Breeding snakes for a living.

[geko]

First some background from myself:

I have lived a hard life and made some bad choices such as droping out of school at 15 but now im 18 and taking night classes for my g.e.d and working full time at my lps.

My parents always said i would be working at a cardboard box factory making $4 a hour and my dad still does to this day. I dont plan to go to college since obviously school isnt my thing so i feel breeding snakes would be a nice occupation for me.

Ill be the first to say i know very little about snakes but im learning everyday and im also willing to learn what ever it takes to breed snakes and make a living out of it.

Could anyone point me in the right dirrection to some informative articles about breeding snakes in general. Im not looking for any specific snakes to breed but rather the basics.

My step dad who im currently living with said he would build be a snake house out back and im sure it would be nice since he is a carpenter :)

This would be the best living for me considering i keep snakes as a hobby and whats a better excuse to let me get a whole house of them since it would be for my future :D

[Oliverian]

I've heard it's very hard even making a little profit in this hobby, let alone making a living. But some people manage to do it, although it takes a lot of hard work. Many of us breed reptiles as a sideline to other jobs. But if you do decide to do it, good luck. I'm sure someone with more experience than me can give you some better advice.
-Tammy

[geko]

Well i e-mailed a few webmasters that breed snakes and sell online and asked about this topic and they said its a nice living but alot of work.

I figured if i had enough snakes to breed and sold online and at expo's the money would be nice.

[BrandonVeenstra]

Well... yes you can make a good profit. But you need to invest ALOT to get any return. Someone Like Corey Woods make have 100,000's worth of snakes.. but he had to invest just as much to get what he has now.. so you need a good initial base amount to start off.. just my 0.02$

[mykee]

Yeah, I agree. There are only what, maybe a small handful of people who actually breed and sell snakes for a living, and they have all been at it for many many years. It takes a lot of experience and a buttload of start-up cash to do something like that. You're going to need plenty of breedable females, that costs some serious cash, depending on what snakes you would like to breed. Also keep in mind that in order for you to have enough snakes to sell, you'd have to have a hell of a lot to breed. That could take a LONG time, I'm guessing at least 5 or 6 years. I would definitely get that GED.

[Oliverian]

Yep. Good luck. But consider that a lot of the money you make will be put back into new cages, feeders, supplies, etc. It might be hard to get enough even to pay for food for yourself, let alone housing and everything else. But if you are really serious and determined, I believe you could do it. It just takes a LOT of work.
-Tammy R

[geko]

Thanks for all the replies.

I have two people that will be helping including my step dad and my best friend who also wants to breed them with me. I know it will take time and money but im willing to dish out whatever i can to make it happen.

We will start off slow of cource only breeding a few and with the money we make back on the babies we will buy more breeding pairs. I can breed rats/mice so that will be cheaper in the long run and for right now we would keep our jobs and save up and maby one day 5-10 years down the road we could be sitting pretty nice with the best job a snake hobbiest could ask for!

Does anyone know any good articles btw?

[Wildkingdom]

I have a friend who has been in the buisness for 15 years and she can finally sit at home with this and be almost comfortable. She has over 350 breeding snakes at her house, but like I said almost comfortable. It takes many years to get where you want to be and do it full time. Unless you have enough money in your bank account that you can live (pay bills, buy food etc...) you better think about getting a job then when you get to a comfortable level, then do it full time, unless of course you are going to live at home till your 40 and never have to pay anything out. You just need to be sure 5 - 10 years down the road you will be sitting pretty and that is for sure the direction you wanna take your life. Not meaning to nag but a little advice never hurt anyone!!!

Tammy

[Invictus]

Ok, here's some more harsh reality for you.

Erin and I have 27 snakes, many of which are either current breeding pairs, or will be in the future. I get mice for 50 cents (for adults), rats for dirt cheap, and rabbits for $1/pound. It costs us over $100/month to feed just the snakes we have now. Needless to say we are not making a living off of this. In order to make a decent living by today's standards, you need to clear about $2000/month. This means you will either have to have a SERIOUS chunk of change up front to breed albino boas or womas or something expensive (which will only sell once in a blue moon, because not everyone has $1500 and up for a snake), or you need to be breeding enough cheap snakes that are still in high demand to live off of it. $2000 = 45 corn snakes PER MONTH. That's 540 corn snakes a year. That's 27 breeding pairs, and even then, there is no guarantee they will sell. What will you do if you have a dry month? Are your snakes going to starve? If they don't sell, given that they produce at the same time, can you afford to feed 540 mouths every 5 days? No you cannot. Not if the snakes aren't selling.

It's a harsh reality, but it is the reality of the situation. You need to sell a LOT of snakes to do it exclusively as a living and few people are able to do it. Get your high school. Get some secondary even if it's just a certificate or diploma. Either that or get used to starvation.

[Wildkingdom]

Hey Invictus, where you getting your rats for dirt cheap from? PM me or something...lol...talk to you soon

Tammy

[Mike177]

Like Invictus said it is VERY hard to make a liveing off breeding snakes, it takes LOTS of money up front and to really make a liveing of it you need not to just breed the most expensive and valuble morphs but create the expensive valuble morphs yourself. so basicly once a new morph is imported all the big name breeders want it. and your going to have to be able to offer more money then everyone one else to get it, witch will not be cheap, if you still really want to breed snakes for a liveing start out breeding cheaper snakes with a demand and see how that goes, then make the decition on weather you want to try it for a liveing.

[geko]

Just look at BRB's..

They have anywhere from 10-30 babies and lets say one did have 30 babies. If you sold all of them for $150 which is average online thats $4,500.

I am in no way wanting to get rich off this or even gain a nice car and house i just want enough money to keep food in my house and have a little cash for other things and if my math is right this can be done with a little hard work, time and dedication.

Also i will be breeding rats/mice so its cheaper and me and my friend are doing this together so thats two incomes and we will also be roomates spliting half on rent so with both of us working and selling snakes i think this would be nice but i guess theres only one way to find out :P

[Wildkingdom]

Just one question? Do you have any kind of experience in breeding snakes? Just curious cause it seems you have no plans in getting a job but doing this full time?

Tammy

[asphyxia]

IMO. nothing ventured nothing gained, Give it your best shot and good luck to you. The experience you can get in any business is good, just learn form your mistakes, and if this does not workout try somthing else your into.

All the best
Brian

[geko]

Lol did you read my first post?

This thread was suposed to be about me learning as in youall giving me advice and articles so that i could learn and i do plan to keep my job at the LPS untill i breed enough to keep a steady income.

[asphyxia]

I realized that?

[Simon]

well other than money up front, you'll definately need a lot of reputation.
Yes a BRB can give up to 30 babies at once. But then you'll have to first feed it a few times before letting it go. Thus money. Then you'll need enclosures to fit them all in. Again money. Then cleaning = time. And not all 30 would want to eat right away and some may die during the process so maybe you lose 5. So you have 25 more. But then breeding, raising up the babies (offering them at least 3 meals or more before letting them go) this can only be done once a year. So 25 * 150 = 3750. Looks like good cash right? Well you'll have to minus eletric, water cost. Say $200 a year (real small amount I say but lets make things simple.) So okay after all those costs you gain $3550 a year. Then you'll have to divide it up by 12 months So that's around 295.83 a month. Then minus the feeding. Since Invictus said that he has 27 snakes (that is good for our little model.) and he is paying around $100 for all 27 snakes. Since you have 25 babies and 2 adult brbs, that's 27 snakes. So take 100 dollars off your 295.83 a month. That's 183.83 that you are earning a month. But of course you'l have to take away the inital investment that you have put in in raising the adluts and gettin the adults. Well....basically you MAYBE able to earn a few bucks a month. This is also based on the fact that you have sold ALL YOUR BRB HATCHLINGS! This is quite hard if you don't have any reputation or anything like that.

So in my opinion, unless you have tons of money to start off with and tons of time and space......dont even think about it....you're not toing to be gaining $$ from them. There are chances that they might take more money and time from you than making any money at all....

There are just so much things that you hve to think about before doing this. I would suggest you to finish your high school and try and get higher standards before thinking about this. Just my opinion....

