbermaid nor the glass of an aquarium is water permeable. There is no reason that an aquarium should lose humidity any more readily than a Rubbermaid if both have the same exposure to the outside air.

Vengeance, your idea of getting glass covers to sit inside the lip of your aquarium, under the screen top, is a good one. To offer ventilation, either have holes drilled into the covers or have the covers cut slightly shorter lengthwise. You just need to determine the appropriate surface area for the vents. IIRC, Boaphile's mid size cages have about five square inches for ventilation. I believe other popular commercially made cages are comparable in this regard. In any case, all edges of the covers will need to be ground, and you will spend some money going the glass cover route. Also, make sure you use a large water dish, and place it so that it at least half of it sits over your heating pad.

However, as many have suggested, I would house a baby ball in something much smaller.

I hope this helps.

[maiden_canada]

rubbermaids > aquariums. jowens its funny you start an arguement in your first ever post :) lol

[daver676]

Originally posted by maiden_canada
rubbermaids > aquariums. jowens its funny you start an arguement in your first ever post :) lol

WTF? I see nowhere in jowens post where he is arguing. He is sharing his opinion. That is still allowed right?

I keep my 6 month old bp in a glass tank, I just cover up half the lid with a damp towel, then cover the damp towel with some tinfoil. However, my tank is a 15 gallon. You may have more difficulty with a 50. I would suggest a smaller tank....for now. Once your bp is full grown, then the 50 could be used.

Good Luck.

[maiden_canada]

didn't really mean an arguement, just something that alot of people will disagree with hehe, but many people have proven that rubbermaids hold humidity alot better then aquariums, also if you put a danmp towl on the top you have to dampen it 1-2times a day, atleast i had to

[jowens]

Maiden Canada, could you please explain how I just started an argument?

I did not say that aquariums are better than Rubbermaids, or vice versa. I have, in my own experience, had glass terrariums that kept both heat and humidity. Maybe Vengeance can, too.

[daver676]

Originally posted by maiden_canada
didn't really mean an arguement, just something that alot of people will disagree with hehe, but many people have proven that rubbermaids hold humidity alot better then aquariums, also if you put a danmp towl on the top you have to dampen it 1-2times a day, atleast i had to

Yes, I should have mentioned. Keeping a glass tank at the proper humidity levels will require more maintenence. However, I usually only have to re-wet the towel every other day. The tinfoil not only helps hold in some of that humidity, but also keeps the towel damper, longer. I never have to mist until shed time. My humidity usually hovers around 60%.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Yes, I should have mentioned. Keeping a glass tank at the proper humidity levels will require more maintenence.

And that's the key. If someone is BRAND new at this snake-keeping thing, wouldn't it be in his best interest to have the least amount of problems that could occur? It can be done. Of course it can. But wouldn't his 1st snake-keeping experience be better enjoyed without the extra work involved in micky-mousing a fish-cage setup? Maybe not. Oh well. All you can do is give advice. And if people already have their minds made up, no matter how many times you beat them over the head with advice, they just won't take it.

On to more important things..........

[Slannesh]

I always get a kick out of people claiming that rubbermaids are vastly superior to glass aquariums when it comes to humidity. Both are water tight, so the only place to go is up and out for any water in the enclosure. The only reason that glass aquariums tend to lose more water is because they have open tops and tend to have more airflow. Of course the humitity will be lower when the air is being changed in the tank 100 times as often and it gets even worse in places with naturally low humidity levels. If you put an airtight lid on your acquarium and just punched holes in it like you do your vaunted rubbermaids the humidity would be so close it would be near indistinguishable.

I think Rubbermaids are great for breeding and for people with large collections and limited space... but I do like to give my herps more room than most people while offering a selection of hides at different temps and humidities and let the snakes/lizards decide what they like. Yeah it costs more but I think it looks better and my herps all seem to be perfectly secure and aside from Shiva who occasionally likes 'this' particular hide in 'that' particular spot all seems to work well.

Yes with an open wire mesh it's a pain keeping any humidity in the air especially where i'm from (Northern Alberta) But the glass top on Shiva's tank seems to do just fine for keeping in what it's supposed to.

Don't believe me? Put a mesh top on your Rubbermaid for a day and watch the humidity plummet.

I personally think that if he's willing to put in a touch of extra work making a more humidity friendly top and is offereing several hides that the 50 gallon tank is perfectly fine for keeping a ball python in.

Which at the end of the day is a lot more helpful for the guy than calling him names and the multiple insinuations that he's stupid for wanting to do it a way that's different from what happens to be popular at the time.

That being said, in my climate I do have humidity problems since at this time of the year it tends to be around 10% or lower ambient unless it's actually snowing at the time. Hell on human skin is the Edmontonian winter and it can't be a lot better for your herps. But I'm quite sure the humitity would not be signifigantly better in a rubbermaid of the same volume under the same conditions.

[maiden_canada]

a 50gallon isnt fine for keeping a small ball in, we already discussed this and everyone smart agreed.

[Jeff_Favelle]

And the reason that Rubbermaids hold humidity better is because of SIDE VENTILATION. If you have a wide-open top, all the air-born water droplets (humidity) goes buh-bye. Not so with holes inside the Rubbermaid.

But again, this can only be repeated so many times before it just becomes annoying. Right gents? (and ladies).

[maiden_canada]

good point jeff, i didn't think of that...i learn something new every day :)

[Slannesh]

Isn't that what I just said?

Water sublimates, meaning it's now airborne water vapor, if side holes are the only thing it can go though it will... much less so than straight up if your whole top is open. This is all like grade 8 science as far as I can remember (it's been more than a few years) But before the post from Jeff a few above this one I didn't see anyone that bothered to tell him WHY that rubbermaids tend to hold humidity better. They just attacked him for daring to use an aquarium and I saw one post tell him that if he couldn't be bothered to get proper housing for the snake not to get one at all... a 50 gallon aquarium is a perfectly suitable home for a Ball Python with a few very simple modifacations

[maiden_canada]

slannesh, you just admitted rubbermaids hold humidity better then aquariums BECAUSE aquariums need to have the venitilation in the top, all the humidity just goes out. but rubbermaids have holes int eh sides for ventilation. its fairly obvious rubbermaids are much better then aquariums for holding humidity and heat, the only downside is they're not pretty. i sure hope the creator of this thread takes people's advice and gets a rubbermaid.

[Slannesh]

I'll say it slow and use small words so you can understand Maiden.

