records of a neo corn

[reverendsterlin]

I thought I would give a break down on one of this years neonates. I picked the creatively named #5 because she's about the middle sized baby. Born 7-1-03, first measurement 7-7-03 12 inches and 8 grams, first shed 7-7-03. She was fed 6 pinks before being moved up to fuzzies, her second shed was 8-9-03. She was fed 5 fuzzies before being moved to hoppers, on 9-12-03 she weighed 24 grams. She was fed 6 hoppers before being moved up to 14+ gram juvi mice, on 10-5-03 she measured 19 inches and 38 grams, shed on 10-18-03, and has fed on juvi mice her last 2 feedings, currently weighs 47 grams. Figuring on another shed I estimate 2-3 more feedings before starting to cool for the winter. I figure she's doing alright for only 19 feedings.

[Simon]

nice~
I guess she's doing fine for you~
but then one thing. Why would you want to put her under burmation? She's a hatchling (well a huge hatchling..lol), she's not going to be breeding so why put her on burmation where as you can just continue to feed her as is? Make her grow more and maybe if she gets big and fat enough for 2005 you can even breed her.

Just from what I think...I would continue feeding her through this winter or maybe even through next winter. At least that is what I am going to be doing with my hatchlings for sure...

[Tim_Cranwill]

Nicely done Rev! I have been slacking a bit with my hatchlings this year. I haven't been moving them up a prey size nearly as quickly as I could be. I'm wondering the same thing as Simon though... :)

[reverendsterlin]

lol, thats easy, I'm a graduate student and a 2-3 month break on feeding expenses gives me a little breathing room. And it obviously won't hurt them to miss a couple of meals lol.

>Simon"Make her grow more and maybe if she gets big and fat >enough for 2005 you can even breed her."
My female 02's are running 270-290 grams and except for the smallest I expect them all to be over 300 grams and ready for breeding this season.

[BoidKeeper]

Holly cow Rev. I just moved my July babies onto Fuzzies and one June is still on large pinkies. I better step up the pase a bit.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Tim_Cranwill]

The only '02 corn I have left is 350g! :D But he's a male so it's not too important how much he weighs...

[Simon]

..............
man..I guess that I better kick myself and start feeding them like crazy....it usually takes me 3 years before I can breed them. Just nice and slow....lol...

cranwill,
yes you are right...I too am not moving up to other sizes as quickly as I can be too...maybe we should start feeding larger prey items..just to pump them up a bit...

[Tim_Cranwill]

Ha ha... slow and steady does win the race. I was just really eager to get my '02 snakes going because I wanted a few of them to be breedable in 2004. This year I'm not quite as eager I guess... :D

[marisa]

I personally don't care when my babies move up as I am in no rush but my little '03's were all on fuzzies at three months or less. A pinky or two just wasn't cutting it at all anymore! :D

Marisa

[sapphire_moon]

How big do you all suggest before moving up to adult mice?

[Tim_Cranwill]

It's really a matter of comparing the snake to the food item. Some adult mice you might buy are smaller than others. Sorry to answer your question in such a "non-answer" way but it's the truth. If you mean age or length, my 350g male ate his fisrt adult at about 1 year of age but that's just him....
hope this helped. :)

[reverendsterlin]

I will move my neos to adults in the begining of March so they will be 8 months. Like Cranwill said size varies, though less depending where you buy. I know the juvis I buy run from 14-18 grams and all my neos are currently eating them, the same company I know the adult mice are 20-25 grams, about the time the neos turn 1 year old I will agian move them up to jumbo mice that run 35-45 grams.

>Marisa "I personally don't care when my babies move up"

Thats nice, but then again this thread was focused towards folks that do have an interest in growth rates, feeding rates, and comparisons. Some folks enjoy the more technical aspects of the hobby.

[Will]

This is kinda interesting. I'm gonna add one of my Cal Kings(I know this was a corn topic, but I'm watching the Hockey game and need something else to occupy my time). Plus it gives me an excuse for browsing through my records. I'll choose the one that has been a non-stop eater since I got her. I'd like to hear some other bios of other snakes if people want to share.

An albino Cal King named Leela. I picked her up on 5-22 this year and she was sold to me as a yearling, probably a late '02 hatch. She was 61g(no lengths) and was feeding on Fuzzies when I got her. I moved her up to hoppers right away and she shed for me on 6-07. She was off feed for 3 weeks near the end of June(I was in Australia), other than that she has eaten every 4 days for me since and has not missed a single meal. In Aug/Sept she ate 14 times(all hopper mice), usually 1 at a time, sometimes plus whatever her room-mates refused. After her shed on Aug 7(I weigh after each shed) she weighed 93g. After she shed on Sept 8, she weighed 111g. After her Oct 10 shed, she was up to 154g. If she keeps her shed cycle even, she should shed sometime around the 12th-15th, and I'm guessing she will be over 200g. On her Oct 27th meal, I moved her to small adult mice. She won't be bred next season, and so I won't be brumating her or any of her mates unless they go off feed themselves.

I think she's put on alot off weight this season, but she just won't refuse food and she holds the weight nicely(ie. she's not 'Fat'). I just weighed her(with yesterdays' meal in her) at 203g, but that'll go down once she poops. So in 162 days that she's been with me, she's gained about 140g.

It always amazes me once you start moving up the prey sizes how quickly their weights rocket up. She is by far the fastest grower I've ever had, the rest of her mates are in the mid 100's, but if she stays on feed this winter, she should easily push 300g by Christmas. My oldest male is a year older than her and he weighed 357g when I put him down for the winter. SHe should easily pass him next year.

[marisa]

reverendsterlin- Just so you know, before you assume and state I am not interested in "technical" aspects, I meant I am not interested in feeding for super growth, as in "power feeding" as in not interested in pushing them before they are ready, but even at that, mine have moved up. That was the meaning of my statement.

But um yeah thanks for clearing up the meaning of this thread for me?

Marisa

[reverendsterlin]

sorry for a quick jump marisa. I included the info for comparison and growth rates. Accompaning the prey change to hoppers the neos were switched to a 7 day schedule(except for shed times) so not to allow fat build up though others will say that a neo cannot be overfed because of food to growth conversion over the first year. My own view was developed from field observation. Seldom did one find neonate snakes in the barn or hay houses(often sleeping in the mice nests they raided) with small bellies, in most cases several or all babies were eaten in a single session(typical behavior on an animal in 'feeding mode'). By the time they dropped out of site in October they were not as small as many pet snakes I see at a year age. I start my crotalus atrox neos on hoppers because the size and movement stimulates the feeding response where a fuzzy will be ignored. I find that most cases of 'over feeding' is with older animals that no longer convert food to growth with any speed. My older animals that aren't used to breed the following year are on 10-20 day schedules and may only shed one or two times a year and easily maintain their weight. I guess I just don't understand the "pushing them before they are ready" view, I never assist fed or forced fed any of these neos beyond their first 1-3 meals after birth, just offered them prey. If it was too large they would not have been able swallow it.

Will, thats some good info. Seems your achieving a 25-30% increase in weight between sheds. The only king/milk I have that eats larger than a large juvi mose is the mexi black. The rest prefer hoppers or the occasional small juvi. Keeping and watching growth rates I feel is a better indicator of how an animal should be fed than age or anything else. I figure none of my older adults increase weight more than 2-8% over a year(11-50grams), while in 4 months my neos have increase 300% in weight. Record keeping and comparing can do much to improve verifiable husbandry knowledge.