reptile brains??

[Bartman]

Well i was in philosophy today and we were talking about locke and how he thinks the brain is blah blah blha..lol..so we got into talking about brains and my teacher said that we have a small reptilian brain inside our big brain..sort of a mini brain..reptile style..Was this true or was this the guys philosophy? He said we have it and thats where instinct comes from..weird..cool though :)

You are what you keep :D

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

What he said is true, sorta'..
Our brain shows clear evidence of having developed in three distinct stages: As vertebrates we began with what is now our brain stem and is often called the 'reptilian' brain; it governs our most primitive survival instincts, appetites, and responses. Then part of that structure was duplicated and the redundant portion developed into the limbic system, also called the 'paleomammalian' brain, which came to specialize in producing emotion and value, mediating learning and memory, and prompting species-typical social behavior. Another fluke 'budding' produced the antecedent to our cerebral cortex (a.k.a. the 'neomammalian' brain), which developed sophisticated sensory and perceptive abilities, came to direct voluntary movements and make plans for them, and eventually acquired conceptual and linguistic capacities.
The brain can be divided into the brain stem (the "reptilian brain") which processes stimuli, movement, life regulation, fear, sexuality, and territoriality; the "mammalian brain" which regulates emotions and communication; and the neocortex, 6 added layers on top of it all, that processes ideas, symbols, abstract, linear thought, subject/object. The reticular formation (RF) is part of the Reptilian brain. it processes arousal, stress, etc. The Thalamus is atop the brain stem, in the forebrain, "but for our purposes part of the mammalian brain) it filters data. Amygdala-- emotions, fight or flight response. Hypothalamus--just under the thalamus. "The hypothalamus is responsible for physical expression of emotion--such as when you feel your heart pounding or palms sweating in a stressful situation." Prefrontal cortex--in the forehead, just above the eyes. reason, organization, memory, worry.

You know, so forth and so on. Simple stuff.
Xain

[Bartman]

WHAT?? wow you sure as he!! know your stuff :)
thanks for that reply!

[Sunrunner]

EESH Xain is there anything you do NOT know lol :) ;)
Your a friggin walking encyclopedia!!!!!

[Slannesh]

Awww. *I* was gonna say that?

What? I was.
I know stuff too! ;)

Seriously though.. wow. That brought back a Zoology class or 12 ;) Good read!

[Neo]

does that mean the reptiles only have primal instincts, appitites, and responses?

[Bartman]

good question..id guess so. One philosopher said that animals were not real because they did not philosophise and know they existed..they based there whole lives around staying alive and reproducing..i dont belive in that though...what agbout you guys?

[Slannesh]

Neo: I would basically agree with that statement yes.

Reptiles are pretty simple animals. Even higher mammals have very little in the way of emotional responses. It's all instinct and conditioning.

Bartman: Philosophy always pisses me off :) what does 'real' mean to your prof? Thinking feeling self aware being? Then no, by that definition most things other than humans are not real. I would think that the clothes on your back are real, they're certainly not imaginary :) I would think that his argument could be used for whether or not they are 'intelligent' or not, but certainly not real.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Actually, I learned that stuff when I was studying the crocodilian brain, it was an accidental learning.
heh..


does that mean the reptiles only have primal instincts, appitites, and responses?

Not absolutly, or at least not what I agree with.
As I wrote earlier- Like all reptiles, except crocodilians of course, lack what we call the enlarged cerebral hemispheres. This basicaly means not much learning is done. However, learning for survival is an issue with at least snakes and Im sure other herps, such as say Holtzman's testings have proved. Younger snakes are more apt at finding the most successful ways of learning such as finding a way out of a scenario not likely favored. Should read up on his stuff, he can better explain his experiments.- Crocodilians have a far greater learning disadvantage. Crocodilians have a cerebral cortex which is where actual thought takes place, enough so that crocodilians can and often do come by name. Other reptiles, as far as I know, lack this but if they were instinctual Not much progress would happen, adaptation isn't just by gene selection..
Xain

[Slannesh]

Cool, that I didn't know. Learn something new every day.

Good thing i'm not a crocidile :)

[Removed_2815]

Wow, Xain, word-for-word plagiarism... We would have you academically discredited permanently at our institution in a heart-beat! Make doubly sure to reference the information before passing it off as your own and it's always plagiarism when you copy word for word.