Make a top with holes near the edges and on an angle. Of course if you have 10 000 holes in the lid it won't hold humidity worth crap. But Diffusion does what it likes. From an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration putting holes in the sides of the rubbermaid may slow the process slightly. But the same # of holes in the top in the correct places, cut at an angle, should have pretty much the same effect

I really hope the creator of this thread doesn't take away from it that many of us seem to like to belittle and crap all over perfectly valid ideas over some juvenile "i know more than you" pissing contest over the stupidest things again and again. If you have useful information to share with someone do so. Leave the superiority complex and attitude out of it, cause honestly even if you're right you're still going to come off as a sanctimonius a-hole.

Some food for thought that i'm sure you're unlikely to sample.


To the guy who started this thread with some perfectly valid quiestions, if my instructions on how to make a decent lid were unclear just send me an email and i'll elaborate.

Slannesh.

[maiden_canada]

just give it up. tell him to get a rubbermaid. i doubt he is even paying attention to the thread anymore and just uses his 50gallon aquarium and covers 3/4 the lid. a rubbermaid would be much better, maybe if he figured out how to make a 15gallon hold humidity that would be OK.

[GotBalls?]

oh come on maiden_canada.. that's a bit of a low blow...just because someone's opinion is different doesn't mean they are dumb. If other people have made things work without following the crowd, then obviously they are alot more dedicated and smarter than you think. Yeah it's the simple way to do what everyone else does, but some people enjoy a challenge and making thier ideas work.

I'm not usually one of those people, but I'm not going to call someone dumb because they are that type of person.

I agree with Jeff on the fact that for someone's first snake keeping expereince, it would best to do what his most widely recommended and will be the easiest and safest way to do things, to make the experience pleasant for both snake and human, but for the people who are more experienced and know what is needed to keep a snake happy and healthy, and are familiar with the extra work it will take to do things a little more imaginatively, I think it is great if they can think of ways to keep the snake that are able to cater to snake and human equally.

Nicole

[Jeff_Favelle]

Isn't that what I just said?

I went away for dinner before clicking "submit post" and then when I finally did an hour later, you had already posted it. Is that ok? Or would you like me to delete my post????

[Jeff_Favelle]

but for the people who are more experienced and know what is needed to keep a snake happy and healthy, and are familiar with the extra work it will take to do things a little more imaginatively, I think it is great if they can think of ways to keep the snake that are able to cater to snake and human equally.


Exactly Nicole. It can totally be done, no question. I did it 10 years ago. So did a TON of people, and some people still do. Its just a matter of being a 1st time snake owner, why would you want a major strike AGAINST your husbandry before you even get the snake?? I know I would have had MUCH MUCH more success if someone just told me to use Rubbermaids for my baby Ball Pythons. Oh well, live and learn. Hopefully the Ball Python will......live.

Cheers all. Can we move on? Perhaps Vengeance has some more pertinent caging questions? Like decor? Substrate? Temps? What kind of hides? etc etc etc. Let's keep the "ball rolling" (pun intended) and not get bogged down on one tiny thing. The world of reptile keeping is as vast and wonderful as we make it. So let's not make it narrow and boring.

:D

[marisa]

O.k. I get all the why tanks can hold humidity, but does this have anything to do with a rubbermaid having both humidity holding properties AND cross (=good) ventilation? Maybe for BP's ventilation is not as needed, but most aboreal snake keepers wouldn't dare keep an animal with such high ventilation requirements in a tank. Even for my BP the air gets rank in tanks.

Again this is just what I have personally tried and experienced using both a tank and rubbermaid. The choice was obvious for me. BTW, my rubbermaids provide both a gradient and space as all are far larger in useable snake space than any tank i have found. IMHO!

Marisa

[Jeff_Favelle]

The thing is Marisa, these people don't even understand what a Ball Python does in nature. They are basically subterranean snakes! The love to live in hole or an old stump. They aren't built to handle huge amounts of air flow with little to no humidity. And, like you said, are best option to replicate this is to use a Rubbermaid. But people don't seem to be concerned with what a Ball Python needs to accomplish life events. They seem to be concerned with saving money and/or making the snake adapt to what THEY want to house it in.

Which is why I question breeding snakes sometimes. At least the cheaper ones. I just wonder where they all have ended up? Know what I mean? :(

[marisa]

Well sadly the fact that BPs can do well with little ventilation is a key reason most keep in tanks. But like I mentioned, I'd like to see them have true sucess keeping many other species this way, most of the time it doesn't work out.

The BP is extremely forgiving species if you ask me, but people should remember that tanks will work fine for forgiving species (corns, kings ,bps, etc) but you almost always must abandon the idea of tanks as soon as you "move up in the snake world" to harder, less tolerant species.

Marisa

[marisa]

Here is another one of my problems with tanks, maybe some can identify:

THEY ARE FRIKKIN HEAVY! Omg! I tried the whole "natural beautiful clear viv" for one of my snakes....needed around a 50 gallon...yeah that was easy to get clean. right. I could hardly even move the thing.

Marisa

[Jeff_Favelle]

Well sadly the fact that BPs can do well with little ventilation is a key reason most keep in tanks


Excellent sentence. Know what though? People can and do live quite fine in jail. But the question is, do they like it?

[Tigergenesis]

Jeff, I know you're ready to move on (don't blame you). But I have to say that with your recent 'banter' I finally understand what you've been saying. I keep reading people say rubbermaids are better - and if anything else is offered they just say 'because tanks don't hold heat and humidity'. This kept confusing me because I know many people have found ways to fix this. I have. Yes, it took some work and I've probably spent way more on my snake and set up than most people (even before dealing with the humidity problem).

Due to one of your last posts I now understand why the humidity is better in rubbermaids. I had no idea that those who use them create ventilation on the side. Now that I know this it makes sense now. And I believe I now get that what you and others are really saying (at the very least) is that "rubbermaids are easier/cheaper for the first time snake owner as opposed to the extra work, money, time and possibly paitience needed to make an aquarium work. " That being said, I think a lot of these posts could have been avoided if the reasoning behind the belief that rubbermaids are better would be given with the statement.

Being that my first (and only at this time) snake is in a aquarium, I'd agree it was a lot of work and I too warn that it can take time and a few tries to get it right. I'm glad to say that at least Vengeance is trying to work all this out prior to getting his snake.



:)

[Tigergenesis]

It seems to me that the Visions, Boaphiles and similiar cages don't have much ventilation either. I've never seen one (other than on the web) so maybe someone can tell me if this is true. Do you guys think they have enough or not enough - or depending on the species kept in them?