[CDN-Cresties]

Well put Simon. :)

-Steve-

[boa]

Damn simon well said man.he is 100% right way to be simon.

[geko]

asphyxia when i said that i was replying to Wildkingdom lol sorry i should have quoted him!

[geko]

1.time is all i have

2.as i said ill be breeding rats/mice and i get feed for dirt cheap

3.space is not a problem

4.enclosures are cheap for babies. Rubbermaids = very cheap and for full grown my step dad is a carpenter so again very cheap

5.my step is riging me up a heating system that will be more energy efficient

6.this project will be a two man job so it will be less stress and work than it would if it was just me

[NewLineReptile]

Very well put Simon!

What he said is so true. I have tried to breed many snakes at a time to make money. But like Simon said it cost money and you need a rep before you could sell them. Because no REP means you are just like any body else that are not breeders you will have to sit on your babies until they sell. And that cost's you.
So i now just breed a few snake's on my free time. And just sell to help with bills to keep the snakes i have.

Even big breeders have other job's then just breeding

Best of luck to you
Brandon

[sapphire_moon]

Gecko I understand where you are coming from...........

I really can't say anymore than everyone else has........

You probably aren't going to be able to be comfortable in 5-10 years as you want.....you will probably be just begining!
You have to establish yourself as a reputable breeder. Have the money to get more than 4-5 good breeding pairs (if you want to make money off of it!)............plus have the money for breeding rats (more nutritional than mice and a bit more bigger enclosure for them), bedding water and food for them, and maybe a few vet bills.......plus in part of becoming a reputable breeder you would probably want to offer a clean bill of health with your snake which you can't do without a vet trip.........

so good luck...........

[Lisa]

Making a living from snakes isn't easy. It's a tough market and breeding them isn't always something you can depend on. There are other ways to make money with reptiles, via edjucation and accessories.

also there are other things you can do after high school such as learn a trade such as plumbing, electrical, carpentry (you even have some one you can apprentance with) and many of these skills would help you in a herp field.

[maiden_canada]

im with Lisa on this one. you dont seem to like school much, so be an apprentice in a trade like carpentry. you can be a carpenter and breed snakes, almost everyone who breeds snakes for profit have other jobs too, if you dont want to do that you can also work at mcdonalds, and breed snakes :)

[mykee]

Geko; you wanted advice? Seems that's exactly what you're getting.
Invictus; $2000/month = decent living? I'm moving into your neighbourhood as soon as I can!!!

[maiden_canada]

calgary = low taxes, cheap townhouses

[Solid Snake]

you are very lucky to have a dad that is a carpenter. its a very fun carreer! u can be a carpender and breed snakes, hey thats what i would do, and a carpenter makes more than a snake breeder...

[maiden_canada]

how much does a carpenter make? like 40grand average? my friends dad is one and they have a very nice house in a good neighborhood, geko think of that and some from ur snake breeding :P

[Yness]

Geko...do you even have a snake? Try owning a snake and taking care of one ...monitoring the temps and humidity, feeding etc...See if you actually like having a snake...then think about breeding. I know that I have no interest in breeding but i love having a snake...and i have to go with everyone else...Get your grade twelve...then if you want a job that is interesting and dynamic..get your pharm tech certificate (i have mine) and do the snake thing on the side...the program is only 10 months here in winnipeg...Good luck and all the best.

[seann]

Gecko Breed Dogs! man pure breds go for enough money! and about the carpeting thing! carpeting and any other kinds of trades make enuff money!! i am going to go into a trade! some plumbers welders electricians make 100 dollers an hour now thats sweet!

[Ron]

Breeding snakes for a living would be fantastic but even the some of the largest breeders have day jobs. For example Corey Woods here in Canada or Ralph Davis in the States.

I don't know where people get the idea that Calgary is a cheap place to live. My girlfriend and I live in a DINK (Dual Income No Kids) household and we clear over $6000/month and we definitely don't have an abundance of spare money.

Breeding dogs would be way harder to get into and create way less profit. After stud fees, puppy vaccinations and raising them for 8 weeks you sure don't make a huge profit per pup.

[BoAddict]

hey man i say all the power to you i wanna do it to i have set some realistic goals as well i started out with a salmon boa and then bought an albino boa as well
its all good to be just high end but you need to think like someone said high end dont sell too quickly so you need alot of $100 - $200 range to do it

ok as far as you having a friend that is gonna help you and room with you from personal experience bad idea you will be spending way too much time together

you said you are gonna breed rats too , well rats cost money too
i have 21 females and 8 males and i go through about 50 pounds of rat chow a month and 2 bales of shavings a month thats $40 + a month now i know its way cheaper than paying a pet store but then you have your cleaning and the SMELL
you may wanna think of going huge with rats first as people are always looking for rats
for example a rat rack that has 18 large tubs 4.1 ratio /tub = 72 females each female say has 10 babies every 2 months thats 720 thats 4320 rats a year avg sell all those say for $2 thats $8640 provided you dont keep any minus say $480 for shavings and food that leaves you with $8160

this is my $0.02

[V.hb]

Learn about herps, and do reptile shows. Once you have made a good buck. responsibly however, dont just sell to any idiot, or you're no better than a pet store. Invest in some nicer animals, and breed. Getting shows is difficult but if you can get a good base of clients, its a good start.

[Lisa]

There is no easy way to become rich. If you want a nice stable income work for some one else. There's been jobs where I've made more then my employer because I got paid an hourly wage and they had to work on a proffit margin.

Don't like learning? Being self employed and breeding snakes isn't for you. when you're self employed you have to deal with taxes, zoning issues, keeping track of your books, and you end up putting in 80 hours a week over a regular joe's 40 (i've been self employed before and you need to work twice as hard for every dollar).

[Invictus]

Ron - if you can't live on $6000/month take-home in Calgary, you are either living WAY beyond your means or just being ridiculous with your Money. Erin and I don't clear anything even remotely close to that, and I pay $500/month in child support. We have a nice house, food on the table, and clothes on our back and still the occasional pennies for herps, plus feeding the ones we have.

Mykee - Yeah, I've heard TO is tough living and requires a higher income. :) But you bring up a good point - in some places, even $2000 doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Geko - You're very ambitious about this endeavor, and that's cool, but another great point has been brought up - reputation. If you want to be shipping snakes Canada-wide, you have to have a great rep for people to want to send you money in the hopes that the herps they paid for will arrive safely. Even some people on this board have had problems selling their snakes WITH a good reputaiton. Imagine what a time you'll have without one. I personally won't send my money across the nation to someone who hasn't had business dealings with someone I trust. But would I send my money to Grant Van Gameren, Corey Woods, Jeff Favelle, or Simon? In a heartbeat! They have a long standing rep of great national business dealings. Guess what... all of them work other jobs too. :)

Hard work alone doesn't cut it in this business. If you have a friend helping you out, that's cool too... but that means you get 1/2 the profits, not 100% of the profits. Now all of a sudden, you've got $4000/month you need to sell, not $2000.

Nonetheless, you seem to be pretty convinced that you can do this, so best of luck to you.

[Ron]

Ken,

I never said that we couldn't live on the $6000/month, I just said we didn't have an abundance of spare cash. When I lived in my condo my mortgage, condo fees, bills and food totaled more than $2000/month. I guess I don't see $2000/month as a decent living.

[geko]

I have snakes for whoever asked that and i know everything i need to know about the snakes i own.

I currently have a BRB, BP, and a JCP.

Invictus, you say you would send your money to Grant Van Gameren, Corey Woods, Jeff Favelle, and thats because you know they have nice snakes and are very good at what they do.

How do you think they got to be so popular in the snake market? They started from somewhere i would guess so thats what im going to do.

Just to clear a few things up also i DONT plan to get rich as i said before and i do plan to keep a second job even if its at my LPS or going to a trade school.

My pasion is animals of any kind. I own the following:

3 snakes - BRB, BP, JCP
1 tiger salamander
1 dog - beagle mix
5 fish tanks - 2 planted
2 fire bellied toads - plan to up it to dart frogs one day

All my life i have had animals. Anywhere from turtles, snakes, rabbits, birds, fish, cats, dogs, amphibians of diffrent sorts.

