Ideal night temperatures

[MouseKilla]

Just wondering if anyone knows the ideal range for BCIs night temperatures. I heat the enclosure with a regular light bulb that gives off enough heat through the day. It is on for about 12 hours a day, 9am - 9pm. It eventually cools to room temperature at night then gradually heats up through the day. I've heard that the temp drop at night is beneficial so I'm more or less wondering if room temperature might be too low.

[JaredAren]

I don't do night time drops. I would trade your bulb in for a ceramic heat emitter or a bulb specifically for reptiles that you can run 24/7. Some breeders do drop night temps to as low as 68-70 during cycling. I personally don't want mine to get below 78 ever.

[MouseKilla]

He's eating really well and looks great so it doesn't seem to be doing any harm... any possible side-effects from the low night temps? The idea of 24 hr heat doesn't seem right to me, it may not be harmful but it just seems unnatural.

[BoidKeeper]

It eventually cools to room temperature at night then gradually heats up through the day
Here's the problem though, what every room you're in it's always room temperature. lol But seriousely you didn't give any numbers? You're letting her go down to room temp at night which is different then it is during the day because it gets colder at night. But how cold? I picked up a boa recently that was in a cage where the cold side was room temperature. That would have been fine if the room temperature was not 60! I would not want to know what it goes down to at night!
Long story short I can tell you that Jeff Rohan keeps his boas at constant room temp of 82 365 days a year. I personally would not let my snakes ambiant get cooler then 75 in the winter. So that would mean 75 at night on the cool side and still have access to at least a hot spot of at least 85. During the day I am for about 88/80 for my BCIs.
Hope this helps,
Trevor

[MouseKilla]

This particular room goes down to about 72-74 at it's coolest. Any disadvantage to that much of a drop? As I said there doesn't seem to be any problem, all but 2 of my snakes are in this room and they're all looking and eating well. Is it good for them to be in constant heat? I know a lot of people do it that way I just always assumed it was better to have the more natural drop. My concern was that maybe 72-74 was maybe too cool...

[Jeff_Favelle]

Is it good for them to be in constant heat?


CHOICE. Give YOUR animals the choice, and see what THEY do. Who gives a crap about anyone else's collection? Not me. Read what your snakes do and act accordingly. Bad husbandry cannot be cured by copying other's bad husbandry.

[MouseKilla]

I hear ya on that one. I don't take all advice, just the stuff that sounds reasonable. Maybe there needs to be an "ask the expert" forum...? I've noticed my BCI is often active at night when the temps go down, I don't know what that means but I've heard that when snakes get too cold they go dormant and don't move about...

[ohh_kristina]

Personally, the snakes that have UTHs have heat on 24/7, and those that have heat lamps get the lamps turned off at night. My snakes are doing great, so I'm keeping it like it is.
Like Jeff said, you have to find what's right for you & your snakes, basically.

[Jeff_Favelle]

There is an "ask the expert" forum. It exists in every tank in every home of the users of this site. Your SNAKE just so happens to be a snake expert!! That's the beauty of owning a snake. You can just go right to the source. I've been here since the beginning and not once have I seen a boa post a thread on ssnakess.com. I've seen a lot of mis-interpreted observations, a LOT of bad advice, and a LOT LOT LOT of silly questions. I've also seen a ton of great, keen observations that could help people that know how to use that data.

But the best source of info is your boa. Trust me. Its an expert on these things. They kind of have to be. 'Cause if not, they'd go extinct.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I've noticed my BCI is often active at night when the temps go down, I don't know what that means

Boas are NOCTURNAL. Nothing to do with your temperatures. They are active at NIGHT. Its what boas do.