Just wondering.

[jfmoore]

Hi folks – I don’t want to add to any of the sturm und drang here. I’m not trying to pick a fight. And although I sometimes fail, I try my darndest not to respond to sarcastic or belittling posts, which is why I dropped the recent “Maternal Incubation” thread. Rest assured, I won’t be trading snide remarks with anyone on this thread, either. That said, may I give a few opinions and tips?

The fact that some breeders keep hundreds or thousands of snakes in spare rooms, basements, or outbuildings in rack after rack with pull out plastic tubs 6 to 8 inches high does not mean this is the ONLY way to keep these animals successfully. Any more than a 4-H kid raising up a single piglet for a project needs to exactly duplicate the methods of a factory hog farmer. Europeans have been keeping and reproducing a wide variety of reptiles and amphibians in gorgeous, planted, natural-appearing vivaria for decades. I would love to live surrounded by such vivaria in my home. But I never will because I am unwilling to put forth the effort required. That I now choose to maintain utilitarian cages, most with plain newsprint as a substrate, however, does not mean that I scorn other people’s solutions. Through the years, I have used glass aquaria, Rubbermaid-type containers, racks systems and various manufactured reptile cages. THERE IS NO PERFECT CAGE! Not for the animal and not for the keeper. But you can make any number of approaches work quite successfully.

To the two new people who have yet to get their ball pythons but who have already purchased 20 and 50 gallon aquaria: Okay! That can work! The good part is you can get these habitats up and running, then do some fine tuning before you move in the new occupants. Your main initial concerns should be temperature, security and humidity.

Temperature. The parameter you should worry about above all else right now given your location and the time of year is temperature. Well-started hatchlings or juveniles are not going to keel over dead from low humidity; they won’t starve to death in a month because they feel insecure. But they can darn well catch pneumonia from too-low temperatures in a fairly short period of time. And that is true whether you use an aquarium or a Rubbermaid tub, or you build a five foot tall replica of a tropical termite mound in the middle of your living room. Strive for a gradient, say high 70’s at one end to a maximum of 90 degrees F at the other. Don’t guess, get a decent digital thermometer. What a young ball python will be trying to do is maintain its body temperature somewhere in the low 80’s. How you have to work it depends on what your own home ambient temperature ranges are. You might be able to make do with an under tank heater alone; you may need to supplement that with an overhead heat source such as a ceramic heat emitter. Seriously consider getting a quality proportional temperature controller such as one made by Helix or Big Apple to maintain your temperatures. A cheaper on-off style thermostat or even a lamp dimmer would be better than nothing. Bottom line: If you are not able to provide a cage with temperatures AT LEAST in the low 80’s initially, then forget it. If you are able, then you can tackle the other concerns.

Security. As is often noted, this is critical for ball pythons. Luckily, it is easily provided in captivity. Just as we don’t exist day to day in some abstract concept called Canada or the U.S.A., so wild ball pythons don’t exist in some abstract wide-open Ghana or Togo. Think micro-habitat, think holes in the ground, think dark, think something they can squeeze into and feel surrounding and touching them, think places where they can coil hidden in the shadows and observe threats come and go while remaining undisturbed. A cage that is TOO big?? Nonsense! Just make sure you provide plenty of snug places to hide, all the better if these are low enough to touch their backs. My current favorites are cheap things like plastic flower pot saucers with holes cut in them. As the snakes grow, you can discard them and spend a buck or two on the next size bigger. My largest ball pythons get garbage can lids or sweater boxes for hides.

People don’t usually provide three, four or five foot long cages for hatchling ball pythons to grow up in because....well, just because. We keep them in tiny containers because it suits US. You can meet their needs in more spacious cages if you wish. If you’re not planning on storing hundreds of snakes in your back bedroom, feel free to think outside the shoe box/sweater box box. I haven’t yet heard anyone argue that the home range of a wild ball python is 36 by 19 inches. But I imagine there are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of these creatures now in North America alone living their entire lives in captivity in far fewer square inches of space. One doesn’t have to be an animal rights extremist to entertain occasional feelings of discomfort about this fact.

Humidity. You’ve already gotten some suggestions for keeping the humidity elevated despite the large open expanse at the top of your aquaria. I’ve used any number of waterproof materials to partially cover screen tops in the wintertime including plastic kitchen wrap – not pretty but effective. Any cage with high humidity and low air circulation will be prone to mold, and that goes for Rubbermaids with a few holes around their sides, too. So you’ll just have to fiddle around during the year with this parameter. We all do at times. But you most definitely will not need an ultra-high constant humidity throughout your entire cage for a healthy snake. Again, think micro-habitat and you should get it right.

Sure, you want to do your best. But for your first time doing anything, what’s the chance it will be perfect right out of the gate? What’s the chance, do you think, that for even the most experienced among us, our husbandry is perfect right now despite our pontifications? Exactly. So read widely; ask questions; check out the archives; then trust your good judgement. Anyway, you’ll often find that the “expert” wagging his finger most disapprovingly in your face just got his first ball python not many months before you! If you’ve made it past childhood, you know that there is more than one right way to do most things. So ignore the “my way or the highway” pronouncements. What most people probably mean is that they found something that worked for them and they chose not to experiment much after that. And that’s okay, too.

Any questions? I’ll be glad to share what I’ve learned.

-Joan

[daver676]

Originally posted by maiden_canada
a 50gallon isnt fine for keeping a small ball in, we already discussed this and everyone smart agreed.

OMG maiden, give it a rest! "Everyone smart agreed". OMG!! LOL!!

Excellent post Joan!

[Vengeance]

Actually after reading everything I've gotten quite a few good ideas and if anything the public berating has done nothing but to strengthen my resolve to make this work. I'm keeping the 50 gallon for starters and I'm going to make some modifications to the tank myself. Starters being to get a glass lid and close off the top so that humidity can be keep in. Next problem to overcome will be airflow, since drilling holes in glass, although possible, but not plausible, I've come up with the idea to Mod the lid on the tank to include 90 mm Fans, one for air intake and one for outtake. That should keep the air flow up and keep the air quality up.

For substrate I decided to go with Exo Terra Jungle Earth, also picked up some large sticks attached to slate, some vines and some fake foliage to fill in the tank. I intend on filling in the tank complete with fake foliage to provide adequate cover when moving about. Also 3 - 4 hides to make sure he feels secure. Also 1 large water bowl of course.