I set my goals at age 17 to get my life strait and get back in school and find a decent job that i like. My whole family is rich except my mom and she is a LPN. My uncle sells houses and lives in a log cabin that he bulit in the country. My grandpa was the founder of marksburycornett construction. http://www.marksburycornett.com/

I dont want to stand for working a job my whole life that i dont like. Working at a pet store and breeding snakes would be a dream for me even if it doesnt bring in the $$ i will still be happy working with something i love and know about.

Im very good at webdesign and thats another thing i love to do. My site will be up hopfully tonight but heres a pic of it http://stranglethecat.com/Uploads/4/reptiledesigns.gif

Here is my fsh site i made also that will be up tonight as well: http://stranglethecat.com/Uploads/4/fish_site123.gif

With selling snakes, selling websites, and working at my LPS i think i could do pretty good for myself.

[Jayson]

I think someone said it already, but there is a bigger profit margine in the feeder rats then in the snakes. Also there is a much bigger demand. I would start there and keep snake breeding a hobby for now.

[sapphire_moon]

for whoever said breeding dogs...........it is going to cost alot of money. If you have to many dogs then the place may consider it unsanitary. For certain breeds of dogs you have to have tails bobbed, ears cut, and dew claws removed........PLUS you have to pay vet bills while the female is pregnant, plus (unless you have your own) you have to pay stud service fee which doesn't gurantee that your female will get pregnant. You have to give the dog a special diet. PLUS have the room for dog runS outside (you have to have a house basicly). Plus you have to spend the money to puppy proof your house. PLUS you have to have the money to have ALL the dogs registered for them to be worth anything........so it's going to be just as hard breeding dogs as it is snakes!

[reverendsterlin]

you have a rainbow, ball, and jungle. Why not get them paired and see if you can even be successful breeding animals more advanced than corns and kings before you go making great life plans and investing money that might best be used elsewhere. The small breeder can make money breeding high end snakes with low availability, I would love to get into the albino GTP but can't afford the initial investment, if you went with piebald bp you could expect $7500+USD investment per animal, just a male normal het for lavander albino would set you back $5000. Even on a lesser scale breeding GTP or ETB will still set you back a good chunk of money. After the investment you still have to raise the animals (unless you buy adults at higher prices) and in the end there is no guarantee you'll have any successful breedings. Easier ways to try to make a bit of change. I breed for the fun of it and to play with genetics, if I sell most of my yearly neo's I might make back some feeder money maybe a few bucks for another animal lol.

[ohh_kristina]

Anyone can breed reptiles. Look up a few web sites and you think you know everything there is to know. Well, sorry, but you are very wrong.

In order to make a good profit (or even just ends meet), you have to have hundreds (even thousands!) of animals. I have seen a real reptile farm (Ophiological Services, Inc) and let me tell you!! there are A LOT of animals there. He had about 2,000 feeder rats thawing outside and that alone must cost a pretty penny! And that is only ONE feeding..imagine the YEARS of feeding every week all those animals.. Not to mention all the GTPs and high end morphed BPs he has up there! He also runs another buisness and is thing of starting up ANOTHER buisness. It takes so much time and money to do this.

No offence, but you have only very little experience. a BRB, ball python, and a carpet python? You have no idea what it's like to house and feed all those animals! How long have you had your snakes? Not long, I bet. A year is not a long time, by the way.
I think you should sit back and study genetics and morphs for a few years..save up money to buy a couple of high end morphed ball pythons and then start from there.
Also, it takes a lot of experience to be able to know the tricks of the trade. Do you know how to get neonates to eat? What happens when you have to force feed something mouse tails? Reading a book about that is nothing like really doing it!

It seems like all the younger people here (I am not old, so take no offence to that!) want to breed reptiles for a living.

Again, no offence meant. Just think about it before you spend your life savings or something.

[geko]

ohh_kristina how do i THINK I KNOW EVERYTHING?

My first post on this thread states i know verry little if nothing about this topic... Thats why posted the thread for some articles but so far not 1 article has been posted...

Only thing i know is i have my goals set and no matter what youall say im going to breed them. Money or no money im going to breed them doesnt matter because in the long run i know it will work out.

If its not breeding snakes then there is something eles i can do such as open a pet store or something. Like the old saying says: you can do anything you set your mind to and thats what i plan to do. Im only on this earth for a short time so im going to take chances and make the best of it even if it doesnt work out at least i tryed

[Tim_Cranwill]

Good luck to you Geko. Just be prepared to invest a lot of time, money and effort into this hobby LONG before you see your first red cent of profit and that's if you EVER see a profit. I'm sure you will enjoy it though, profit or no profit because like it's been said before, it's all about the animals and you say you love animals. :)

My advice to you would be to learn as much as you can about all snakes. It takes a lot of reading and learning. You will need to visit all of the top breeder’s sites and read their articles and care sheets, read all of the forums to learn from other people's successes and mistakes, ask a lot of questions and most of all.... be prepared to fail. This isn't math. You can dream up all of the figures you want but these are animals, not numbers. They could die, escape, get sick, not breed, not sell... who knows? You'll need a lot of experience, good contacts and a very good reputation.... not to mention top notch animals. ;)

Anyway, grab yourself an adult pair of Kings or Corns to gain some valuable experience right away. Learn to breed, incubate, feed babies and sell them....

Again, good luck to you. It will be fun even if it's not profitable. Work with animals that you enjoy and you can’t go wrong.... :)

Thanks,
Tim Cranwill
www.cranwill.com
cranwill@mts.net

[elevation24]

I think you are looking at it the wrong way.

It's like you are seeing dollar signs and thinking it of a 'get rich quick' kind of thing, rather than what it really is.

Instead of making a decision like this so abruptly, maybe you should get a mate for one of the snakes you already have, breed them when they are large enough, and see how things go from there. You stated yourself that you don't know anything about it, so why make such a huge decision so suddenly?

Even then, and in the years to come, I doubt you will ever make a living out off of it. As has already been stated before, even some of the top breeders have day jobs despite all of their snakes, and from what I have read, most of them put back the money they make into more snakes.

On top of that, no offense, but you're acting kind of bratty in all of your responses. You came here asking for advice and when people aren't responding the way you WANT them to, you are throwing little hissy fits. You are going to do what you want to do anyway (you've made it clear especially in your last post). Why bother asking for advice when you are going to ignore it anyway?

[snakemann87]

Originally posted by reverendsterlin
you have a rainbow, ball, and jungle. Why not get them paired and see if you can even be successful breeding animals more advanced than corns and kings

Um......thats probalby the worst idea yet. WHy in the world would you suggest cross breeding such species?? I mean come on man....a freaking rainbow boa isnt going to breed with either of those pythons. If it was possible(which its not) why would you want to? I am against any type of crosses...even corn X kings. I think its stupid....

I dont think that breeding should be based on making an income either.......I think you should do it as a side job man. Breeding snakes should be more for the fun of it....and if you do....dont breed any of your current snakes.....breed something like Womas or Black Headed Pythons.......something less common.

[672]

If you want to have a career in reptiles/pets, why not just start up a pet shop, with cats, dogs, and especially reptiles!!! Think of it, you could breed your snakes, and sell them in YOUR pet shop. This would mean you can make a little bit more cash from the pet shop then being a breeder, you could sell cats and what not with the reptiles. You could basically sell all the pets you want in your store. What do you guys think?

[672]

Snakeman, I think he ment getting a pair of the same species, opposite sex to breed to the one he already has, then he could see if he can even breed snakes, and get a chance to see how hard it really is!

[ohh_kristina]

Originally posted by geko
ohh_kristina how do i THINK I KNOW EVERYTHING?

My first post on this thread states i know verry little if nothing about this topic... Thats why posted the thread for some articles but so far not 1 article has been posted...

Only thing i know is i have my goals set and no matter what youall say im going to breed them. Money or no money im going to breed them doesnt matter because in the long run i know it will work out.

