How to heat this cage????

[AnniesMom]

http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/dcage11.html

OK, this is an awesome cage, but how would I heat it? I would prefer to avoid heat tape if I can, out of fear. It is a double cage, with the top cage and bottom being seperated by 3/4" plywood. Basically a big box split in two. The bottom section can be heated with a heating pad under the cage, attached underneath. Lots of air flow under cage as it is off the ground. But what about the upper cage? Any heating attached to the bottom of the upper cage is exposed to the lower cage. HELP????

[Linds]

Is there any allowance for heat tape or heat pads between the two levels? If not I'd say radiant heat panels may be the best option. Why are you afraid of using heat tape? You can always get ready to use reptile heating pads and mats if you are intimidated by wiring it yourself.

[Jeff_Favelle]

It is totally impossible for anyone to tell you how to heat that cage without knowing what animal would be going inside. I can think of 5 different animals that I would heat RADICALLY different in that cage.

Sigh......

[AnniesMom]

It is a single sheet of plywood between the two levels. It is possible to make a false floor on the second level and then I would have a space between the two cages for heating. Access to that space is an unknown though. I am terrified of electricity, so using a non CSA approved build youself heating systems scares me!! The radiant panels sound like a good idea, though. Is it hot enough to burn the snakes? They should be hung on the side of the cage? For these two cages, what size would you recommend? The cages are 4'long by 2' wide by 2' tall. Big Apple has a couple of different sizes and I'm wondering which one would be best. Living on Vancouver Island, we don't get to cold usually, and the room in which they are kept is heated to about 15-20C. Sorry for all the questions, but I'd rather ask for help then mess up. This is a long term home for these two and I want it to be the best environment for them


http://www.bigappleherp.com/Reptile_Supplies/Product/Desert_Rays_Radiant_Heat_Panels_118100.html


Jeff: there will be a BCI in each cage.

[Linds]

Radiant Heat panels are one of the safest devices to use. YOu r snake cannot get burned if he makes contact with them, unlike CHE and light bulbs.

[AnniesMom]

Thanks Linds. The guys at Big Apple have recommended that I put a 11"x23" Desert Rays radiant heat panel and a thermostat that both can hook up to to control the heat. In your opinion, whould it be best to mount the panels on the tops of the cages, or hanging from the side?

[maiden_canada]

wow anniesmom thats an awesome cage(s)! how much does it cost to ship one heat panel to victoria?

[AnniesMom]

I don't know Maiden. I haven't asked yet. The panels are $40 US each and the thermometer is about $17, I think. I'm going to see if I can get them here in Canada, hopefully in Victoria, but I'mnot counting on it. I picked up all the wood today for the cage. I'm not using panelling like Clay did, but good one side plywood. The panelling would make it really heavy. I'm going to Langford tomarrow and plan to get my Plexi then from Home Depot.

[sapphire_moon]

how do you clean plexi to make it not streak???? We are putting together our BP cage and the plexi has saw dust on it and when we tried glass cleaner it streaked.........and warm water took most of the streaks away but when we looked at it from head on the sun was shinning on it, it had little rainbows on it that looked 3-D!!!! (Hopefully we will be able go get some pics of the cage and all the snakes once everything is done.....but thats only hopefully!)


BTW........Georgeous cage! You said you were picking up the wood, are you making it yourself?

[Linds]

I've never heard anything about Desert Rays, and have actually only seen a pic of one once before and they looked IDENTICAL to both Ultratherm and Cobra heat mats. I looked them up just now and they are even fabricated the same way. I am terribly confused as to how this would function the same way as traditional heat panels do, I have several Cobra heat mats and the only thing they do is heat whatever surface they are mounted on :confused: Maybe someone can better explain this to me? Most people use either Pro Products or Helix panels. Helix I believe comes with a 10 year warranty on their panels. Not sure about Pro Products.

http://www.pro-products.com/proheat.html

[AnniesMom]

Sapphire Moon: I've heard you just use water to clean plexi. Someone said that glass cleaner makes it look foggy. I'm building the cage at my parents house cause they have a full workshop and my Dad is a genius with wood so we can do it together.