I picked up a digital Hydrometer / Thermometer, it doesn't have an external probe but I just have to place it in the enclosure and leave it there to get accurate readings. So far I've gotten an UTH heater and 100W infrared bulb and haven’t been able to get the basking spot past 87.8 F. I haven't even begun work on the cooler side yet, but what I'll do is go and pick up a 150 W bulb and get a temperature monitor to make sure it stays at 90 and then use the 100W bulb on the other side, that should take care of my temperature needs but of course I will be monitoring them before I do anything.

I like the idea of the challenge involved in getting the enclosure just right, and I'm going to keep having fun with it. Thanks to everyone who has had constructive and helpful things to offer.

[Tigergenesis]

Good for you Vengeance. Certainly glad your doing this before getting your snake. Still going for your original choice: Ball Python? I've also heard of some people using plexiglass or pegboard in the top. Keep us updated.

[Vengeance]

Yea I've considerd useing both, the peg board seemed like a good idea but because I need to use heat lamps to keep the temp up I don't think peg board would work very well. Plexi glass is still another option I'm looking at, but because it's plastic I could see the heat fromt he lamps melting the plastic so I would have to cut a circle our of the plexi glass to make the lamps fit in, all options I am considering. Also yes I am sticking with the Ball.

[maiden_canada]

rubbermaids hold humidity, and have good ventilation. they also hold heat aswell

[marisa]

maiden_canada- No offense but didn't Jeff and I just say that like three times in this thread? Stip repeating yourself. Everyone is having a nice discussion not a rubbermaid is better war. We don't have to repeat ourselves here. We can all read.

Marisa

[Jeff_Favelle]

I've come up with the idea to Mod the lid on the tank to include 90 mm Fans, one for air intake and one for outtake. That should keep the air flow up and keep the air quality up.

Don't spazz like the last time and don't take offence and don't think I'm belittling you, but DO NOT USE FANS WITH BALL PYTHONS! It won't work, it won't work, it won't work. Ball Pythons live in very warm, humid burrows in Africa with minimal airflow. The minute you stick a fan in a tiny cage you will have nothing but problems.

For the sake of the snake (I should get a T-shirt with that) DO NOT USE A FAN.

[marisa]

I think some confusion has come up because I brought up the fact that while BPs can do alright with the extra effort in a tank because they need little ventilation. I was mentioning rubbermaids being better for other species because most others require more ventilation, which is something thats very hard to achieve in a tank. BPs as Jeff stated though do not require high levels of air flow and live in holes underground where they most likely stay for 90% of their time.

Marisa

[Vengeance]

Was unaware that fans would do more harm then good, thanks for mentioning it.

[Slannesh]

I went away for dinner before clicking "submit post" and then when I finally did an hour later, you had already posted it. Is that ok? Or would you like me to delete my post????

That's exactly what I was talking about before. I could care less when you had dinner. I posted then a while later you posted. I'm glad we agree for a change. Delete your post if you like, but the sarcastic attidude certainly doesn't make me think any more highly of you. *shrugs*

[Slannesh]

I too agree that fans are not a good idea. If nothing else you'll get way more airflow than you need with fans that big which will make the humidity issue worse. The tanks I currenlty house my BP in came with one 3" Round vent on each side and one on the back as well as two on the top. So I get the cross ventilation that Jeff was talking about before without losing a ton of humidity.

Most plexiglass won't melt or discolor under moderate heating anymore than glass will. Just let the dealer know that you'll have a high wattage light bulb near it that's going to be on for 10-14 hours a day and they should be able to steer you in the right direction as to what to get.

[maiden_canada]

ok, use the 50gallon i don't care anymore. but make sure you have lots of hide spots, a humid hide on warm end would also be good, make sure you have lots of stuff for him to snuggle up in and feel secure. 50gallons are too big even if you do this, they are even a very good size for a large BP, but just make sure you have lots of hidespots, it would be a good idea to put a divider to cut off a foot of the aquarium, it will also be harder to keep a 50gallon at 60% humidity then a 15gallon

[MouseKilla]

First I'd like to suggest a modification that I'm surprised no one else has: just take the aquarium and put it on it's side. The moisture won't sublimate out this way AND you'll get better air circulation. There are about a million arboreal snakes out there living very happily in a "fish cage" put up on one end with a screen lid on the front. Having said that, I have my BPs in small tanks with screen lids on top and have no problems, light bulb over a big water dish, frequent sprays (1 or 2 a day) problem solved. The thing you have to remember if you do this and use a bulb as a heat source is not to try to shine the light through the glass, it may shatter from the heat, shine it through the screen from the front. An UTH is an easier solution and would bring your hotspot temp up to where you want it.

I'm personally starting to go the Rubbermaid way myself as my snakes are becoming less ornamental and more of a life altering addiction (MORE SNAKES!!! MORE!!) but don't let a few snobs tell you how to keep YOUR snake. Find out what conditions they need and use whatever you wanto bring them about. Some people pretend that they're here to protect snakes while simultaneously farming them in their basements. Lets' not kid ourselves, no one imported any BPs from Africa for the benefit of the snakes and we don't got out and buy one for anyone but ourselves either.

Last thing I want to tell you is that you should keep coming back here because this is great place to meet people that share an interest in reptiles, you can get some good info (take it all with salt though), and find great deals on animals, supplies and feeders. That's what makes this site good and it's why it survives despite the efforts of a minority of snobby members (sadly some have the moderator title, shows how much care was put into selecting them I think). Please don't let their arrogance put you off this site or worse, the hobby of herp keeping. Instead just remember that starting out everyone is clueless, usually because we've made an impulse buy with the help of an uninformed pet store worker, so a few years down the road when you're the expert you'll be more patient and less condescending than some of the superior A-holes preaching at you now.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Was unaware that fans would do more harm then good, thanks for mentioning it.

No problem man. This is relatively new stuff for everyone. A LOT of people had thought over the years that Balls needed the ventilation that other savanna-type reptiles do. But that just isn't the case. It wasn't a bad question though. I remember back in the day when I wanted to install computer fans in my Rainbow Boas cages!!! LOL! If there's one snake that would surely die from a fan, it would be a Rainbow Boa!!! Ha ha! Good thing I had breeders all around me to set me straight!

Keep asking questions man! :D

[Jeff_Favelle]

First I'd like to suggest a modification that I'm surprised no one else has: just take the aquarium and put it on it's side.