If its not breeding snakes then there is something eles i can do such as open a pet store or something. Like the old saying says: you can do anything you set your mind to and thats what i plan to do. Im only on this earth for a short time so im going to take chances and make the best of it even if it doesnt work out at least i tryed

geko, I wasn't saying that YOU think you know everything. I was speaking in general terms. People think that just because they read it somewhere that it's easy to do, that they can do it and make money. That is not the case.
If you want to really learn about this, I suggest you talk to breeders about their business (if they are willing, that is). The only real way to learn this stuff is to research, plan, and then go out and do it. Start slow, though. You make it seem in your posts that you want to do this and do it now. You want to make a living right now and breed snakes. I'm saying that this is not how it works. If you decide to do this, the next 5 years of your life will be raising animals and making a name for yourself in the herp community. Then breed.

[elevation24]

Originally posted by snakemann87
Um......thats probalby the worst idea yet. WHy in the world would you suggest cross breeding such species?? I mean come on man....a freaking rainbow boa isnt going to breed with either of those pythons. If it was possible(which its not) why would you want to? I am against any type of crosses...even corn X kings. I think its stupid....

Yeah, I think they meant to get another snake of the same species but the opposite gender for each one so he can breed them that way, not cross breeding species ;)

[Linds]

I'm not going to go over the points that have already been repeated a zillion times in this thread, so I'll keep it short and sweet.

-Don't get in to breeding reptiles for money, if it happens to work out that way, then great, but if not (and I don't mean to be pessimistic, but it likely won't... you will be hardpressed to find even any of the "big guys" that have been doing it for decades making their living off of breeding reptiles) then don't worry. If you need to set a finance goal with herps, then set it to breaking even ;)-

Originally posted by seann
i am going to go into a trade! some plumbers welders electricians make 100 dollers an hour now thats sweet!

All the trades are doing awesome, except welding. There are unemployed welders all over the place.

[Derrick]

I wish you the best of luck. dont really have any advice accept start small. once you have a few succesfull breedings you really know what your getting into. If you need an incubator make sure you have something that works before you start breeding. Just lookat all the dinking around JD had to do with his http://ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27896

You should maybe register on the board under another name, just a thought, cause I'm sure a lot of people will remember this post. It might affect that whole reputation thing people were talking about, If you plan to sell here later.

I think people are only trying to discourage you because they are concerned for the snakes. Once again I say start small and go for it. You got a long time ahead of you to build that rep wish i was in your shoes.

[munchy]

hey geko,
i feel your pain. i also have made some decisions which may have an adverse effect on my future. im 19 and i dropped out in grade 11. im a smart kid and i know i can accomplish anything i want. people telling me i cant do something only intensifies my ambition. i love it when people tell me im just a drop-out and wont ammount to anything. i just sit back and laugh, knowing the day will come when ill prove all those people wrong. i still dont have my grade 12 and already i make more money than some people who had once tried to bring me down. just keep updating your goals and do whatever you want. id be lying if i said the thought of breeding herps hadnt crossed my mind a few times, but if i ever decide to do so it wont be for a long time. i have too much on my plate right now as it is. if you are serious about considering this as a career choice, i would suggest much reading and learning before you jump into it. keep your head up and gain as much knowlege as possible. consider all variables and keep on keepin on. :)

[rwg]

Hey Geko,

I'm by no means a breeder, so feel free to ignore my opinion if you choose. I did however run some numbers to see what the costs and revenues would be for breeding snakes. I couldn't see any way to make a living selling high-volume snakes without a huge reputation, and a big committment. That's your relatively common corns, kings, ball pythons morphs...snakes that go for $100.

There are higher end snakes that it seems could give you a living. Albino ball pythons (females in particular) sell for thousands. If you had a breeding pair, you would make some money for a while on those. The problem as I see it is that you have to get in early, and you have to spend some money. They wont be rare forever...a couple generations and the high end market is getting saturated.

rg

[geko]

Ok thanks for all the comments.

As i said before it wont be my only job and once again for elevation24 IM NOT TRYING TO GET RICH. You say im being a brat but please read my post before you say something like that. I have said many times i dont plan to get rich and i plan to keep a real job along with breeding...

I am taking in all the adive given and i thank you for it so i will start slow and work my way up and again if i dont make money thats fine im in it for the fun of it. I do however think that if i breed some easy to breed type snakes then sell and save and get a pair of albino balls i could make money. If i sell high end snakes i can make money because i wont have to feed 1000 snakes. Lets say a breeding pair of albino balls for $5,000
and i sell the babies for $2,500 a piece. Thats obviously making money but ill need to breed some common snakes to raise up enough money to buy the mating pair of AB.

To get back on track could anyone recomend some good articles on breeding rainbows, balls, and carpets? I know many will say i shouldnt start out on these snakes but i already have one of each so it will be cheaper and all but my bp are nice with screming BRB's and high yellow carpets.

Also some basic info on breeding in general would be great!

Thanks for the comments an keep em comming :)

[elevation24]

I did read your posts. Hence how I formed my opinion.

And yes, it's quite obvious that you think you will be getting rich:

My parents always said i would be working at a cardboard box factory making $4 a hour and my dad still does to this day. I dont plan to go to college since obviously school isnt my thing so i feel breeding snakes would be a nice occupation for me.

You're basically sayng, "My parents think I will never amount to anything so I will be breeding snakes and make a hefty profit to prove them wrong."

That's how I see it, anyway. Maybe you have changed your opinion slightly since starting this thread and receiving this kind of feedback, but from your very first post alone this is what I, and probably most everyone else, gather from it.

Good luck to you either way :)

[elevation24]

Oh -- as far as breeding articles go, I think you first need to get yourself a partner for each of the 3 that you already have ;) Then go from there. The Breeding/Incubation forum has a lot of rich advice.

[geko]

Originally posted by elevation24
I did read your posts. Hence how I formed my opinion.

And yes, it's quite obvious that you think you will be getting rich:



You're basically sayng, "My parents think I will never amount to anything so I will be breeding snakes and make a hefty profit to prove them wrong."

That's how I see it, anyway. Maybe you have changed your opinion slightly since starting this thread and receiving this kind of feedback, but from your very first post alone this is what I, and probably most everyone else, gather from it.

Good luck to you either way :)

Yes and if you would have read all my post you would clearly see that i had changed my mind about a few things so dont just look at the first post of a 4 page thread and assume nothing was changed.

[elevation24]

Believe me; I have read all of your posts.

[Cas]

Another comment about dog breeding...... there's also either a huge initial investment to get champion or grand champion parents, or the time investment for training and showing in order to win titles so the puppies are actually worth something. And then, what do you do if you have a dog with exceptional breeding and a great future as a stud or bitch, who gets accidentially spooked or injured by a judge and then is too scared to ever show again? Or a dog that is stubborn and just never learns to heel in the correct position, or stand in the correct position?

And then there's also having to deal with unneutered male dogs, and female dogs in heat.....


Originally posted by geko
I dont want to stand for working a job my whole life that i dont like. Working at a pet store and breeding snakes would be a dream for me even if it doesnt bring in the $$ i will still be happy working with something i love and know about.


Sorry, but *lol*..... Ever worked in a pet store? Try it before you say that it would be 'wonderful'...... http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=28800


Dawn

[chas*e]

Get an EDUCATION then get a JOB and then worry about making money at a Hobby......you need money to start any business, reptiles included, and you have to work at it...so work at school first and the rest will fall into place...believe me

[Corey Woods]

Geko,

The one thing of advise that I can give you is to start small and think big! You can make money breeding herps.....you can actually do quiet well at it too....but, it takes time, money and lots of patience and dissappointment to get their. Start off small and work with animals that you enjoy working with. Most times buying an animal you don't really like but think you can make tons of money breeding it doesn't really work out in the long run. You'll get bored of the animal or dread working with them and lose interested. Buy into animals that you are excited to work with AND have a good retail value and demand. Breeding leopard geckos is a rewarding experience but if you produce hundreds of them be prepared to give them away just to get rid of them (no offence to Leopard Gecko breeders out their!). If you want to get into high end morphs of balls or boas my advice to that is go big! Heterozygous and Homozygous animals sell extremely well, but, producing them reliably requires a lot of start up cash.