[JaredAren]

I agree with giving choices as long as they are within the limits of what has been PROVEN to get the best results in captivity. Boas have been bred for a long time in captivity and a lot of the choices have been observed and documented. In this business success is dependent on good husbandry. Not many breeders are more succesful than Jeff Ronne and Rich Ihle. Both use UTH 24/7 except Ihle does turn his off during breeding season. He then allows his night time temps to go as low as 68 and his day time temps to get down to 78. This is only for a few months. Once the female has ovulated the heat is back on 24/7. Also the Barkers have tried to use outdoor cages for large pythons and in these cases some of the pythons have chosen to remain in near and below freezing temps which would be fatal to a python. So I agree and disagree with giving choices aboout heat. It may not kill a boa to have a large night time drop year round but in my opinion it is asking for trouble. So choices are good but getting facts from educated breeders in my opinion is better.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I would think that the choices that are given to the snake(s) regarding temperature extremes would fall within the range that they would find in the wild. Therefore, I found it unnecessary to state not to make the range -5F to 200F!! LOL! I thought it would be rather obvious, but then again.......I've seen stranger things here.

Yikes.

[MouseKilla]

I do realize that they are nocturnal however if their temps dropped low enough would they not cease to be active and go dormant? I haven't seen any posts from anyone claiming to physically be an actual boa though they would be a great help to us all I'm sure. Failing that though it would be nice to have a handy authority on the subject, someone who has done all the experimentation, you know, so I don't have to. haha. Call me lazy, I've been called worse. It would be nice though to be able to ask someone that we can be sure knows what they're talking about. It's nice to be able to compare notes with other keepers but that is not the same as getting reliable answers.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Failing that though it would be nice to have a handy authority on the subject, someone who has done all the experimentation, you know, so I don't have to.

The funny thing is, all boas are individuals. Not one in the same. Not created equal. Etc etc etc etc.

Also, the Bci complex has a HUGE range and covers a massive amount of not only land, but habitat and, more importantly, microhabitat. What works for one boa, may now be so good for your boa. That's why you follow the obvious guidlines of snake-keeping, and then watch your animal and go from there. Believe me, its the best part of animal-keeping. I mean, why the he!! else do you even have a snake if you don't want to take the time to observe the damn thing?

[reverendsterlin]

my trailer house which is an air sieve especially during winter can have an ambient temperature of 40-50F, the hot side of the boa enclosures seldom drop below about 82F. I've temp'd the cold side as low as 63F(6ft long enclosures) and the animals will thermoregulate to that end on a regular basis almost the same as when it stays 75 during the warmer months(a harder trick for me here in the desert)

[Invictus]

Something I observed with one of my BCI was that even though he had a good temp gradent in his cage, ranging from room temp on one side (around 74) to 92 under the heat lamp, he was not the least bit interested in the heat. I had hides on both sides, and he just preferred 74 degrees. So, in order to save money on heating, I turned his lamp off at night. I agree with Jeff in that observation is the key to expertise, but you won't become a BCI expert - only an expert on YOUR BCI. I have 5 now, and they are all very different with their own requirements.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I agree with Jeff in that observation is the key to expertise, but you won't become a BCI expert - only an expert on YOUR BCI.

That's perfect! Why would you need to be an expert on someone ELSE'S boa?

[hip]

Well I was gonna post here but it is all covered now
As always sanks Jeff for clearing it all up Do you have any little ones left?



Hip

[Jeff_Favelle]

Hip, my man, its down to the bone now. I love this time of year! Nothing to do!

[MouseKilla]

Don't get me wrong, I like learning new things about my snakes and snakes in general but I am willing to also try to learn from the mistakes of others and accept advice from those more experienced than I. Learning it first hand is cool sometimes but other times, especially with new keepers, it can mean you go through a few animals before you figure out what you're doing wrong. I remember when I first began collecting and didn't know too much about the animals and didn't know a single other person that did. I was buying baby snakes from pet stores, you know, the impossibly small corn snakes that haven't eaten or shed yet that you can find at any mall pet store. They don't tell you that it's often hard to find pinkies small enough for these little things to eat (especially when you have to rely on the same store for your feeders too). The kid working the cash register won't touch the snake let alone tell you about maybe needing to force feed a hatchling that small. The new herper has never heard of a pinky pump and you can't buy one at the dog and cat pet shop he's shopping in. It's a bloody mine field out there for people at that level of experience. They walk out of the store with $500 missing from their pocket (everyone needs a Harley Davidson leather jacket for their snake right? maybe a waterfall for the cage too) and an animal that is doomed. So the point is that observing your animals is fine and everyone should do it, it is part of the fun, but sometimes it would be nice to get some answers from someone more knowledgable than I am. Some people on here know a tonne about these animals, others seem to know F/A, most of us fall somewhere in between. What I'm talking about is maybe an established breeder or another very experienced keeper that could be consulted directly and could give reliable, general advice.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ok then, it goes back to your original question:

Just wondering if anyone knows the ideal range for BCIs night temperatures

Well, the ideal temperature range would be those temperatures in which the ectothermic boa needed at that particular time. Sometimes boas need 75F, sometimes they need 105F. It all depends upon what the boa is trying to accomplish. You see, they are at the mercy of their surroundings with regards to temperature. If the eat a big meal, they need to thermoregulate at a higher temperature than if they are getting prepared to ovulate, and a different temperature still when they are hunting. It all depends what your boa is doing.

And that's why you give your boa the gradient (ie. CHOICE) and watch what it does. It has internal mechanisms that tell it that its body needs to be this temperature or that temperature. Boas occupy a myriad of microclimes in the wild to accomplish their life's work. Don't be so naive as to think that you can provide a "magic" night time temperature that will substitute for that! LOL!

And I've bred them at 90F at night during cycling, and 65F at night during cycling. Hmmm........

[hip]

Word Mouse killa did you miss me? I know Jeff F did (cause there was no beer for him while I was away on bizz in the States). LOL
Here is what I am currently doing for 3 non related B.c.i 2 males one female. Male # 1 born 2003 Likes a cool end of about 78-80 (constant) and a hot spot of 88 or so(lots of trial and error) Male # 2 Born 2001 (7 feet or so now) prefers about 83-84 cool end and 90-92 hot spot (once again trial and error) Female also 2001 (over 7 feet I think need to measure) 80 cool end and 88 to 90 hot spot. I would say this is not typical of any Bci's you may have so you should observe what happens with yours and adjust temps accordingly to what your records indicate. I currently have 4-6 week shed cycles for the three above and drastic increases in size and weight from vet visit to vet visit(every 6 months or so ) With boa's you got to do your homework and keep notes. I would recomend that you have humidity in each enclosure based on shed records (with 50-70% being the norm) Boa's need some humidity for proper respratory health let alone shedding try 50% and adjust accordingly ( I have found 60% just about perfect over the years) Have fun Bro


Hip

[hip]

Damn Jeff bet me to it again curses on you Jeff lol





Hip

[MouseKilla]

hip,

Actually I did wonder what happened to you... I couldn't tell if you meant that you also don't have a night time drop. It seems to me if 90 degree temps are available in one part of the enclosure at all times then you don't really have any temperature difference between night and day. During the day, while the light is on in my BCI's enclosure there is a hotspot at around 90 and the cool end is around 78 or 80 which he seems to prefer. At night the whole cage drops to about 73-74. If the thing to do is always make heat available then I would have to give up the night time difference and provide a 24hr source of heat. That seems to be what you guys are saying, provide a range of temps at all hours. Is that right??

[Jeff_Favelle]

You need to make heat available at night! That is a GIVEN. Ever been to South America or Central America? I have. And its not 75F at night!! Its a LOT warmer. And that's where Boas live.

[MouseKilla]

That's what I was asking! Believe it or not I haven't been to South America so I haven't a clue what the temperatures are at night. It's clear now that you don't believe in a night drop in temperature, I've heard it's a good thing for them to have and that's why I asked. I wasn't aware that it's constantly 90 degrees and 80 in the shade in South America, call me ignorant. LOL!

[Jeff_Favelle]

I drop them at night this time of year for breeding. But if you are feeding and raising them up, heat is necessary 24 hours a day for thermoregulation.

And a TON of caresheets you read were written in the 70's when people knew JACK about keeping and breeding snakes.