It will definitely be better. Trev (Boidkeeper) has done it successfully. It is still more work, but sometimes work is half the fun.

Not the best option, but again, the choice is entirely up to you.

[BoidKeeper]

Yup it's wroking well for me. My room is kept a 60% anyway so that helps. I'm soon switching to almost 100% rubbermaid racks though. However what isn't in the rack will be in a tank on it's side.
Cheers,
Trevor
PS
There's a pic in my gallery of what it looks like.

[MouseKilla]

I take it you are using some sort of humidifier to bring the whole room up to 60% humidity? I'm in the transition process between having cages strewn about the house and a dedicated snake room. Heating a snake room is bone simple but it seemed unlikely that anyone would take the time to individually mist all of their rubbermaids.

[tHeGiNo]

Here is my opinion on it: if ALL the huge huge big time breeders use rubbermaids, there must be something right about them. And if you just think using common sense, it is easy to determine why rubbermaids are the better choice. For ball pythons. Now, with that said, I know what everyone will say. "They have many many snakes, and must conserve room and money." Sure, I could see this being the reason with NORMAL ball pythons, which fetch around $100.00 in the states. But then you must remember that these guys have $10,000 dollar + snakes. I think, and correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't it make sense to keep THESE, of ALL of their ball pythons, in the BEST, PERFECT conditions? I know I sure as hell would. It has been researched over and over and over and over and proved that rubbermaids are ideal for ball pythons. I do not see where there is point to argue. What I would like to know is, why use a tank? Just why? The only thing I can see is for personal pleasure. And that is too much of a problem in this hobby, putting the likings of the human before the needs of the reptile. It is quite sad, actually.

[Vengeance]

Don't feed the Troll

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame29.html

[Tigergenesis]

LOL. :D

[daver676]

Originally posted by Vengeance
Don't feed the Troll

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame29.html

In that case Vengeance, here be you.

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame63.html

[MouseKilla]

Gino,

The important thing isn't what equiptment you use, it's the conditions you provide. If you want recycle a Barbie dream house, seal it up as needed, install heating with a thermal gradient, provide water and sufficient humidity and everything else the animal needs to live what difference should it make to anyone else that it's a pink plastic house and Ken has snake feces on his pants? The snake doesn't give a rats arse what it looks like or what it's made of it just wants it's environmental needs met. There is no question that the easiest way to create this environment is to do what the breeders and serious collectors do (which, by the way, aren't necessarily the same) but if you can do it in your own preferred way and are willing to do the extra work who cares?

As for selfish snake keepers, I must wonder why you went out and dropped a few bucks to bring one home. Did you do it because you care about snakes and just had to get at least one home so you could shelter and feed it, or did you want a cool creature to look at and maybe show off? Maybe you are the one person who collects snakes for that reason but I suspect you do it for the same selfish reasons the rest of us do. Sure we like to take good care of them and make them happy but that's not why we spent the money. You spend money on posessions and that's just what pets are, posessions. Some people don't want to admit that but let's be honest about what we're doing here, if we wanted to spend money to do nice things for animals we'd give to the World Wildlife Fund but instead we shell out so we can OWN the animals. We do it for us, not for them.

[BoidKeeper]

In the summer I don't need one but I do in the winter.
Cheers,
Trevor

[tHeGiNo]

Why I brought my first snake home and have all these reptiles? Because I have a love for the beautiful creatures, and I understand that I am very privilaged to be given the opportunity to care for them and respect their individualities between species. They are an awesome learning tool, and often give me something to do in my spare time.

Also, I do donate to fundations for animals such as the one you mentioned. Me keeping reptiles has nothing to do with being selfish. I know they are not going to be sent back to the wild, and I know they will be in good care for me. In most cases, they will be better off with me then from where they came from.I therefore take this privilage to full advantage. Again, it is a privilage to own these animals, thats why we should never put what is best for us before what is best for them.

[Soul_Reaper]

DAMN!!! This thread became huge...why are you guys so f*cking stressed out about the rubbermaid and 50gal. discussion thing?

FACT: I bought my BP about 7 months ago at The Reptile Store in Hamilton - ON. I already have a Female Charcoal Corn snake, i've had it for about a year and a half now and she started out on a 40gal. tank. And so did my BP, yes you heard me right i bought another one for her and guess what?

Seven months later, my BP eats like a beast, moves around a lot and sheds perfectly. Of course, i have to myst the tank and place wet towels and such regularly but really...i hear people talk about maintenance and all...it's a piece of cake. The only think you have to worry about is the humidity, besides that...nothing.

I think that most people here think that EVERYONE in the community wants to have 50 breeding snakes in the house and that space is always a problem. NOT ME, i don't want 50 snakes, i love them but i don't want them. I have more things to do, i work, i play in a band, i design websites and i WOULD NOT have time to take care of 50 snakes.

Besides, a well arranged 40gal. looks WAY BETTER than a plastic box bought at Wal Mart. I think that a well placed Aquarium with backgrounds and such enhance the snakes beauty by a mile, and it makes for a beautiful house ornament.

The tanks take more work, TRUE. But that doesn't mean that you're gonna waste the rest of your life on it, maybe an extra 15 minutes as opposed to a Rubbermaid box, i don't believe that 15 minutes will really kill anyone.

Cheers.

[maiden_canada]

soul reaper, alot of ''newbies'' aren't commited to that extra 5minutes a day putting damp towels and everything in the cage to keep the humidity up. also you're runnig a risk starting a baby ball in a 40gallon, it could possibly get stressed that might lead to other problems

[Invictus]

I'm personally sick to death about all this horsesh*t about a BP getting stressed out in a big tank. I've never heard anything more ridiculous in my life. If a BP is in its hide box, it is not even the slightest bit aware of how big its enclosure is. All it cares about is its IMMEDIATE environment - the hide box! If they cared at all about anything outside their little hidey hole, they would be extinct in the wild. What they are not aware of does not stress them out, end of story.

[marisa]

Then why do almost all BP breeders and written authors advocate a small enclosure? Could it possibly be because wild Bp's live in burrows underground and spend literally 90% of their time there? Maybe.