Linds: I've sent an email off to Pro Products to get an estimate for their heating panels. According to Big Apple, the panels radiate heat, but never having seen or used them I don't know anything else about them. Where are Helix available from?

[AnniesMom]

Linds, I found the Helix panel at JustHerps.com and it look like it only heats as much as area as it actually covers, ie 11x16" heats 176sq.inches. This doesn't strike me as a radiating heat source, but more like a heating pad. I thought the panels were meant to radiate heat over a larger area? I sent an email to Pro Products asking them about their panels, so we will see what they have to say. By the Helix panels info, I would need to panel the entire roof of the cage to heat it. That strikes me as a LOT of heat. And a lot of $$. I wonder if heat cord, like they use on the pipes in Ontario, would work if I mounted it on the underside of the cages in an "s" wavy pattern to spread the heat out?

[maiden_canada]

anniesmom, ive heard that at walmart there are human heating pads with low,med,high settings that work well for snakes, turn it on low and put it under the heating pad. i have NOT tried this, but have been told by a few reliable people that it works.

[AnniesMom]

Maiden, I have one of the pads already, and I can use it for the lower cage, but not for the upper. I don't plan on putting any substate in the cages, and I don't think that the pad should be in the cage bare.

[maiden_canada]

do those pads work well? im getting a jcp soon and i would rather use that then a undertank heater because it doesnt stick to the cage and you can take it off after right?

[AnniesMom]

I use mine when I have to take the snakes anywhere in their portable cages. I think to use for regular use, just put it under the cage, making sure that the cage is off the ground a bit so that there is airflow. The one that I bought is a wet/dry pad, so I could put it in the cage under substrate, as long as the heat was regulated by a thermostat

[AnniesMom]

Linds, in a previous post, way long ago, you recommended flexwatt heat tape. I shied away from it out of fear, but the more I look at this cage, the more I think that I will have to use it. If I used the 11" wide tape, would I need to extend the tape down the entire length of the cage (4') or just for part of it? Or can it be attached to the BACK of the cage on the outside? My concern is the snake in the lower cage may touch the heat tape for the upper cage, which is exposed to his cage.

[Grant vg]

Bob Pound at pro products is the place to go when buying heat panels...

He takes the time to talk and figure out what size heat panel you would need.

Pro products offers the 10 year warranty with no questions asked. i think Helix; is less, but dont quote me on that.
However, with my dealings with both helix and pro products, i can tell you that pro products definately has there act together more then helix.

The heat panels wont neccessarily heat your WHOLE enclosure, but they will heat a comfortable hot spot as well as up the ambient a bit if used correctly with a thermostat.

your basically spending less then a hundred bucks to heat a big cage for 10 years +
and from experience, heat panels beat flex watt, lights, uth's anyday.

gvg

[Grant vg]

oh, and maybe i should add that you may want to consider upping one size from what bob reccomends... he usually reccomends a size that will run full blast to reach the temps. where as i prefer a hotter heat panel that wont need to be on 24/7.

gvg

[AnniesMom]

Thanks for the info Grant! Can the panels be used to create a hot spot and use flexwatt to raise the ambient? As per my previous question, do you know if you can put flexwatt on the back of the cage?

[Grant vg]

annie,
you shouldn't have a problem with just the heat panels as your only heating source, unless of course your ambient is below 75..

You CAN put flex watt on the back of the enclosure, however, in my experience, flew watt doesn't really provide too much ambient heat other then the spot that it is heating.
Even more so, if it was on the back of a cage...
you'd basically have to put the probe of a thermostat on the inside back wall, and that back side would reach the temp you wanted, but thats all it would do...
any ambient heat would be lost as the heat would rise and that hot spot on the back of the enclosure would do next to nothing for your snake.
Where as a heat panel, will radiate heat on one side to provide a 90 degree hot spot, then just to the left of it in the middle would be say 84 degrees and then the non heated side would be 80 degrees, giving you a great thermal gradient.
even in my old 4 foot melamine enclosures... the heat tape only really heated that hot spot. anything an inch or two away from it was the same temperature as 3 feet away.

gvg

[AnniesMom]

Grant, thanks so much. I got an email from the BeanFarm and they said that I should put in 12x12 panels in the cages.