Southeastern Hot Herp Society Speakout Topic

[SCReptiles]

Hey guys, I just updated the topic on the my speakout page. Would like to get everyone’s opinion on this. We (SCR) are spilt on this issue. If you respond, please include the basis of your opinions. Thanks!

http://www.venomousreptiles.org/speakout/opinions/62

[Mustangrde1]

Chuck as responsible keeper it would be great to have our own supply. However last I heard to have "exotic av." you need to have a special permit from the federal government. Ray would know more about that or maybe Brian than I would. So unless the feds will allow you to have it and we know those odds. We are SOL for now. Native av. I do believe you can buy. Morally any hot keeper should know of at least 3 sources for av. before owning one.

One of the problems with AV. is that some species do not even have one and if it wasn't for private keepers learning through trial and error how to keep some of the species in captivity there probably wouldn't be near as much that is available today.

So its a double edge sword. Yes, we have responsibility to have some or at least know where its available but in the same token the labs producing AV. and the governments should be more willing to allow people to have AV. especially the keepers who put so much in to learning about these animals and how to keep them alive.

Another point of fact is the cost for AV. and people as a rule. I thought about this and say for example only, AV. is 30 dollars a vial and you need 10 vials minimum that's 300 bucks. Most people go that's to much, but in the same token they will think nothing of spending 400 for a mamba. Silly logic in my eye. spend the full 700 and get both. That is responsible.

Should the states require it? Do you really want to open that can of worms? What is needed however is a central AV. bank with locations in all states. And possibly have people make donations or payments to them to keep AV. in the event someone is bitten. If it is a paying or donating member then your investment has paid off. If it is a general public member they need to pay for the AV. and a restocking fee. Just an idea.

Scott

[MouseKilla]

I don't keep hots myself though I may consider it (carefully) one day. It seems to me though that since you generally need to be licenced to in some way keep hots that the cost of keeping an AV bank (whether public or member based) could be rolled into that price. It's an idea that is used for a variety of things such as cigarette taxes for public health care. It is accepted that people make the personal choice to do things that occasionally cause them to need care. If they don't have the means to aquire this care then the cost is invariably passed on to the public for humanitarian reasons. No matter how foolish it was for someone to smoke themselves into cancer or mess with a deadly snake and end up being envenomated we, as a society, don't turn them away to die if we can help it. For that reason those most likely to have those needs are taxed up front for the eventual costs to the system. While no one likes to pay for the mistakes of the few stupid people out there it's better in my eyes to have life saving things readily available for everyone than to have to try to save yourself. It's impractical for everyone to keep their own AV just as it is for everyone one to keep all the supplies of a emergency room.

[cobraman]

The stocking of your own EXOTIC antivenins requires a BB-IND permit (not easy to get -- it helped that my sister is a doctor, and sponcered me). To stock crofab or wyeth polyvalant only requires a doctors script. The cost should not even be a consideration. I don't know that I would recommend every hot keeper stocking their own AV, BUT I do think it is your responcibility to at very least know where you can obtain it quickly if (or when) it is needed. That should not be left to your local E.R. doctor to figure out while you lay there dying. Florida has a good antivenom bank. Maybe all states should consider following our lead on that.
Blessings
Ray Hunter

[dlucka]

For me hot snake have to come with AV, from where i am you can't have AV in hospital, only in zoo and there is not much zoo around.
The second thing is if you get bite then you need AV you will have to pay it any way so you better be ready and have it on hand, you'll save time and money. I know it's like having a assurance, you paid for a situation that might never happen but when it happen you're happy to have it.

[gaboon77]

I keep a kinds of hots and do not worry about AV if your going to get bit theres nothing you can do about it..
I have been bitten a few times i guess i,m lucky because,they do not usually inject the hand that feeds them,and if they do it is only very small amounts,VERY painful do not atempt this at Home,ER DR,s in Ontario do not like it when you come in and say you have been bitten by a hot snake......

[cobraman]

Gaboon77, You're kidding, Right??? Yeah, you must be!

[Mustangrde1]

Correct me if im wrong but isn't a feed responce normally a very high yield of venom. Now granted I could be wrong but I think someone is so full of it we all need to put on chestwaders to read that post.

[C.m.pyrrhus]

I live in AZ, and legally we can only keep native species. Therefore I do not keep any AV at home, knowing that the hospital carries enough crotalid AV anyhow.

I do other things as well, such as safe handling practices, a plan when things may go wrong and so on. I can see where it would be needed if you had several species of different backgrounds, i.e. elapids and crotes. I really do not see the need myself to carry any. I dont think that having your own AV is all that much of a guarantee as well, but not a bad idea.

This also brings up another point, what can I do about milking venom from my own stock of crotes? To whom do I speak to or where do I go for this information?

[cobraman]

C.m.pyrrhus. You CAN milk you own venom if you wish, but what are you going to do with the venom??? I do venom extractions, but most of it is for my self immunization shots. The venom itself is no good to you unles you are selling it, in which case you would have to have a lab to process it. The actual antivenin is made from horses and sheep by immunizing the animals to the specific venom over a period of about 18 months.

[C.m.pyrrhus]

I do have acsses to lab areas, and I know how the AV process works. I just feel I could be "helping out" by using some of my own snakes in my collection. If I new of a lab (perhaps I may do a little looking around) that did buy venom I would be able to sell some of it, as I know there is trouble finding venom in most cases for developing AV. I did work with a few folks a few years back collecting crotes for ASU studies in vemon, which most was used for AV production. I just have never got around to doing anything lately so far with my own crotes, or with any others for that matter. I may just talk to someone in ASU again or look around with folks in the AHA for more info.