The brain can be divided into the brain stem (the "reptilian brain") which processes stimuli, movement, life regulation, fear, sexuality, and territoriality; the "mammalian brain" which regulates emotions and communication; and the neocortex, 6 added layers on top of it all, that processes ideas, symbols, abstract, linear thought, subject/object. The reticular formation (RF) is part of the Reptilian brain. it processes arousal, stress, etc. The Thalamus is atop the brain stem, in the forebrain, "but for our purposes part of the mammalian brain) it filters data. Amygdala-- emotions, fight or flight response. Hypothalamus--just under the thalamus. "The hypothalamus is responsible for physical expression of emotion--such as when you feel your heart pounding or palms sweating in a stressful situation." Prefrontal cortex--in the forehead, just above the eyes. reason, organization, memory, worry. (34)

Gregg D. Jacobs. The Ancestral Mind: Reclaim the Power. New York: Viking, 2003. p 29-32, 34-5

I knew it sounded familiar......
Ryan
The Ancestral Mind (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0670032174/104-6404761-2773525?v=glance)

[maiden_canada]

lol! xain just got owned. he never really SAID that he wrote it, we all just assumed. anyways it's pretty interesting, where would i get this informetion if i wanted to learn it for myself?

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Call it as you will. I copied word for word from my notebook. I never claimed it as my own, notice I said I learned it from somewhere and I have it written down right here. Where I got it from I do not recall, enternetly I'm sure because I do not or have I read the book you gave.
And what you would do to me at where ever place bothers me very little. I never plan to go outside this area but only to keep as a hobby and a personal interest, and I'll credit when I can, in this case I couldn't or I would of. Also, if I were asked where I got this I would of gave it out as much as I could, such like this writing. Either way credit me however you please.
And thanks, now I can get the book.
Xain

[Derrick]

who cares what Xain got it from. This isnt a university essay he was writing. He was good enough to take the time to write it out and answer a question. And I'm sure many are enlightened for his response. Rather than being so high and mighty about it, mister scholar, you could have just said, " thats from a great book called whatever go check it out for more info." Effort appreciated thx

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Thank you Derrick, I agree with you but I guess it's more of a goal to call people out on silly stuff. Makes no difference to me. However, I like how he assumed that I plagiarized and not him. But of course I'm a petty
poster on a fourm and not a book writer, yet. But hey, what ever makes the guy feel good. Besides he quoted me on the wrong source.
Notice how I credited Holtzman for his testings, why wouldnt I do the other? Oh yea, maybe it was because I couldn't
Glad I could help anyone who was helped.

Xain

[Slannesh]

Hey Xain great quote, like I said, learn something new every day.

RMBolton, I see your point as well, but he did not claim that was his own work. He's also stated in several other posts that he's taking related courses in school. I assumed it was a quote from a book, but didn't realize that it was a requirement to post authors and page #'s on an internet forum.

So, like Derrick, I would have appreciated a simple reference rather than accusations and threats. Had he outright claimed to have wrote it I would be at the head of the line to burn him as a witch, but he didn't. No need to overreact.

[C.m.pyrrhus]

Good work Zane. Personally it makes sence to post things of thought or importance in the forums when one asks about it. Being that good information is all around to share, I agree that you did a good job helping in the discussion, no matter how you look to some folks. It seems OK for many folks to actually copy bad info in a lot of forums and base it as fact, and then have the whole "herd" follow through, but in this case i feel it was just careful and experienced observation and good thinking to add what you did. Good post.

[Bartman]

yea seriously who gives a crap where he got it. If the person who wrote the book gets mad he can come and yell but does anyone here anctaully give a **** where he got it from..i sure dont and i got my answer, and a very good one at that..thanks a lot everyone :)

[eyespy]

Well, if ssnakess.com gets sued for the publishing of copyrighted materials without permission, then somebody will care. If you didn't write it, you really should post a link rather than copying and pasting somebody else's info. It's not just good manners, it's also international copyright law.

[Removed_2815]

Legalities aside, it's an ethical requirement in our society. To the people that said "he never said it was his, so it's okay" by writing it without a citation, you are in effect claiming it as yours (whenever you write something without a reference than by convention you are claiming it as yours). I have heard all the hollow proclamations of innocence before, so Xain, do not waste them on me.
My post was in attempt to make you aware that you cannot plagiarize, people will catch you, and I had hoped to save you from the consequences of your actions in the future. Plagiarism is always wrong, and it's never an accident.
How could anyone ever take Xain's information as his own in the future when he steals it from academics and shows no remorse for his blatant disregard for the rules? I had given you the opportunity to acknowledge your "mistake" but you lashed out, which leads me to believe it was no "mistake." Believe me there are no second chances in work and school.
Ryan
P.S. Maybe we run in different circles but, Xain, if you are going to speak like an academic, than I assume you embrace some of the rules of academia and understand your discretion.