As you grow and people start buying from you you will grow a reputation. If you are honest and have good animals you will get a good reputation. If you aren't then you will still get a reputation but one that you wouldn't want to brag about.

Basically, you can make money breeding any herps out their. Some herps make more money than others. Don't let it bother you when people say you are just in it for the money. Even if you are who cares? If money is what motivates you and as long as you keep your animals healthy and they breed for you then who cares what your motives are. The end result was healthy animals that thrive. Whether people want to admit it or not money is what makes the world go round. You can only lose money for so long doing something before you go broke.

If you want to try and do this full time it'll take about 6-10 years to get to that point if you are good at breeding the reptiles of your choice. You will need high end herps and you will need lots of them. You will also have to be able to reliabily produce them year after year. Most of the profit for the first years will have to be reinvested in more reptiles to allow you to grow and not fall behind. On animal that is hot one year may not be the next so it helps to deversify a little bit to offest your losses in one end (good advise for those of you thinking of investing in the stock market as well.......).

For those of you who are interested (since my name has been mentioned a couple times in this post) I currently have a collection of about 300 animals (mainly ball pythons but I also have the odd blood and GTP kicking around too for shits and giggles). I could probably make it on my own just breeding reptiles.......but I still have a full time job working 8am-4pm mon-fri (yeah....so I'm money hungry......oh well!.....it pays my feeding bill..lol!).

Corey

[elevation24]

Originally posted by Corey Woods

Basically, you can make money breeding any herps out their. Some herps make more money than others. Don't let it bother you when people say you are just in it for the money. Even if you are who cares? If money is what motivates you and as long as you keep your animals healthy and they breed for you then who cares what your motives are. The end result was healthy animals that thrive. Whether people want to admit it or not money is what makes the world go round. You can only lose money for so long doing something before you go broke.

Just for the record: This is not what I meant at all. I said 'get rich <b>quick</b>'.

I don't think anyone gets into any business without wanting to make money, or without it being within the top 3 priorities. But having the dream that you can breed a couple of snakes in a short period of time and have lots and lots of money to survive is simply unrealistic, in my opinion.

This is what I was gathering from the original posts.

[Jeff_Favelle]

ball pythons morphs...snakes that go for $100.

What Ball morphs go for $100? I call those normals, not morphs.

[morph]

Favelle ive been reading all this crap just waiting for something too come off those fingers of you'res and thats all you give me.

SH*T

[geko]

Originally posted by Cas
Another comment about dog breeding...... there's also either a huge initial investment to get champion or grand champion parents, or the time investment for training and showing in order to win titles so the puppies are actually worth something. And then, what do you do if you have a dog with exceptional breeding and a great future as a stud or bitch, who gets accidentially spooked or injured by a judge and then is too scared to ever show again? Or a dog that is stubborn and just never learns to heel in the correct position, or stand in the correct position?

And then there's also having to deal with unneutered male dogs, and female dogs in heat.....





Sorry, but *lol*..... Ever worked in a pet store? Try it before you say that it would be 'wonderful'...... http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=28800


Dawn

Again if you would have read my post you would know i currently do work at a pet store... god u people dont read very good... Ye i may be sounding mean but comming at me with questions that i have answered 30 times in this thread is getting annoying.

[vanderkm]

geko,

Corey has given you priceless advice if you are serious about getting into reptiles as a business or into any business - they bear repeating - start small and think big, work with animals you enjoy working with and be prepared to invest - time, money and energy. In my opinion, these are the key things that have brought the most successful people in this field (or any other) their positive reptuations. They strive for excellence and people who appreciate that know where to find it. Corey has made these points in forum conversations before, and I think they are the most important things I have learned in the reptile community - especially the point about working with animals that you like to work with -

mary v.

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL Scott! I was waiting for EVERYONE to tell this guy NOT to try and breed snakes for a living, and then I was going to tell him the opposite!! Ha ha. But Corey already did that! :cool:

I think he should just go for it. I mean, why on Earth do you think these morphs (Ball, Boa, Retic, etc) sell for $10,000 +?? Because people want a pet? No, because they are investing in them to breed and resell to other investors. Why would I tell geko that he shouldn't buy snakes to breed and make money, and then turn around and advertise Ball morphs for thousands of dollars in the classifieds. Who is going to buy a $2,000 snake from me WITHOUT the intentions of making money? Nobody, that's who.

Of course you can make money breeding snakes. Of course its not easy. If it was, everyone would do it. Doctors make money as well. So do CEO's. But that's hard. But do you hear people telling other people to NOT be a doctor? I've never told anyone such a thing.

Bottom line is, ANYONE can breed snakes and make money. And the people that try it and fail, or try it and don't like it, well they find something else to do. No big deal. As long as the animals are well-kept and treated nice, I see no problems in starting from scratch and trying to build a business. Its quite commendable actually. But, as Corey said, expect it to take about 4-6 years to start seeing any kind of significant returns, as you'll need to breed something FIRST, then trade babies for other stuff, then raise that and breed it, and then use the money to buy a higher-end snake, then raise females from that, etc etc etc. And trust me when I say that your outlook on life and the world will change DRASTICALLY in 6 years. Heck, even 2 years. Especially at your age.

[maiden_canada]

that would be so damn sweet if it was easy to breed snakes and be rich. hey favelle, how much do you think you make a year just from breeding your reptiles? (the only ''morphs'' you sell are pastel balls right? and maybe some milksnakes?

[kid]

Hey,
Im 14 and Ive been in and out of juvenile hall but I have a strong will to make money. I probably will end up breeding snakes as a hobby and making some extra money. But still even being a kid and having food clothes and a house for free breeding does not make alot of money. Be a web designer or something. Ball pythons are pretty much considered a beginner snake so I would start with those.

Make sure you get a captive born ball python if you decide to get into this wild caught animals will be less money but can carry parasites, have respitory infections or a number of other things.

Make a good reputation for yourself im currently looking to buy a bci or bcc in the next couple months. I have been to numerous web sites but refuse to buy from anybody i have not heard alot of good things about.

Go to big apple herp and look at how much some of that stuff is. Your step dad may be able to build a good heat system but still you will need numerous reostats. And other supplies.

Be careful about buying adult breeder pairs alot of people wouldnt want to sell a good breeding pair if there wasnt something wrong with them.

Read all the care sheets. Think if you can supply all those needs to the snake. No cutting corners.

Go to www.redtailboa.net , www.redtailboas.com and here read all the forums about what you need to get. So now you cant say nobody gave you some places to find good information.

Find a good vet. Vet prices can also be very expensive.

Once you get all these things down go to specific forums and post specific questions and you should find good answers. or you can e-mail me at gaston@worldtouch.net

good luck but dont get ahead of yourself

[geko]

Jeff_Favelle, you gave the best advise yet and i thank you for that. Seems like everyone eles is telling me not to breed for whatever reason i dont know but its not going to change my outlook on breeding.

I know i need time, money, education, and most of all pasion. All for of those i have and i will accomplish this project eventualy.

Who knows, maby 5 years down the road youall will be buying some nice reps from me :)

[Tim_Cranwill]

I didn't tell you not to. :) Cory, Jeff and Kid all gave you some good advice. Post some more specific questions in the forums and you might get some better answers....

Which snakes do you think you'd like to work with?

[avelli2000]

Keep your day job. Get your GED. Live with the parents. Give it your best shot with the breeding. Learn everything you can before you get started. Last year out of the blue I said I'm going to start a part-time landscaping business. I was a person who knew nothing about landscaping at the time, I mean nothing. Everybody laughed at me and told me I was nuts. I now bring in roughly $3k a month clear working one day a week. I'm reinvesting all the profits for more equipment and next year it will be $6K. I had a dream, turned it into a plan through a lot of research, now I have a growing business apart from my day-job. Even if it doesn't workout for you, the experience will be invaluable. I don't even own a snake, been lurking on various forums learning all I can before I make a purchase (corn or peruv. can't decide), it has already crossed my mind to breed for profit in the future. Having never owned a snake it is not a real thought, but it is a thought. Go for it! Give it everything you've got. A friend of mine said to me once, "you'll never get rich working for someone else" five years later he is a millionaire from a roofing company. Start your own business and learn. Your 18 years old and have the world by the *&%#!. If you make a mistake now, it is not a big loss and no harm is done. Learn from the experience and move on. If you are going to do it, do it. No half measures.