I've heard it's a good thing for them to have and that's why I asked.

I can't see how it would be "good" for them. Not to say that its bad, but I don't see it increasing their well-being for any particular reason, LOL! Do you?

Its all about choice. Let the boa go to whatever temperature it wants to be at. Millions of years of evolution knows more about boa temperature than what you have read in crappy outdated caresheets.

So give the temperature range, and watch your boa! Its fun! They tell you all sorts of neat things about them. You just have to be willing to listen (watch).

[MouseKilla]

You mean yours don't actually speak to you? LOL! Mine do, they tell me to do stuff... like cleanse the city of sinners and stuff

[hip]

Well whatever you are smokin that allows you to converse with boa's get me some too man cause it sounds killer lol. Mk a drop of a degree or two at night is ok but sometimes it is not nessary like I said it is all trial and error (take some notes so you have a past reference It really does help man) Like Jeff said SA is smoking hot and humid then again so are the beaches in Rio lol (hmmm Christmas In Rio sounds good don't you think?)



Hip (thinking Christmas In Brazil)

[Jeff_Favelle]

Hip, Mousekilla, and Jeff taking a trip to Brazil........... Hmmmm....

What do they drink there? Rum? Corona? Its all good! :D

Hip, your avatar has GUNS!

[hip]

Sanks man!!!! Just imagine rum and thong clad bum and the three of us sounds like a movie title don't it ? Bet if we went they would never forget us ( one from the west one from the east and one from the middle) they would never forget Canada I bet!!!!!!! Then again we would probably be real drunk herping in the rain forest watching out for vipers and such of course(Jeff trying to smuggle some bush master's home in his pants) that would be a cool thing we could even get you laid Jeff Lol





Hip

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL!

Listening to old Soundgarden (Rusty Cage, Outshined, etc etc) all he way down on the plane???

Sounds like a plan to me!

[hip]

oh yeah man while you stare at me in your Jesus Christ pose need some deep purple and some sabbith in that mix too bro




Hip

[MouseKilla]

Have to hook up with uncle Pablo, he knows how to get things across the border.... we'll bring the Bushmasters back in kilos of coke lol!

[hip]

Hey I thought coke came in fluid ounces or you know like bottle or can I prefer pepsi myself there mouse killer from the shwa pm me and i will give you my numba so we can hit some beers man



Hip

[BoidKeeper]

Hip,

I enjoy each and every one of your post and replies I truely do! So aren't you proud of me now that I'm into the BCI game now too! I do need the perfect male though. Maybe you can hook me up some day soon!
As for my temps I copied the Sutherlands temps. When the sun comes up my room goes up to 85 DTH in summer. When the sun goes down the temp goes down to a NTL of 80. In winter my DTH is 80 and NTL of 75 some times a bit lower.
Cheers,
Trevor
PS
Hip I'm ashamed to admit that I'm hooked on Keith's Honey Brown Ale. Have you tried it yet?

[MouseKilla]

you get those temperatures with the sun? in new brunswick??? Couldn't be... unless you live in a giant aquarium... have to climb up on the roof once a day with the spray bottle...lol...anyone else ever have that dream? the one were the snakes are keeping you...?

[hip]

Wow Not to long ago Boid keeper told me Keiths beer was $hit It is very interesting how things change lol. I havent seen that here yet up here in the big smoke but if I do I will give it a shot. Hmmm seems keiths has finally lost thier inability to change with the times and become a bit more main stream. Lost your number trev send it to me again please I just might have something for you when the time is right.

Hip

[BoidKeeper]

Oh I'm not looking for anything to out of the ordinary just perfectly symmetrical pattern with saddles that are a little on the thin side. Oh and amazing colour, lots of pink. And how could I forget no speckling. The tail must be perfect and symmetrical all the way to the tip and the colour has to scream!
Think you can handle that,
Trevor

[hip]

Got you all hooked up right here right now if you got the bucks I can hook you up like I said I got connections I will give you a buzz.




Hip