[brig]

from RMBolton
How could anyone ever take Xain's information as his own in the future when he steals it from academics and shows no remorse for his blatant disregard for the rules?


Ryan: Not getting involved here in the rights and wrongs, but that sentence doesn't ring true to me - surely to the majority it doesn't really matter where Xain's information came from, but more that it is accurate, and can be read with confidence? Regardless of plagiarism and copyright issues, someone 'quoting' (used loosely) from actual texts is a MORE credible to me that all the 'I think that...' or 'I once heard that...' or, worst of all, the 'this is the absolute, definite, only right answer, and I'm making it all up' type of answer!


And generally, on a personal note, I started reading this thread, got quite enthusiastic, and was winding up for a reply along the lines of the 'what is real' debate, post-modernism, and all that, erm, 'theory', but, as always seems to happen on these forums (or 'fora'?), the main story got diverted into a far lesser debate. Not Ryan's fault - he made a fair and valid point, but everyone else jumped off down that route, and now there's a page of posts about that instead! It's a shame.

Brig.

[Matt]

Plagarism is not allowed on ssnakess.com
the same way people cannot post pictures that do not belong to them without giving the owner credit, you cannot word for word post someones published work without giving them credit

all we ask is that the rightful owner is accredited, Ryan posted the name of the author in his post, so since people now know that he is the rightful author.

It is NOT unreasonable for people to get upset at this, some people devote their lives to finding info like this and copying it word for word just trivializes what they have put into this work.

the author may not care, but thats not for us to decide, i know that i would be upset if my work was copied with permission or accreditation.

thats it.

[C.m.pyrrhus]

Plagarism is the copy of 100% of the literature, which Zane <B>did not post</B>, even if it does seem closely worded. Copyright laws also do not matter once the subject has been changed to some degree. I think it is out of line to assume it is plagarism, for nothin was "Stolen" from any "Original Author" that I see.

A lot of information is based from these academics you so aptly named, for where else or we to get our information except from these or our own close observations? So must we quote <i>every single piece of "original thought or literature"</i>? I think everyones post would be lead to many referances on where they got their information in that case. Then what would be the point of sharing info after that??

[Removed_2815]

Check your sources C.m.pyrrhus as you do not have a clear idea of what constitutes plagiarism. Although 100% word-for-word is plagiarism in its extreme (which, incidentally, is the case here - Xain copied word for word) the academic regulation of plagiarism is to put forth as original to oneself the ideas or words of another. Under a strict interpretation of these regulations, the very act of passing off an idea (regardless of word-for-word copying) as one's own without acrediting the original source is plagiarism.
This post need not go on any longer.
These are the rules of life, the moderators have indicated these are the rules of the forum.
Ryan

[dvs]

geez... some people are just way to uptight.

GET OVER IT!!!!!

Thanks for screwing up what "started" out to be a very interesting thread. :grumps:

[Scales Zoo]

DVS, as moderator of this forum, I believe plagiarism is more important keeping with the original topic of the post.

As Ryan B. said, there isn't any more reason to continue the talk about plagiarism, feel free to get back to the "reptile brains" topic, or start a new thread.

Ryan

[Neo]

being interested in psycology i got real excited seeing a thread like this but i guess it had to turn into a debate about plagerism

[Bartman]

ye seriously..whatever if he did or didnt plagerize who cares..i got my answer thanks "whoever wrote that information" and thats all i need.

[ohh_kristina]

It really bugs me that so many people take plagiarism so lightly!! I am working very closely with the professors at the college I attend, and on more than one occassion it has been mentioned to me that they have stopped expelling students for plagriarism because it is so common. That is ridiculous. Look at what we are being taught: to copy! We are supposed to be learning to comprehend and form our own words and opinions. To me, as a "writer", plagiarism is a BIG deal.
As Xain said, though, he did not mean to do it. I sincerely hope that he would have used quotes if he had known the author. But to the rest of you that think it's not a big deal..wow. I am ashamed that our school systems are allowing people to believe that it is not a big deal. You are taking someone elses work, time, and effort and using it as your own. What a shame.

Sorry for the rant, but stuff like this really pisses me off.

[Bartman]

We are not being taught that at all. I dont know about florida but here in toronto my school will go NUTS if they catch you plagerize..my friend just got 30 days suspention for trying it..thats not very light and WAY TO much in my opinion. Maybe 3 days..ya know?