[geko]

Originally posted by cranwill
I didn't tell you not to. :) Cory, Jeff and Kid all gave you some good advice. Post some more specific questions in the forums and you might get some better answers....

Which snakes do you think you'd like to work with?

Yay now were getting somewhere :)

I like the snakes i have. The only snakes i dont have that i like are cali kings and tangerine honduran milks

I love blood pythons but they seem a little out of my range as of experience for right now. So breeding kings, milks, BPs, JCP, and BRB's would be fun but of cource i know some snakes might be harder but those are what im interested in for keeping as pets and breeding. After all i have to like the snake im trying to breed dont i? :D

Unless it was a 50,000 snake that no one had lol even if it was ugly and mean i would breed it :p

[Phox]

And trust me when I say that your outlook on life and the world will change DRASTICALLY in 6 years. Heck, even 2 years. Especially at your age.

Good point. I know when I was 18 I had absolutely no desire to do much of anything other than hold a part time job, just so i could afford stero equipment for my car :). Now I look at life ALOT diffrently. So it just goes to show how confindent he(geko) is in what he wants, and I think its great he has the ambition. So personally, I say go for it! Sure you'll probably have to start at the bottom, ya gotta start somewhere. If your already at the bottom it can only get better. And if its something you enjoy doing, thats even better.

[mykee]

Geko, this is the reason why you will never make money at breeding and selling snakes:"...and i know everything i need to know about the snakes i own."
With that attitude, assuming you already know everything, you're done for. I learn something new about my snakes every single day.

[morph]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Thanks Jeff

[NewLineReptile]

Originally posted by morph
Favelle ive been reading all this crap just waiting for something too come off those fingers of you'res and thats all you give me.

SH*T

That is what i was waiting for to....lol

Brandon

[Linds]

Originally posted by geko
Seems like everyone eles is telling me not to breed for whatever reason i dont know but its not going to change my outlook on breeding.

I know i need time, money, education, and most of all pasion. All for of those i have and i will accomplish this project eventualy.


I don't think anyone is saying don't bother at all. Unless your friends are willing to lend you out hundreds of thousands, then you will need to do something else to help fund this. Just don't limit yourself to just that. Back up is very important because it can be very hard to make a living breeding reptiles. You will need to do something else until you can get your business established enough, which as stated, can take years and years. Hehehe... my dream is to break even...lol :p

[rwg]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
What Ball morphs go for $100? I call those normals, not morphs.

You clipped my quote a little too tight Jeff...that was "relatively common corns, kings and ball python morphs". By this I mean most corns, some kings, and you're right...pretty much just normal ball pythons. Badly written on my part. :)

rg

[BWSmith]

I would just like to point out a couple things real quick.

I have been doing this for years. And am still nowhere near self sufficient. I diversified to include education and jobbing snakes as well as some breeding. I am finally to the point where the animals support themselves, just not me. And that is using 3 different avenues. And getting amazing deals! I have well over 60 snakes (including large boids and pitvipers) and my feeding bill is down to about $100 every 3 months. I had to give away 400 mice and about 50 rats just to make room in the freezer for the next batch. But having a hookup like that is unlikely. But it is one of the main reasons that I break even. Most money from education goes into new housing, light bulbs, timers, etc. That pretty much eats up that money and the remainder goes into aquiring new stock. It aint easy. And I also have a full time job.

Someone mentioned opening a pet store. Talk about a TIGHT profit margin. I have seen enough come and go to know better than even considering opening a shop.

You also mentioned having a partner. Tricky business. You have two options. You split the rent and that is it (in which case it is a roomate, not a partner), or you build it like a business. All the money goes in the same pot, mix well, add expenses, bake at 350 and Voila, you could have disaster and lose a friend. Again, seen it happen. In my opinion, this industry is best kept with one owner. No fighting over finances, no getting permission to act on a good deal, noone else to blame.

Everyone suggests morphs. I would rather breed beautiful Guyanas and Eastern Diamondbacks and never make a living off snakes, than deal with morphs. But I guess that is just me. I prefer to build a reputation on quality, clean bloodlines than being the one with the latest freaky mutation. Choice I have made, others obviously choose different.

Another point is where you live. Canada has a population of less than 32 million. The U.S. has a population of about 300 million. About 10 times the population and most breeders here have full time jobs too. This is with a much larger customer base, more shows all over the country, and many more sites for advertising. Just something else to think about.

Just take it slow and easy. Never get the mentallity that you know everything you need to know about your animals. Start just pairing up what you have and try consistantly getting offspring for a couple years. Remeber that when you sell a baby for $100, that is not your profit. To figure out your profit, keep track of your expenses.

Cage Cost + Cost of parants + Cost of feeding Parents for a year (figure rodent costs first ;) ) + substrate used that year for both parants + Timers + Lights + Water Dishes + Cost for Floor Space of cages (Rent Divided by Total SF of dwelling times SF of cage surface area) + Cost of feeding offspring + Caging Offspring and all the other expenses I mentioned. Divide that number by the total sellable offspring and that is your cost per baby. Subtract that from your selling price and the final number is your profit (it will prolly have a " - " in front :D)

Of course next year you breed the same snakes, you can deduct reusable items from that equation such as reused cages, etc. and remove the cost of the parents as you have already accounted for it the previous year.

That is how you know if you are at least breaking even. Don't rush it. IF you can pull it off, more power to you. But don't be discouraged if it doesn't work out as well as you plan. After all, any time you deal with livestock, you could lose everything in a day. Uncertainty is our only certainty.

[RepTylE]

Hate to be a wet blanket but yeah, I think that you should get your education and do the breeding thing as a sideline. If you are able to make enough money in time then that's great but if not you will have something to fall back on. Either way I'm afraid that you have to learn, learn, learn.
If there was an easy way to make money, odds are I would have found it by now.

[killer Cichlidz]

Geko, this topic is pretty damn good I tell you that, and now that everyone has joined in in an effort to help you out and give their opinions its pretty cool that people actually care and do reply.

Here is my .02 >>>>> Breeding snakes is fun, really fun and the most a breeder will get out of it is the pure enjoyment of doing something they love..........NOT THE MONEY.........Big breeders who actually do, do this for a living don't have just snakes...........they have shops maybe in one or more locations in the world and they really only specialize in a few breeds of snakes.

The rest like supplies, feed, other animals come from wholesalers that the owners purchase from. If a breeder only has snakes ( a few species) then they are really having to work a 9 to 5 job.

My point is, a pet shop is probably the easiest way to go if you are planning to go big with reps. and even then you need to have other critters. Although MONEY is involved in this also you have to work your way up.......little by little (just like Pop always says).

This way by having a petshop, you can supply everyone (public and internet) with much more than just snakes and a variety of things to choose from, especially other herps and mammals.

If you decide to take this road, you may be working at your petshop with a 16 or 17 year old kid who loves animals too "I wanna open a petshop one day", and by the time you know it you'll be at home getting calls for orders, not even worring about your shop. But is takes time and money and 100% detemination to get to these points.

After you business is steady you would already be breeding your snakes and making money on them......The truth behing less money is more in Bulk.........and thats what petshop owners do.

I honestly see to it that the only way you could make a living off snakes..............well and many other things.........is to open a really nice shop........or become a herpatologist <<<<I am going for>>>> or secret venom from the worlds deadliest in a lab.