Not saying it cant work but everyone isn't stupid and all these huge BP breeders aren't just tossing out ideas for no reason, its backed up by their natural behaviour. Although I am sure Favelle could explain this better than I by far.
Marisa

[Soul_Reaper]

Originally posted by maiden_canada
soul reaper, alot of ''newbies'' aren't commited to that extra 5minutes a day putting damp towels and everything in the cage to keep the humidity up. also you're runnig a risk starting a baby ball in a 40gallon, it could possibly get stressed that might lead to other problems

I agree with you. But first, when i bought my BP seven months ago she was two months old already, so right now she's almost a year old, which it makes her not really a "baby" but an infant of some sort. She's quite used to the tank and she seems to be in perfect health condition, i play drums and the drumset stays in my room. So i have to move her, the other snake and my Iguanas to separate containers upstairs 3 times a week just so the noise won't drive them nuts (those containers happen to be smaller Rubbermaids with soil and waterdishes), and they stay there for more than two hours everytime i jam. At first i thought they would stress up because of the constant changing of temperatures and become vicious but it hasn't happened. They are absolutely co-operative and have never hissed at me. Actually, my BP has only hissed at me once when i first got her, only because when i reached my hand to pick her up i accidentally poked her head without looking, and that kinda pissed her off. But besides this one time, she has been a total sweetheart.

As for Vengeance, he deliberatelly said that HE WOULD TAKE ALL THE PROPER CARE required for the snake, i guess that includes giving the tank extra mysting and everything else. He also seemed honest about it, if he didn't give a sh*t i don't think he would even bother asking anyone about it in the first place.

I'm just trying to say that i do agree with you guys that having a tank requires extra care, but i also believe that a 40gal. tank shouldn't be associated with the demise of the snake, it just requires more care like i said. That's all.

[Vengeance]

*beats dead horse*

But as a side note I did get allot of helpful information from this thread.

Thanks guys!

[Tigergenesis]

Glad to hear it Vengeance - I'd be happy to hear what you end up doing and how it all goes.

Kelly

[Vengeance]

Well as an update I started to work on tempatures. I've gotten the basking point to 91.3 on average and am currently testing the rest of the enclourse. Right now I'm testing under a branch which has some fake foliage hanging down and is pretty close to the basking spot, the Temp is staying steady at 84.4, after 24 hours I'm going to test the cooler side of the tank and make sure that the temps are holding on that side. After I have all the temps right I'm going to start work on the hummidity.

[maiden_canada]

what are you talking about ''basking spot''? when i hear that i think of heat lamps, you should NOT be using any sort of lamp that gives off heat. use a UTH only. another reason why rubbermaids are better...the heat doesn't go shooting through the roof

[Vengeance]

Maiden

Just love the generic unhelpful responses, thanks again. Why is an under the tank heater necessary and why are lights not supposed to be used? If both can produce the same temperatures why is one better then the other?

Also just as a side note, are you a spokesperson for Rubbermaid? I mean do you get like profit sharing for every person you sell a Rubbermaid too? When you sleep do people complain that they hear you muttering Rubbermaid as you sleep? Or is it that you have some weird form of Tourette's(sp?) where you randomly have to burst out Rubbermaid? Because I don't think there is a thread where you don't mention the word Rubbermaid.

[maiden_canada]

holy cow, do you NOT LISTEN AT ALL? seriously learn how to learn. basking lights are for lizards and monitors NOT snakes. you obviously haven't researched enough to properly care for a snake properly. how about you do some more research plz. and actually all of my responses that were directed to your first question, should have been very helpful if you knew how to read and use your brain

[maiden_canada]

( im not angry just using caps to get point across ok thx.) and yes i am sponsored by rubbermaid but my manager is down in california working out a deal with sterilite right now so we'll see i might not be for long :)

[foman]

You can use a light to warm the cage(but use a UTH too),and the warm spot can be called a basking spot.
Don't listen to Maiden he just got his first snake 3 months ago so now he's an expert, the guy is rude and not very informed, so just do what I do and don't listen to him, listen to someone who knows what they are talkin about, cause it's clear the guy is full of hot air.

[maiden_canada]

lol foman its funny how i just said pretty much exactly what jeff favelle told me a couple weeks ago....is he a noob too? just because im new to snakes doesn't mean i don't know anything. for all you know i could research snakes 10hours a day. sometimes i just sit here and laugh at the dumb comments people say

[foman]

But you don't

[maiden_canada]

yeah cause i have a life. now please stop posting since you just proved how little you really know.

[elevation24]

yeah cause i have a life.

sometimes i just sit here and laugh at the dumb comments people say

What an exciting life!

[maiden_canada]

:)

[Vengeance]

holy cow, do you NOT LISTEN AT ALL? seriously learn how to learn. basking lights are for lizards and monitors NOT snakes. you obviously haven't researched enough to properly care for a snake properly. how about you do some more research plz. and actually all of my responses that were directed to your first question, should have been very helpful if you knew how to read and use your brain

By you not explaining your point of the argument, how does that make me stupid? I'm not using iridescent lights, I'm using infrared. I'll be covering the top of the cage with plexi glass and the lights are sitting on top of my original wire top so there is no chance that my snake will be burned by the lights, and I am also using an UTH. I wasn't able to produce high enough temperatures with just an UTH heater alone, most likely because the enclosure is so large and made of glass. So that is why I needed lights as well. So I've explained myself, lets see if you can give a better explanation then lights are for Lizards, UTH are for snakes. If both can produce the same environmental results and at the end of the day that is what the snake needs, why is an UTH absolutely necessary and lights are not to be used.


Foman

Yea I stopped listening to Maiden a while ago, but if he can prove his point then I would take it under consideration, but the mine is better then yours kingergarden approach to an argument that he takes has never convinced me of anything.

[daver676]

Originally posted by maiden_canada
lol foman its funny how i just said pretty much exactly what jeff favelle told me a couple weeks ago....is he a noob too?

With all due respect maiden, you arn't Jeff Favelle.

basking lights are for lizards and monitors NOT snakes. you obviously haven't researched enough to properly care for a snake properly.
I use a red basking light for my bp. Basking lights are NOT just for lizards. However, I also use a heating pad on the hot side (basking side) to give my bp belly eat to help her digest. You need to watch what you say maiden.

You should probably give this a read maiden:

http://www.anapsid.org/ball.html

Good luck with the tank Vengeance, and keep us posted!