[ohh_kristina]

bartman, then why did you say "who cares" about it? You are obviously not being taught the severity of it all. Being repremanded for doing something bad doesn't always teach you something. You have to learn the emotion behind it.
For example: I used to post my essays, poetry, and short stories online. I had many people that were interested in reading it. One day, I was looking at random web sites and I came across a site that had ALL of my writing, word for word, written with someone else's name on the bottom. Do you know how heart breaking that was for me? I stopped writing for over a year because of that. It was horrifying that someone could steal this stuff that came from my mind and from my heart. Writing was everything to me back then, I tried to write at every waking moment. When you see how easy it is for someone to steal something you worked so hard on, it changes your whole outlook on putting effort into it.

[Bartman]

very true..maybe i said it wrong but i meant "who cares" in a way not for plagerism but not for plagerism on this topic..i wanted to know bout mini reptile brains but i fully understand what you mean. Id kill someone if they stole my hard work..sorry if it came out wrong

[ohh_kristina]

it's okay - it was a misunderstanding. happens all the time :D

[Neo]

sometimes i wish i did have a reptile brain

[Slannesh]

I understand that plagarism is definately a serious issue, moreso in the academic or business world.

But let's get real here, this is an internet herp forum. If the original author or publisher thought their work was being plagarized they would first ask that it be removed or properly credited. I'm certain ssnakess.com would comply.

I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of the issue but come on, have none of you EVER repeated something you saw or read 'somewhere' word for word without giving proper credit? Please.

I would totally agree with RMBolton's position if this was a post secondary class with papers that gave grades and what not. But if i'm smart enought to figure out he was quoting from a book simply because of the sudden change in writing style, I think most people are. Sure he should have said "I read this somewhere" as a preface but would that have been enough for the copyright and plagarism lawyers among us? Doubtful.

I recently quoted something in another thread dealing with CO2 euthenasia. I never claimed to have written the site and I did quote from it, saying I was doing so. But then again I never explicitly spelled out that it was someone else's site either. But the information got to the people who needed it.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Heh, some people.. However, I will play along and will correct myself.
This here is for the original posting I have written and this is now in my own words for any who may care to reread basically what I posted. Please do note a little humor, for all of us non academical/philospher like individuals..
Note: The words in the preceding post and the previous postings are not made up by myself, nor do I know who invented them. However, I learned these words from my parents and mainly from my teachers all through school. Any and all words that may dismay a would be viewer as a copyright or plagiarism, please contact the Teacher of Walters schooling and a few books. (Authors I do not remember)
Also, I do not set out to offend anyone or have anyone hating me for the words I have said or will have said in the before and following posts.

Bartman, what_ your philosopher said was fairly accurate. The human brain shows through dissecting that our (human) brain is made of 3 actual parts. Before our time, vertebrates started with what our brain stem now is, the reptilian brain. This brain causes our instinctual actions such as feeding, other responses and pain. Part of the reptilian brain was then copied and lesser part transformed into what we now call the limbic system; Our "Paleomammalian brain". This brain functions our emotional feelings and our values. It also functions our memory and our ability to solve problems with any and all parties and it plays our social behavior. So forth and so on our brain(s) sooner produced the prior part to our Cerebral cortex, the "Neomammalian brain". This section controls our sensors, Perceptive ability, and gave us our ability to think before we do with the ability of our direct voluntary movements. This part also came to attain our conceptual and linguistic abilities..
.. Now the latter part explains how much smarter crocodilians are to other herps. This is true, Im bad.
-Now to further the accusation of me posting these as my wordings..
As I said above, the brain we now have can and may be divided into the brain stem also known as the reptilian brain, and this is as stated controls our movement - omp! look at my hand go! The stimuli, life regulation, sexuality - rawr- fear and our feelings to have the need of territories. The "Mammalian brain" Say it with me, 'Mam-ma-lian'
regards our communication and emotions. The neocortex_ (dorsal region of the vertebral cortex) controls our ideas, symbols, abstract, linear thought, object/subject. The reticular formation is a part of the Reptilian brain. This lil' puppy makes me aroused.. Why you ask? Well, because this thing controls our arousal, stress and the rest of these silly things. I'm such the philosopher. Wait Im not done..
We also have what I and the rest of the people who likes hippos call the Thalamus. this is atop the brain stem in the forebrain. This only happens for the mammalian brain, however. This particular part of the brain filters data, emotions, and our fight or flight routine.. Someone's Thalamus is over running but I shall not name names.. Our hypothalamus is the case for our physical expression of emotion, turn that frown up side down.
The prefrontal cortex reasons, organizes memorize and worry. I can't find my shoe..
Anyhow here's my thoughts on the subject. In my own words mind you. Take it as you will, or as you want..