:)

Hope this helps a little,

Lu

[BoidKeeper]

I'd like to add my two cents too. Canada only has 31 million people, 5 of which live in TO alone. Canada has all the breeders it can handle as it is. Just ask the "big" guys how they did at this years shows. Plus think about this, all the big guys with the exception of maybe two that I know of hold down real jobs on top of their herps. Even Jeff Rohan has a real job. Also the guys that are trying to do this full time aren't working with corns and balls. They are working with stuff that no one else in the country has. Of which most of the offspring they produce is shipped over seas. This mean they have to be registered and legal and pay taxes and all that good stuff so that they can get the export permits they need. Have you thought about that part of it? If you are going to do this full time then you'll need to set up your buisness with a tax number so that you can claim your income and pay your taxes.
If you want to try it I say go for it but make sure you do your homework because in the end if you don't do things right the animals will suffer and we can't have that. We're not talking about trying to grow potatos, we're talking about living things who's welfare must be put first above all other things, including profit. Know what you're getting into because in the end if you shut things down you will need to know well in advance what you are going to do with the animals in your care.
Finally breeding animals is one thing selling them is another. Like others have mentioned you need to have a reputation to sell anything. For most of us it's not just about having animals, it's about having the best animals. I can get ball python hets all over the place but I chose to get them from Don P. I can get Kenyan sand boas all over the place for as low as $60 but I chose to pay Roy S. $125. I could get Jungles or Brazilians from a pet store but I would rather pay double after shipping to get them from Jeff F. There is a very short list of reasons why I buy from these people, they are the best at what they do in my opinion.
Think about those guys and what they work with before you jump into the ring. If you try to sell what they are selling you will have a hard go at it. You may what to try and bring something new to the table.
I hope this was not too negative, that was not my intention. I just wanted to try and offer another perspective on things. Making money at this can be done but like it has been said start small, think big and never ever forget about the animals!
Cheers,
Trevor

[Classic]

Well Said Trev.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Trevor, did you write that BEFORE work? Damn, I'm still wiping the sleep from my eyes and you're writing novels???? LOL! :D


Well said.

[Linds]

Originally posted by BWSmith
Everyone suggests morphs. I would rather breed beautiful Guyanas and Eastern Diamondbacks and never make a living off snakes, than deal with morphs. But I guess that is just me. I prefer to build a reputation on quality, clean bloodlines than being the one with the latest freaky mutation.

Couldn't agree more!

[BoidKeeper]

Thanks guys. Jeff....I wrote it at work, you know the "real" job. Don't tell my principal. hee hee.
Trevor

[Grant vg]

A lot of ppl (many that i dont even know) have contacted me regarding why i have suddenly decided to sell off ALL of my blood pythons.
And since my name was mentioned, i guess this is as good of thread as any to let ppl know whats up.

I few years ago, i found a species of snake that i liked very much so i decided to work exclusively with them. i worked hard at acquiring only the best of specimens and found myself with a fairly nice collection.
I did the website thing, built the rep, pondered on the idea of making a living off of it but thought realistically and decided to just have it as an intense hobby with hopes of eventually acquiring some albinos and hopefully breeding them, and continuing to work with this awesome species as well as provide others with my offspring.

I hope i showed over the past couple of years that this was never just for the money (cause money was never made), and i think my work on my website and the knowledge i gave on the forums proved that. Believe me, when i say i really loved the animals.

I sacrificed alot of time and money just to acquire and keep healthy animals in proper caging and with proper husbandry.

All the initiative, smarts , and passion was there, HOWEVER, i was lacking time, space and money to fully satisfy myself.

i got to a point where i had close to 25 snakes in a small apartment that no longer held any individual value other then there worth.

They were being fed to reach a breeding size, rather then being fed to just watch them grow.

They were being checked on, to see if they were breeding or ovulating, not to take out and handle just for the fact of handling your pet.

There temps were being cooled, not because they needed it, but because it was neccessary if they were going to breed and produce babies.

They were being kept in rubbermaids, not because they liked living in little plastic boxes, but because it was more space efficient and meant MORE SNAKES!

Basically, what im trying to get at (incase you havn't already figured out) if you decide to go "big time", there will come a point when you are no longer really interested in each snake and like them for what they really are when you have 100's of snakes, bills to pay and you are RELYING on these animals to produce babies to cover those expenses.

I felt like I got a ton of bricks dropped on my head when it finally hit me , and it was upsetting to say the least. I for one didn't get into this hobby to make it rich. i got into this hobby because i liked the prehistoric look of those rescued iguanas, i liked how those boas were so damn clingy and never wanted to get back in there cage. i liked how that little poison dart frog could be so small yet have such awesome colours.

So my advice to you is, if you love reptiles, is let the other ppl breed and make money off herps (if they make any at all).
Enjoy your animals and finish school and think about getting into a different line of work.
Because when you come home from a hard day from where ever...you'll enjoy feeding your snakes.
But when you stay home day after day, cleaning up *****, changing substrate, buying and selling animals, and spending 1/2 your day with rodents, you wont appreciate those little things anymore.

and for me, that is why i keep these reptiles.
I am now very content with the 3 snakes i am keeping now. i gave em big vision cages, heat panels , plastic plants, and even flourescent lighting!!!! (if you can believe it..LOL)


And for the record, there are rumours spreading as to why i am selling my snakes (dont ask me why?) and i hope the above has clarified that for anyone wondering...
So please let me sell my snakes AND keep my dignity at the same time.

thanks,

gvg

[maiden_canada]

grant, even though thats a great story, and i think geko should really consider things, i doubt he will since others like corey woods and jeff favelle have told him to go for it.

[sSNAKESs.com]

Great post Grant... I only had 15 snakes maximum at one time and for the same reasons you just listed, I have only 3 snakes remaining aswell... The 3 that i kept were the 3 that I have always wanted / favorite on the bunch!! I couldnt be more happy with them and I have alot more fun with the 3 then I ever did with the 15....

Jeff.

Originally posted by Grant vg
A lot of ppl (many that i dont even know) have contacted me regarding why i have suddenly decided to sell off ALL of my blood pythons.
And since my name was mentioned, i guess this is as good of thread as any to let ppl know whats up.

I few years ago, i found a species of snake that i liked very much so i decided to work exclusively with them. i worked hard at acquiring only the best of specimens and found myself with a fairly nice collection.
I did the website thing, built the rep, pondered on the idea of making a living off of it but thought realistically and decided to just have it as an intense hobby with hopes of eventually acquiring some albinos and hopefully breeding them, and continuing to work with this awesome species as well as provide others with my offspring.

I hope i showed over the past couple of years that this was never just for the money (cause money was never made), and i think my work on my website and the knowledge i gave on the forums proved that. Believe me, when i say i really loved the animals.

I sacrificed alot of time and money just to acquire and keep healthy animals in proper caging and with proper husbandry.

All the initiative, smarts , and passion was there, HOWEVER, i was lacking time, space and money to fully satisfy myself.

i got to a point where i had close to 25 snakes in a small apartment that no longer held any individual value other then there worth.

They were being fed to reach a breeding size, rather then being fed to just watch them grow.

They were being checked on, to see if they were breeding or ovulating, not to take out and handle just for the fact of handling your pet.

There temps were being cooled, not because they needed it, but because it was neccessary if they were going to breed and produce babies.

They were being kept in rubbermaids, not because they liked living in little plastic boxes, but because it was more space efficient and meant MORE SNAKES!

Basically, what im trying to get at (incase you havn't already figured out) if you decide to go "big time", there will come a point when you are no longer really interested in each snake and like them for what they really are when you have 100's of snakes, bills to pay and you are RELYING on these animals to produce babies to cover those expenses.

I felt like I got a ton of bricks dropped on my head when it finally hit me , and it was upsetting to say the least. I for one didn't get into this hobby to make it rich. i got into this hobby because i liked the prehistoric look of those rescued iguanas, i liked how those boas were so damn clingy and never wanted to get back in there cage. i liked how that little poison dart frog could be so small yet have such awesome colours.

So my advice to you is, if you love reptiles, is let the other ppl breed and make money off herps (if they make any at all).
Enjoy your animals and finish school and think about getting into a different line of work.
Because when you come home from a hard day from where ever...you'll enjoy feeding your snakes.
But when you stay home day after day, cleaning up *****, changing substrate, buying and selling animals, and spending 1/2 your day with rodents, you wont appreciate those little things anymore.

and for me, that is why i keep these reptiles.
I am now very content with the 3 snakes i am keeping now. i gave em big vision cages, heat panels , plastic plants, and even flourescent lighting!!!! (if you can believe it..LOL)


And for the record, there are rumours spreading as to why i am selling my snakes (dont ask me why?) and i hope the above has clarified that for anyone wondering...
So please let me sell my snakes AND keep my dignity at the same time.

thanks,

gvg

[Grant vg]

ITs geko's life and his choices.
Regardless of my stories, corey's stories, jeffs stories, or whoever else's stories, he'll eventually end up with his own story...lol


I never said that it cannot be done, and done properly. but only very few who set out to do something of this sort, truly succeed.
and by success, i mean keep and breed these animals for a living and still truly love the animals for what they are.

