Problem feeder corns - success stories

[vanderkm]

A few photos of three hatchling corns I got as problem feeders that are all doing well now. They had not fed voluntarily for a couple months since hatching and had been force fed at least a couple times by the breeders. The snow and an amel were a gift and the anery and miami I picked up cheap at a local show. I wanted to work with them and learn how to get them started before I had problems with any hatchlings I might produce in the future.

I started these three on tail portions (about 2 inches from the base of the tail of thawed adult mice) force fed every 4 days for three feedings. Then they got a day-old thawed pinky force fed by opening the snake's mouth with the edge of my fingernail and pushing the mouse down gently - not an easy task to master and one that definately took practice. I gave them 7 days between forcefeedings to digest and then gave them a chance to take a thawed pinky before force-feeding again if they refused. The amel was severely kinked and thin and died the week after receiving the second whole pinky. The other three fed on their own after between 4-7 force feedings and all have fed consistently since then. They are doing great but are smaller than hatchlings of the same age. Just wanted to share their story and photos. I am grateful to have had these little ones to learn with and they got a chance they might not otherwise have had. It was an absolutely unbelievable feeling when each of them ate on their own for the first time!

mary v.
snow
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6303_Sept_27_Waif_2_reduced.jpg

anery
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6303_Nov_11_Squeek_3_reduced.jpg

miami phase (what she was labeled as when purchased)
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/509/6303_Nov_11_Roxy_2_reduced.jpg

[Simon]

good thing that they are now feeding on their own~
you still want to try more? LOL...I still have some right now that I am force feeding...hahaha
the upper keys are like a pain in the butt to work with...they like lizard scented but some of them wont even take lizard scented so I had to force feed mine..I think that I stil have 10 left out of the 13 that hatched...haahhah all being force fed once every week. Man..it's a big pain in the butt~....hahahhh

the last one kind of looks like a normal to me
but then it's in shed...maybe it'll turn out to be a miami after its shed~

[mark129er]

Congrats, good for you, you learned new skills and the corns got a new lease on life. Sorry to hear about teh one that died.

[marisa]

Wow they may be smaller than hatchlings of same age but they look quite pudgy!!! Especially the anery and miami!! Great story. Glad they are eating for you now.

Marisa

[vanderkm]

Marisa - interesting observation that they look pudgy because my sense is that they are all shorter than normal rather than thinner than normal hatchlings - seems they just didn't get much in the way of length - will be interesting to see if they catch up as they grow.

Simon - no thanks - I have several from my clutch of normals that have not fed on their own since hatching - turned out I didn't need to get any others to practice on - I had some of my own. These have been harder to get started - tried brained, live, lizard scented, lizard peices, and every variation I can think of on how to house them and offer food. Finally after 2 months of options I force fed a couple times but now they are into brumation - hope they come out of that hungry! Have heard that it has been a bad year for non-feeders from some breeders - figure some of these little guys are just meant to be food and not survive, but is interesting working with them anyway. I agree that it is not a good Miami - more like a normal, but that was what she was sold as. Quite a bit of orange background color in her.

mary v.

[ChokeOnSmoke]

Glad to hear they started eating for you. When force feeding do you guys have any tips? I had to force feed my miami but she is on scented pinkies now. It was extremly stressful on me so I cant imagine what it was like for her(obviously). Do you guys use any lubricant?

[vanderkm]

As far as force-feeding tips, I was advised to use fresh killed instead of thawed pinkies and think it would have made it easier - less likely for the pinky to crush or split. I did not use lubricant of any type - just made sure the pinkies were day old so they were tiny. I tried using various things to open the snake's mouth, but found the edge of a fingernail worked best to just pry open the snake's mouth enough to get the pinky nose in. I found once the pinky head was in the snake's mouth, I put gentle pressure behind the snake's skull with one hand and then pushed the pinky back and a bit downward, slowly and persistently. The snake would relax after a couple seconds and then the mouse could be pushed in fairly readily. I used hemostats to support the sides of the mouse and push it in - taking care not to push too hard - just persistently so the snake never had a chance to spit it out. These snakes didn't resist much - they were small and somewhat weak when I got them, but as they started to gain strength they became more resentful. A couple would try and regurg if I didn't massage the mouse down the throat until it was completely past their mouth - but none brought it back up once it was past the level of the heart. I agree - very stressful to do for both the person and the snake - but for me it was a worthwhile learning experience. Glad your little miami is feeding on her own now,

mary v.

[tai_pan1]

Thanks for the post Mary. I went to a show recently looking for non feeders so I could do exactly what you did. Unfortunately, I found none. I've force fed once, and I used the pinkies nose to open the snakes mouth. Other than that, our technique seems similar. I found that once the head was in, my girl did the rest of the work on her own.

Mike

[vanderkm]

Nice when they cooperate like that Mike. I had one other youngster that only needed to have the head put into the throat and then she would start swollowing, but most of mine have been very, very resistant. I really worry that force-feeding may make them more reluctant to feed on their own - the whole experience seems so hard on them and they fight so strongly. That is why I decided to brumate the remaining ones I have - I didn't want to put them off feeding even more than they already were. If these do not feed on their own within 2-3 months of coming out of cooling and show marked weight loss, I will euthanize them - this is their last chance.

I have a lot of questions remaining about how long to let them go before starting to force, how often to force, etc. There was no question with the ones I got that they were thin and needed some intervention. With my own hatchlings, I was worried about letting them go too long and lose too much condition, but may have not given them enough time to start on their own before intervening. Ah well - a learning experience I guess - and the more people share info the better,

mary v.