Eyespy, I understand your situation, and as I stated earlier, I give credit when I can however I can. In this case I have what I posted written down, no site address or name and just purely wrote what I had. If someone doesn't like the fact, send them my way. I also noticed why is ssnakess so worried about getting sued as with every other site Ive been to do everything you guys dont do in the fear of being sued. Just a question Im curious about. You guys have your rules and as a member I will accept them. I agreed to when I signed up and I will continue to do so. Sorry.

RM, your ethics and mine may not be the same so dont contribute me to them. I will follow my ethics as I see fit. Also, I did not not write my own wordings for a few reasons and for those reasons it was a lot faster to post what I already had. Like it or not, what's been done has been done and the results were many people being helped and a guy getting upset. My ladder is what I care about. My defense isn't anything but an apology to the others who may or may not have thought I wrote this. Whether you like it or not gives me very little dismay of my on going day. Judge me as you will,
- but you will never take away my freedom - Hmm..
Oh, also I never claimed to be innocent Im just declaring my details, mainly not really to you, again. People may catch me? They have nothing to catch. So I messed up being in a hurry to help a friend in need, my bad.
Now accusing me for always doing this is silly. But I guess one or two mishaps leads grounds for aborting me. Though, like I said before, I do not wish to impress anyone, nor do I really care if someone may think I copied a sentence or two. I do care about helping someone in need if I have the answer, mine or not. And as Ive said before, I give credit when I can wherever I can. Oh, I admitted to this 'mistake' (written by RMBolton) around the first post after I was-what was it? Oh, found out. I have not lashed out at anyone, though I can if you want? I have not done this because it is against the rules. I have done nothing but give valid reasons why I did what I did. Everyone else must be lashing out, too. You guys are so bad. Shame. As Ive said before, believe as you will, I careless. Everyone seems to get the idea except you so lets go beyond rulings and buy a dog. And also as Ive said my work force will not evolve around herps, it is a 'mere hobby for me and what I do is mainly for personal use and for help when it is called for. I am not in school for this either and being I graduated has to account for something.. I understand my discretion, I shall speak as I will, whether it be like an academic or being like a G-dawg in souff central, my rules of my speaking will attain to me and only me. Thou aren't thy teacher tis' fore thy shall rhythm as thy please. As for me to you, people don't enjoy "crashers" (Im not sure who invented this, please forgive me) so if you hate what I am doing, I am available by PM or email.

Now for any and all to see, The first post I posted was in fact a copywrite. Where from, I do not know and will gladly give it once I find out. The source RMBolton posted was not by the same place and may not be the same guy so I will not accredit the posting towards him. However, I am sorry for any confusion I may have brought onto anyone and Mods forgive me for not applying to any and all rules you have up somewhere for this site. RMBolton, just in case you can't pinpoint it this time, this is an apology and my accreditation of my original posting..
Xain

[Derrick]

hehe I would like to see whats on the hard drivers of all those who are crying foul about plagarism. Bets are that there is some mp3s or has been in the past. Guess what thats straight out theft. Xain in no way profited from what was posted.

Academic standards for Plagirism and Copyright law are 2 seperate issues. I spent half the day at work researching canadian copyright law and after wading throught a the BS lawyer crap from what i can tell there was no problem. I am awaiting clarification on a couple of issues from the Canadian Copyright Act secretariat I kinda want to see where the boards liabily fits into this whole issue. One of my sisters friends in law school just laugh this whole ordeal.

[eyespy]

Krokadilyan Guy, I worry about ssnakess.com being sued because my ex-husband is an art director for the Publications Dept. of a large university and they have lost several lawsuits after publishing things that turned out not to have been written by the author under their contract, and some of those lawsuits were from website forums. Their legal defense fees ran into the millions of dollars because of a handful of people not crediting their sources properly.

The academic world takes the republication of materials very seriously as research is quite expensive and is only partially reimbursed through book sales. Penalties for not crediting sources can be pretty severe fines. I'd hate to see this site run into such troubles.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Agreed eyespy, and being so if you must remove the post it's completetly cool with me. Xain

[Cas]

QUOTE]Originally posted by ohh_kristina
That is ridiculous. Look at what we are being taught: to copy! We are supposed to be learning to comprehend and form our own words and opinions. [/QUOTE]

Heh heh.... no, we're being taught to copy as long as we make sure they know who we are copying. I don't know about other disciplines, but I know in psychology and biology, any paper you write has every single line of text referenced....... one of my psych profs actually told me that we're not considered to have any relevant thoughts on the subject yet, and every sentence in our paper must be followed by a reference. We're taught more to condense than to think.

Dawn