If there were no commercial breeders, this hobby wouldn't be close to where it is now. Infact i think we need many more breeders here in canada, my point was more along the lines that not everyone is made for commercial breeding.

And chances are, if you go full steam, that apreciation for each animal will be somewhat lost...a new realization i have just come across...

it was just something for him or whomever to think about...

gvg

[maiden_canada]

yeah grant i get it! what would be the best i think is breed an expensive snake such as albino balls or womas or diamond pythons or something, get a pair breed them, keep 2 of the clutch and then you produce a good amount of them to sell and make good money, ontop of another job of course

[Grant vg]

I think your on to something Clarke....lol

[maiden_canada]

haha grant that made me seem more excited then i really am, its just an idea that obviously other people have had. the problem is getting 10,000 for a pair of albinos :) or getting hets and praying for some

[Linds]

Awesome post, Grant! :thumbsup:

[ohh_kristina]

Great post, Grant. Your story is the exact reason why I have steered clear of breeding. I would love to do it. I'm sure we all would. But, losing the passion that drives me today is not worth it to me. I enjoy them too much to have it taken away that easily.

[sapphire_moon]

Thank you for that story Grant. I to wanted to breed...but I don't want to look at a snake and try and figure out how much it's worth. I think I'll stick to keeping them as pets and maybe rescue....you really shed new light on "breeding"........

[Jeff_Favelle]

I agree, Grant's post was very good, but let's not be mistaken people. He said that for HIM, breeding would entail losing interest in the animal specifically. This doesn't necessarily apply to everybody!! LOL!! 4 people have now said that they won't breed because they don't want to lose interest in animals??!! LOL! Excuse me, but I just find that altogether tooooo funny. You lose interest in animals because you lose interest. Maybe its because you acquire too many to enjoy or maybe its because your outlook and interests change. But owning 100 breeding snakes does NOT make you lose interest in them by default. Ha ha!!

Grant had a GREAT anecdote/story. It was personal and provided great insight. But it won't necessarily be EVERYONE'S story. Not by a longshot.

LOL!

[RepTylE]

This has been a really hot topic.
I don't think that we will reach a consensus. Different people have/will have different stories to tell. You can advise someone all you want but ultimately they will make their own decisions. My point was that getting your education and having something to fall back on is the best course.

[Jeff_Favelle]

My point was that getting your education and having something to fall back on is the best course.

That is SOUND advice for ANYONE in any walk of life, not just breeding reptiles. For sure.

:D

[David Kwok]

Yes, getting a formal education first is the way to go. Not only b/c it is becoming a social norm, but also for self development and growth. There are a lot of thought processes and decision making criteria that you learn from a formal education that is transferable to all walks of life. Nevermind the simple things like knowing when to you use you "2s". If you do not know weather two use your tos from your toos from your twos, it speaks lots about you.

;)

Dave

[Linds]

Originally posted by David Kwok
If you do not know weather two use your tos from your toos from your twos, it speaks lots about you.

;)


LOL and the right "whether"s ;)

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ha ha, "THEIR" you go again. LOL!

[BoidKeeper]

Uh, Jeff dont you meen "there" you go? Yeah that's right, or is it ya that's right.
Trevor

[sapphire_moon]

I think that if you know yourself well enough then you know when your getting ahead of yourself.
I know that when I have more than 5 of one animal I lose interest. I also know that if I had to clean out a cage on a daily basis, I would not want to have that animal.
I am not going to put the health of my animals at risk because I lose interest, have to many animals, and start looking at them as a pain in the but instead of a joy to keep.

[mykee]

You see, I have to disagree. I have 20+ BP's and EVERY single one of them is my favorite. I enjoy each and every one of them for their quirks, their finicky feeding schedules, and their individual characteristics. If I only had one or two, I would not know a tenth of what my snakes have taught me. Having many snakes, in my experience, has not only given me a greater appreciation for them, but pushes me to continue learning.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Yeah Trev, that's write.


LOL!

[Tim_Cranwill]

Now guys, bare in mind that sum people have other things on they're minds when there typing so don't be two hard on(s) them. :D

Hmmm, was that to sarcasmic?


I guess this thread has gotten a bit off topic.... oh well.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I can't believe you wrote "hard on" and "sarcasmic" in the same sentence.

[snakemann87]

How about this.........how about we all stop posting and become adults?. THis is simply ridiculous.......100+ posts.......

[Jeff_Favelle]

How about this.........how about we all stop posting and become adults?. THis is simply ridiculous.......100+ posts.......

Need a tissue cranky pants. If I can't talk amongst my friends with you getting in a huff, then what's the point? Lay off.

[ohh_kristina]

Originally posted by snakemann87
How about this.........how about we all stop posting and become adults?. THis is simply ridiculous.......100+ posts.......

Who says you have to read it? I think this was an informative thread and if everyone wants to have a laugh, more power to them. What's the problem?

[snakemann87]

Shutup Kristina.....i dont think rippin on this kid and puttin him down is a good way of laughing.........i could name some good ones though.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I think you should either learn English or read the posts again. The people who "ripped" geko were gone a LONG time ago. I told him to go for it. No one was ripping him or making fun of him. You my man, have to learn context. And when you do, read all the posts (in order) again, and it will all click.

Until then, bugger off and don't tell other members to shut up. That is just rude and inconsiderate. How can you chastize people for writing posts about bad English back and forth, yet tell another member to shut up? That's hypocritical, and not needed here.

Or is that "hear"?

[snakemann87]

Im not ging to fight....please show me were I mis-spelled some stuff?

[ohh_kristina]

Originally posted by snakemann87
Shutup Kristina.....i dont think rippin on this kid and puttin him down is a good way of laughing.........i could name some good ones though.


you are rude and obnoxious. Perhaps you should think before you "speak".

[Jeff_Favelle]

Im not ging to fight....please show me were I mis-spelled some stuff?

I never said you misspelled anything? Why would you assume that? I suggested that you learn CONTEXT. Because with learning context, your arguement about us ripping geko is non-existent. 3 of us were talking amongst ourselves at the end of a good post that a LOT of people participated in, and then you came in and mouthed off about something that never even happened! Does that not seem ludicrous and stupid to you?

Does to me.

Buh-bye.

[Ron]

going not ging:D

[maiden_canada]

owned.

[hello]

heh start out on corns and sand boas because they are easy to breed!

[BoidKeeper]

Buh-bye.
LMAO! What, you're a sturd now?
Trevor

[Dozer]

I feel some bans comin' up, I would suggest for everyone fightin' to shut the hell up and quit fightin' like lil' kids. You just look bad :)

Mike

[BoidKeeper]

Uh, no one here is "fightin" like "lil" anything....so YOU shut up! lol
Trevor

[JonD]

My cats breath smells like cat food!!

[Jeff_Favelle]

I feel some bans comin' up, I would suggest for everyone fightin' to shut the hell up and quit fightin' like lil' kids. You just look bad

LOL! This post was like a MONTH ago dude. If anyone was gonna get banned, it would have happened by now. LOL!

[BoidKeeper]

My cats breath smells like cat food!!
Ms. Howver I don't have a red crayon. Why not Ralph? I ate it.

[Dark_Angel_25]

And on that note! Well I read each and every post in this thread. (yes believe it) and well, Geko, I think that if you believe you can do it, and have the drive and determination to try, then more power to you. I also think that seeing as you were only asking for web sites to get some facts and do research... well, you started a pretty interesting conversation between probably every online member on the site! if nothing else,
Congrats on that alone!
:D

[daver676]

"It tastes like burning!!"

Let's hear more of Ralph!!