[Vengeance]

Funny, that was the very first care sheet I ever read, and still make referance too it :)

[daver676]

Originally posted by Vengeance
Funny, that was the very first care sheet I ever read, and still make referance too it :)

;)

[maiden_canada]

i dont care what that caresheet says, is every caresheet correct? i could find 10 that all say different things about something easily

[maiden_canada]

and its funny how you say ''i stopped listening to maiden a while ago'' when you both obviously read and think about what i say

[Vengeance]

Just because a person read and thinks about ideas presented before him does not mean that they listen to those ideas. If you presented your ideas with reasons and personal experience as to why one is better then the other then it might be worth listening too. But your "my way is better then you way" style of argument is why I won't listen to you. But just because I don't listen doesn't mean I don't consider it is a plausible way of doing things unlike your close minded position of "Rub8ERM41d > gL45S +@NK. 1 r +h3 U83r k3WL Dud3, U R @ N3w8 "

[Invictus]

Sorry, maiden_canada, but I agree with Froman and Vengeance. I think you should keep your fingers away from your keyboard in this matter.

And I hate to tell you this, but Jeff Favelle is ONE person. He is not the world's foremost authority on ball python care. He has a way of doing things, and even though it is repeated by other people with success, that DOES NOT mean that it is the be-all and end-all of ball python care. Maiden, your arrogance in this thread has made you look like 5 times the idiot that you are calling other people. And it's not the first time I've seen this behavior from you either. You've decided t just latch on to what one person has said, and you've decided that anyone else who disagrees is an idiot. Well, let me tell you something, Clarke... until you've actually TRIED different methods of BP care, keep your mouth shut about other peoples' methods. Example here being the overhead light. Guess what? Many people have used that with just as much success as a UTH, and just because Jef Favelle doesn't agree with that method doesn't make him, OR YOU any more correct, or anyone else any more wrong.

I think maybe you should A) Stop acting like an expert when all you are is a little lap dog, and B) Kep your mouth shut about other peoples' husbandry until you have TRIED it and PROVEN it wrong.

[daver676]

Originally posted by maiden_canada
i dont care what that caresheet says, is every caresheet correct? i could find 10 that all say different things about something easily

Would you care to back up this statement with 10 ball python care sheets that recommend different ways of caring for a ball python? I'd love to see them, and apparently you can easily find these care sheets.

[Invictus]

P.S., no offense intended to Jeff Favelle in the previous post. :D

[marisa]

maiden must you ruin everyones good conversation every time? Invictus, Venegeance, me and others could have all had a lovely civilized chit chat about ball python care but you have to come in and make a mockery of an adult conversation.

I don't care what "side" you are on, or what you believe is right, you ruin literally every conversation you try to join that I have been in by being pushy, inaacurate and just plain silly.

Sorry guys. Maybe we shall continue a adult conversation about this when it comes up again. Which, of course, it will! :D :D

Marisa

[Soul_Reaper]

I hate to keep this going but...

Is it just me or has maiden's head disappeared for being stuck to far up Favelle's a$$? I mean, no offense to Favelle, i've seen his website and i know that the guy knows a lot. But like Invictus said, he's not the be-all and end-all of BP care. Thare are other methods.

Well...just make sure to keep us posted on your progress Vengeance, i also use a glass tank for my BP and my Corn and i would like to know what methods you are using and how everything is holding up for ya...

Cheers.

[marisa]

It's not really that, its just that maiden seems to latch on to any advice he hears without even caring why someone gave that advice, without knowing the reasoning behind it, or having persona experience with that advice to back it up.

No one is the end all be all. Unfortunatly a discussion that I felt was going good was basically flushed down the toilet when immature people with little to no reason for their arguements pipe in.

Have a good day peoples.
Marisa

[MouseKilla]

Yeah, it seems a debate will always degenerate in aboot 7 pages or so.... I don't know what it is... let's not forget though that IronMaiden guy there wasn't the only one being dogmatic about the Rubbermaids, he was lead to believe that was the only way by someone who's got enough experience to know that it doesn't matter how you create the right conditions for your animal so long as you manage to successfully provide them. On the other hand that guy toned it down a bit whereas this heavy metal relic of the 80's (no, not you Invictus, lol!) just went on putting the new guy, with totally legit questions, down by calling him stupid.

How does someone get sponsored by Rubbermaid anyway? hahaha The official box of the Olympic Laundry Folding Team...

[Invictus]

Originally posted by MouseKilla
whereas this heavy metal relic of the 80's (no, not you Invictus, lol!)

LOL... reference to me or not... you say that like it's a bad thing? :D

How does someone get sponsored by Rubbermaid anyway? hahaha The official box of the Olympic Laundry Folding Team...

ROFL!

You're one of the cool ones, MouseKilla. Don't ever lose the scathing wit. :D

[daver676]

Originally posted by Invictus

ROFL!

You're one of the cool ones, MouseKilla. Don't ever lose the scathing wit. :D

Agreed! You're a breath of fresh (or not so fresh? :p) air.

[MouseKilla]

Invictus,

I in no way meant that as a bad thing, I will personally never stop wearing nut-hugging leather pants (with matching vest) or flashing my friends the sign of the devil horns. GIVE 'ER BUDDY! LOL!

Daver,

Never once in my life has anyone called me a breath of fresh air, and I'm glad you reconsidered. lol I'm usually called, pessimistic, negative... or just a**hole... I prefer "skeptical optimist" lol!

Geezes H. what the hell are we even talking about here?? This thread doesn't need to be closed, it needs to be aborted.

[jfmoore]

Did someone say “Rubbermaid” on this thread? :medtoothy

I’ve tried those, as well as Sterilite, as well as plenty of no-name brands over the years. My current favorite manufacturer is Iris because the insides of most of their containers are a lot smoother than the competition – not so many of those ridges and valleys which make cleaning more difficult.

Iris is not quite as easy to find as the other brands. They private label for The Container Store (does that company have stores in Canada?). And I think they are the main brand that www.reptiletubs.com (any doubt about their business?) carries.

-Joan

[maiden_canada]

yeah sorry guys but im in love with jeff...ive never met the guy but theres just something about him that makes me tingle.

also invictus i have tried numerous methods so please don't assume thinkgs about me and judge sh*t you don't know.

and vengeance, get a rubbermaid or sterilyte or something. have you not learned anything from this thread? rubbermaids cost like 5-10 bucks

[maiden_canada]

none of this argueing had occurred if you just said..OK, i'm going to get a lizard for the aquarium, and buy a rubbermaid for my snake because they are much better. :D

[maiden_canada]

Originally posted by MouseKilla
not forget though that IronMaiden guy there wasn't the only one being dogmatic about the Rubbermaids, he was lead to believe that was the only way by someone who's got enough experience to know that it doesn't matter how you create the right conditions for your animal so long as you manage to successfully provide them.
How does someone get sponsored by Rubbermaid anyway? hahaha The official box of the Olympic Laundry Folding Team...

actually i said before that if you can get the right conditions with a aquarium it's fine. but it DOES TAKE A LOT OF WORK I HAVE TRIED IT and it took about 5minutes atleast a day to keep it at like 60 on the side with the water dish, and 40 on the other side and i tried atleast 5 different placement of things and arrangements. and if you do get it to work it does take time, and after a couple months of having to get off your *** and do it it gets a bit annoying (atleast for me cause im very lazy) so i got a rubbermaid. 60%humidity all the time, it is very easy to raise it up to 75-80 in a shed, and the temp on warm side is 88-90 and cool side is 80. this is the last time ill post on this thread since im basically repeating myself to 20different people who didnt even read the entire thread.

[maiden_canada]

ooh and one day i was in a petstore talking to some guy about how good my rubbermaid was over my aquarium, and it just happened that a supporter of the company was there and now i get free rubbermaids and rubbermaid stickers

[joshm]

maiden you just have to stir the pot, just because vengance didn't agree with you he is wrong. THINK ABOUT IT your way is not the best or the right way. Just my 2 cents
Thnks Josh

[joshm]

wow free stickers sounds like you should be in grade 1 and with the way you talk to people I have to think about that one.
Thanks Josh

[Tigergenesis]

I think a more correct statement is that it can take a lot of work to figure out what method of keeping humidity & temps in a tank at the right levels works for each person - and that once you find that method it can be a job to keep it. But not neccessarily. I had to try a few methods and the last one I tried happened to be the easiest and the best for me - all I have to do is add water to my Tropic Aire humidifier maybe once a week or every other week. No biggie.

Blanket statements that 'it does' take a lot of work or 'tanks aren't any good' or 'rubbermaids are better' just aren't true.

[MouseKilla]

RUN TO THA HIIIILLLS!
RUN FOR YOUR LIIIIIIIIFE!

Anyone else picturing Joe Dirt selling plastic containers out of his old Chevy Van... the kind with the ladder on the back? "Sixty percent humidity guarunteed baby, day and night." (SPITS)

Which incarnation of Van Halen is the best anyway?
I mean let's get serious here... Everyone knows David Lee Roth is the king and Haagar sucks.

RUN TOOOO THAAAAA HIIIIIIIILLSS!!!
RUN FOOOOOO YOOOO LIIIIIIIIIFE!!!

[maiden_canada]

lol...mouse killa you obviously know nothing about metal either if you link david lee roth is the best. marty friedman and yngwie > all

megadeth > all

[Invictus]

I can't believe you took that bait, Clarke. LOL you're an even bigger fool than I took you for after reading all 11 pages of you pretending like you have a single original thought. :D

[maiden_canada]

haha invictus, i'm joking. i hope you are too haha. i don't have original thoughts? am i some sort of robot? seriously what the hell are you talking about. even if you symbolize you're joking by putting a smiley, it isn't funny.....hah......hah..??

[lilyskip]

geez, i can't believe this freaking post is at 11 pages. of course, i'm extending it with this one, but...wow. i'm in awe.

[foman]

Welcome to the never ending post.lol

[Invictus]

This is the post that never ends.... yes it goes on and on my friend... some people starting posting in it, not knowing what it was... and they'll continue posting in it forever just because this is the post that never ends.........

:D

[Soul_Reaper]

Originally posted by Invictus
This is the post that never ends.... yes it goes on and on my friend... some people starting posting in it, not knowing what it was... and they'll continue posting in it forever just because this is the post that never ends.........

:D


LMFAO!!!!

*hums the melody* :zi:

[maiden_canada]

a mod should just close the thread, it isn't even on topic anymore

[daver676]

Originally posted by Invictus
This is the post that never ends.... yes it goes on and on my friend... some people starting posting in it, not knowing what it was... and they'll continue posting in it forever just because this is the post that never ends.........

:D

BAHAHA!! Nice one. He shoots, he SCORES!!!!

*applause*

[Invictus]

*bows* thank you, thank you. I'm here every night. literally.

[foman]

Too funny Invictus too funny. This will be my last post on the never ending thread.
:D

[Big Mike]

I only got through about 8 pages or so but I did not see anything mentioned about humid hides. I moved my ball python from a rubbermaid to a tank once he was well established. And for humidity...I keep a large water dish, mist occasionally and put in a humid hide when I see that he is going into shed. Humidity problems solved.

[Dark_Angel_25]

WEllpersonally, I have a BP have had him for 6 months now (I know it isn't long) and I have him in a tank. A 3 foot long tank. He has 1 water dish on the cool side, 2 hide rock and a branch. It also has a home mnade screen top. Right now, I put wet not dampl towels over the screen and this makes it last a few days (not to wet to the water drips into the cage just wet enough it doens't dry out in a couple of hours) and I have had no humidity problems. His last 2 shed have been perfect. I have a UTH under the bigger rock and I have a heat lamp, than in the day has a 100watt soft white bulb and at night a 60 watt Red light. This has all worked for me. After reading the post someone linked to about peg board, I think I will give that a try, and it would be sturdier than the screen top.

BTW, 8Ball (my BP) has NEVER gone off feed, and I never had a problem feeing him.

Also, I like the person who started the thread, HATE the idea of keeping my snkaes in Rubbermaids. Yes they may be better, but with a little work (really not that much) I have managed tokeep a great environment for 8Ball. Personally I like to actually see my snakes, so stackable rubbermaids to me have no point, I mean ewhy have a snake that you can't look at when you want?

Just MHO :)

[jwsporty]

Well after reading all 11 pages, its nice to see debate :confused: and criticism is still alive. You can make the 50 gallon work. Turn it on its side, as mentioned, give it lots of hides, a large water dish, a heat gradient, newpaper for the substrate and put a fogger into the water. Have the fogger come on once or twice a day for a few minutes and the problem is solved. Yes plastic containers will work as well but if you have the tank already, you might as well use it. Most of my babies are in plastic containers but I do enjoy a couple of display tanks. Yes it will be a bit more work but isn't that part of the fun of snake ownership?

Jeez and some people really gotta chill out a bit.


Jim

[brig]

Oh, er, I feel left out. Simply EVERYONE who is ANYONE has posted on this thread, and... sorry, I'll shut up. *meek*.

Oh, but Dave Lee Roth has it for me... or is that off-topic and two days ago... hmmm.


:) Briggy

[MouseKilla]

Come on, Van Halen is never off topic, it is central to our culture.